Is this game good anymore? (Full Version)

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Gazzas -> Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 5:34:18 AM)

I used to play this game a long time ago... Recently I've come to the frame of mind where I need a game like this. But it looks like they've made it so that the Panzers can no longer make long marches and fight like they used to, and front line units don't get reinforcements like they used to.

So... does anyone really enjoy playing German anymore of is it just too much of a hassle?



xhoel -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:04:58 AM)

The game is still very good and continues to be the best Eastern Front simulator out there. There are issues yes, but none of them is "game-breaking".

I am playing the Germans in 1945 and am enjoying it!



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:10:14 AM)

My experience in this game is: 1 game as an Axis vs AI (100%) and 1 ongoing game as Axis vs rookie to a wite 2 and Soviets, but he has some experience with other games from this series.

I was enjoying playing vs AI. It was too passive, but overall it was fine.

Now the problem is that humans are smart creatures. And pretty quickly they will figure out the most effect way of doing anything.
This leads to a strategies such as abandoning the South in order to reinforce North and Center.
Also this leads to a huge 5mil + Red Army already in a first winter, as Axis can not create any pockets, except of the initial one.

There are also issues with armament/heavy industry/resources factories. Soviet player can give them for free. Not even bother clicking evacuate as they have plenty of this resources in the pool and face no deficit at all.
One more reason not to defend in the South where such factories are located.
Factories that produce chassis for airplanes/tanks are important. But the only one in real threat is Kharkov which can be quickly evacuated. Leningrad is also under threat if Axis is able to make a good progress towards it in the first few turns.

Lets talk about logistics.
Soviet logistic system is super overpowered which allows them to use supply priority 4 for a units and don't give a, khm khm, care about it. They can concentrate enormous amount of divisions in a little sector without a problems with supply/ammo.
Also I find it strange that Axis army total freight consumption is way higher than a Soviets one, despite Soviets having more men.
Axis infantry division consumes around 100 ton supplies per turn.
I made a quick test and looks like Soviet divisions is eating only 66 tons, (actually this Soviet division is at 128% TOE) so it consumes more that a usual one.
Maybe vodka is 50% of the ration and is coming for free, I don't know. But it is strange for me.

Initial panzers divisions are just a trash. You can not attack with them, you can not defend with them. But you can flip hexes.
Motorized divisions, even simple one, not SS, are much more better then a tanks, how is it possible?

Soviet players can concentrate enormous amount of tanks with huge TOE that they get in the start and purposely hunt for German panzers divisions, only panzers, not motorized one. As panzers are performing much worse in comparison to motorized one and it is almost impossible to refit panzer division on a front, while motorized division is reffitable.

Check this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5135309

Now when we are talking about reinforcements
In `41 it is pretty hard to refit your units if you are the Axis side, but not impossible.
North is a sector that has no problems with a supply. Especially if you manage to take Leningrad, then you can refit your units even during a blizzard.
Center is not so good. And you need to move your units back or use super depots.
South is a disaster in terms of logistics and without a super depot you can forget about anything more then 1k, 2k of freight.
In March or April `42 situations gets better, but overall freight distribution is still the same. No problems in a North, Center is ok, South is pretty bad.
Yet to see AAR where Stalingrad is under serious threat. I think it is due to a poor logistic there, but might be wrong.

Over all I have some questions to Axis logistics but it is acceptable. Soviet one is super strong.

Would I play as an Axis vs AI - yes.
Would I play vs Soviet player. If he tries to play historically, without running ASAP - yes. Versus a running one - no way. There is no sense.




Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:15:59 AM)

But as xoel said, it is great game, and with every patch it is getting better and better. One of my favorite games.



Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:34:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

My experience in this game is: 1 game as an Axis vs AI (100%) and 1 ongoing game as Axis vs rookie to a wite 2 and Soviets, but he has some experience with other games from this series.

I was enjoying playing vs AI. It was too passive, but overall it was fine.

Now the problem is that humans are smart creatures. And pretty quickly they will figure out the most effect way of doing anything.
This leads to a strategies such as abandoning the South in order to reinforce North and Center.
Also this leads to a huge 5mil + Red Army already in a first winter, as Axis can not create any pockets, except of the initial one.

There are also issues with armament/heavy industry/resources factories. Soviet player can give them for free. Not even bother clicking evacuate as they have plenty of this resources in the pool and face no deficit at all.
One more reason not to defend in the South where such factories are located.
Factories that produce chassis for airplanes/tanks are important. But the only one in real threat is Kharkov which can be quickly evacuated. Leningrad is also under threat if Axis is able to make a good progress towards it in the first few turns.

Lets talk about logistics.
Soviet logistic system is super overpowered which allows them to use supply priority 4 for a units and don't give a, khm khm, care about it. They can concentrate enormous amount of divisions in a little sector without a problems with supply/ammo.
Also I find it strange that Axis army total freight consumption is way higher than a Soviets one, despite Soviets having more men.
Axis infantry division consumes around 100 ton supplies per turn.
I made a quick test and looks like Soviet divisions is eating only 66 tons, (actually this Soviet division is at 128% TOE) so it consumes more that a usual one.
Maybe vodka is 50% of the ration and is coming for free, I don't know. But it is strange for me.

Initial panzers divisions are just a trash. You can not attack with them, you can not defend with them. But you can flip hexes.
Motorized divisions, even simple one, not SS, are much more better then a tanks, how is it possible?

Soviet players can concentrate enormous amount of tanks with huge TOE that they get in the start and purposely hunt for German panzers divisions, only panzers, not motorized one. As panzers are performing much worse in comparison to motorized one and it is almost impossible to refit panzer division on a front, while motorized division is reffitable.

Check this thread:


Now when we are talking about reinforcements
In `41 it is pretty hard to refit your units if you are the Axis side, but not impossible.
North is a sector that has no problems with a supply. Especially if you manage to take Leningrad, then you can refit your units even during a blizzard.
Center is not so good. And you need to move your units back or use super depots.
South is a disaster in terms of logistics and without a super depot you can forget about anything more then 1k, 2k of freight.
In March or April `42 situations gets better, but overall freight distribution is still the same. No problems in a North, Center is ok, South is pretty bad.
Yet to see AAR where Stalingrad is under serious threat. I think it is due to a poor logistic there, but might be wrong.

Over all I have some questions to Axis logistics but it is acceptable. Soviet one is super strong.

Would I play as an Axis vs AI - yes.
Would I play vs Soviet player. If he tries to play historically, without running ASAP - yes. Versus a running one - no way. There is no sense.



If the 1941 Panzer Divisions are that bad, then they have truly ruined this game.



Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:39:27 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

But as xoel said, it is great game, and with every patch it is getting better and better. One of my favorite games.


So when is the patch coming where replacements reach the front and the Panzer Divs of 1941 returned to the swords they really were?



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:45:49 AM)

I was surprised by myself. But I think there are few things to consider. On a paper t34 and obviously KV is much better than a German tanks.
But IRL there was no ammo/fuel/replacements. People had not enough training on this new machines. Also there was a chaos.
But in a game Soviet player does not have to deal with it.

No problems with ammo/fuel. No chaos. He can concentrate huge tank forces.

And during a battle there is no chance that panzers can survive such an attack. So a lot of panzers are destroyed and many more are left on a battlefield during retreat (it is actually very nice that we have such a mechanic in a game, really like it!)

So I can understand why panzers are suffering such losses in a battles with Soviet tanks, but it the same time I do not understand how motorized divisions can be better than a panzers?



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:52:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gazzas


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

But as xoel said, it is great game, and with every patch it is getting better and better. One of my favorite games.


So when is the patch coming where replacements reach the front and the Panzer Divs of 1941 returned to the swords they really were?

Replacement can reach a front, but without super depot in a center, south is it pretty hard to do in `41. In `41 there are additional penalties for Axis logistics. Check manual for more details.
But I think it is fine. I am able to refit 1,2 divisions even in the south, during a blizzard.

About pazners...
It depends if devs acknowledge that there are some problems with a panzers and if they have time (cuz there are other things that they are working on) to work on it.
There is no roadmap of what is planned. At least in a public access.



Lovenought -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 9:53:45 AM)

WITE2 is still pretty early in it's life-cycle, so balance is changing a fair amount. A few patches artillery was really powerful, so the Axis was vaporising everything, for example.

The nature of the game means it is hard to fine-tune balance quickly, either. Since the game has so many stages, and takes so long to play. Something that hurts the Germans in 1941 might really help them in 1944, so it actually all balances out over a full campaign. Stuff like that. So the devs like to see how their changes affect the whole war, not just the start of 1941.

So if you are looking at the game and something seems off, it'll probably change more to your liking eventually. I wouldn't write it off. This is not the "final state" of the game. The devs have not gone "this is how we want the game to be, we aren't changing it, tough luck."

As to the question though, I think Germans are still playable, although you do want the German player to be one rank above, I feel. So like an intermediate German vs novice Soviet, or Expert German vs intermediate Soviet.

People are winning games with the Axis. It can feel unfair playing them, but if you do well enough, eventually the Soviets will run low on manpower and can't progress fast enough to pass the victory checks. Both sides tend to lose a lot less men to encirclements or holding indefensible areas (because the moustache men aren't forcing us to do dumb things), which leaves the Soviets the task of blasting forwards against a full strength and well positioned German army turn after turn (and taking like 50-100k losses per turn, which eventually all adds up).



Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 10:20:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

I was surprised by myself. But I think there are few things to consider. On a paper t34 and obviously KV is much better than a German tanks.
But IRL there was no ammo/fuel/replacements. People had not enough training on this new machines. Also there was a chaos.
But in a game Soviet player does not have to deal with it.

No problems with ammo/fuel. No chaos. He can concentrate huge tank forces.

And during a battle there is no chance that panzers can survive such an attack. So a lot of panzers are destroyed and many more are left on a battlefield during retreat (it is actually very nice that we have such a mechanic in a game, really like it!)

So I can understand why panzers are suffering such losses in a battles with Soviet tanks, but it the same time I do not understand how motorized divisions can be better than a panzers?


Still too wrong to waste time and money on.



Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 10:29:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

Replacement can reach a front, but without super depot in a center,


Super Depots? Never had to worry about that before. Just more places to mess up in a game that already had a front so long that it still took an hour to do a PBEM turn.



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 10:36:37 AM)

"Still too wrong to waste time and money on."
Disagree. This is the only game that I am playing for multiple months due to a limited free time.

"Just more places to mess up in a game that already had a front so long that it still took an hour to do a PBEM turn."
One hour only? It takes 3-4 hours for me!



Nikel -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 10:57:25 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

My experience in this game is: 1 game as an Axis vs AI (100%) and 1 ongoing game as Axis vs rookie to a wite 2 and Soviets, but he has some experience with other games from this series.

I was enjoying playing vs AI. It was too passive, but overall it was fine.

Now the problem is that humans are smart creatures. And pretty quickly they will figure out the most effect way of doing anything.
This leads to a strategies such as abandoning the South in order to reinforce North and Center.
Also this leads to a huge 5mil + Red Army already in a first winter, as Axis can not create any pockets, except of the initial one.

There are also issues with armament/heavy industry/resources factories. Soviet player can give them for free. Not even bother clicking evacuate as they have plenty of this resources in the pool and face no deficit at all.
One more reason not to defend in the South where such factories are located.
Factories that produce chassis for airplanes/tanks are important. But the only one in real threat is Kharkov which can be quickly evacuated. Leningrad is also under threat if Axis is able to make a good progress towards it in the first few turns.

Lets talk about logistics.
Soviet logistic system is super overpowered which allows them to use supply priority 4 for a units and don't give a, khm khm, care about it. They can concentrate enormous amount of divisions in a little sector without a problems with supply/ammo.
Also I find it strange that Axis army total freight consumption is way higher than a Soviets one, despite Soviets having more men.
Axis infantry division consumes around 100 ton supplies per turn.
I made a quick test and looks like Soviet divisions is eating only 66 tons, (actually this Soviet division is at 128% TOE) so it consumes more that a usual one.
Maybe vodka is 50% of the ration and is coming for free, I don't know. But it is strange for me.

Initial panzers divisions are just a trash. You can not attack with them, you can not defend with them. But you can flip hexes.
Motorized divisions, even simple one, not SS, are much more better then a tanks, how is it possible?

Soviet players can concentrate enormous amount of tanks with huge TOE that they get in the start and purposely hunt for German panzers divisions, only panzers, not motorized one. As panzers are performing much worse in comparison to motorized one and it is almost impossible to refit panzer division on a front, while motorized division is reffitable.

Check this thread:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5135309

Now when we are talking about reinforcements
In `41 it is pretty hard to refit your units if you are the Axis side, but not impossible.
North is a sector that has no problems with a supply. Especially if you manage to take Leningrad, then you can refit your units even during a blizzard.
Center is not so good. And you need to move your units back or use super depots.
South is a disaster in terms of logistics and without a super depot you can forget about anything more then 1k, 2k of freight.
In March or April `42 situations gets better, but overall freight distribution is still the same. No problems in a North, Center is ok, South is pretty bad.
Yet to see AAR where Stalingrad is under serious threat. I think it is due to a poor logistic there, but might be wrong.

Over all I have some questions to Axis logistics but it is acceptable. Soviet one is super strong.

Would I play as an Axis vs AI - yes.
Would I play vs Soviet player. If he tries to play historically, without running ASAP - yes. Versus a running one - no way. There is no sense.




The "running away russian strategy" should be fixed, the commanders doing it should be considered as collaborationist and shot in the spot, completely unhistorical. Beria, where are you? [:D]

And if allowed, the soviet player should pay a very high price for it in factories and population evacuation.

Have the developers answered to those issues in the sense: nope, this is WAD, or the contrary, the game still needs balancing?

Regarding the poor Panzer units performance: the reason is known? is it related to TOE? or perhaps internal combat engine?



Jango32 -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:03:59 AM)

Battles that involve AFVs always seem to lead to high losses for German AFVs, even when fighting BTs or T-26s, if the Soviet superiority in numbers of AFVs is high enough. i.e. ~160 German AFVs (one Panzer division) will get slaughtered if battling 2 tank divisions in '41 that have most of their tanks.



Nikel -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:17:43 AM)

So it is a question of armor in early panzers or of firepower of early light russian tanks, or perhaps both.



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:27:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

So it is a question of armor in early panzers or of firepower of early light russian tanks, or perhaps both.

Soviets can concentrate enormous amount of AFVs early on.

Look at this: https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5135309&mpage=1&key=

1k tank. 500, 350.

No way Axis tanks can handle it.

From a game engine side it works fine. From a balance point of view I don't think it should be possible to have so many tanks in one place early on.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel
Have the developers answered to those issues in the sense: nope, this is WAD, or the contrary, the game still needs balancing?

I saw no answer. But I am sure they are reading such topics.



actrade -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:37:20 AM)

If played correctly, I have no issues with AFV losses, especially pre-winter 1941. The truth of the matter is that in 1941, German panzers in today's terms would have filled the role of armored cavalry more than MBTs. Remember, most German infantry and supply was still largely on foot/horse drawn so the job of the panzers was encirclement until the infantry arrived and could crush the encircled units. I think the Combat Prep Points system mirrors this very, very well. It is the first WW2 game where I've had to really stop and think "do I really need/want to move this unit" as prior games I used my panzers to run roughshod with no thought to the real world issue that simply moving them is going to lead to attrition/breakdowns and fuel/logistics options. With this in mind, I rarely use my panzers to attack and if I do, it is always as part of a larger force that includes infantry. Violate this principal and you'll see 10-20% losses in a single engagement, something that is difficult to replace and bounce back from.



Jango32 -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:42:09 AM)

You will see 50% or more losses in a single engagement especially when defending, not 10 to 20%.

German motorized infantry divisions though are absolute tank killers and suffer few casualties of their own, despite being smaller divisions than Panzer divisions and not having organic AFVs in their TOE...



Stamb -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:45:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: actrade

If played correctly, I have no issues with AFV losses, especially pre-winter 1941. The truth of the matter is that in 1941, German panzers in today's terms would have filled the role of armored cavalry more than MBTs. Remember, most German infantry and supply was still largely on foot/horse drawn so the job of the panzers was encirclement until the infantry arrived and could crush the encircled units. I think the Combat Prep Points system mirrors this very, very well. It is the first WW2 game where I've had to really stop and think "do I really need/want to move this unit" as prior games I used my panzers to run roughshod with no thought to the real world issue that simply moving them is going to lead to attrition/breakdowns and fuel/logistics options. With this in mind, I rarely use my panzers to attack and if I do, it is always as part of a larger force that includes infantry. Violate this principal and you'll see 10-20% losses in a single engagement, something that is difficult to replace and bounce back from.

Agree. The problem is here: "Remember, most German infantry and supply was still largely on foot/horse drawn so the job of the panzers was encirclement until the infantry arrived and could crush the encircled units."
Pocket will not hold as panzers and especially panzer regiments are almost useless as Rumanians, but not so bad, in defense.

As a result:
infantry is behind
motorized divisions are needed to make a breakthrough because you do not want to fight with a panzers as they get trashed vs Soviet armor/mech divisions
motorized divisions are also needed to hold a pocket

As a result - there is no job for panzers where they are good at it, except of hex flipping.

My fantasy for a quick fix from this topic:
https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=5144537

quote:

If you are going to then I would propose to replace on map Panzer divisions with motorized units which TOE is going to upgrade to a panzer division in May `42 or whenever it is happening. In that way we can avoid useless tanks in `41. And it `42 it is a little bit better.



AlbertN -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 12:08:46 PM)

In general grand strategy games need time to get 'fixed' from their release.
That goes through Player vs Player matches because that is where most of the issues rise (Player vs AI tune the AI pretty much).

It depends what you expect out of the game that allows you to determine if it is good or not.



Cavalry Corp -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 12:24:04 PM)

There is a lot to like about this game and I am liking it more and more but the tanks isuue is also starting to bug me....

My main issue is lack of mobility of Panzers ( 42) as I cannot get trucks into the units - If they have 50 mp they are still very dangerous (in terms of encirclements).Most Panzers on my map have 30 MP some less a few more - I have no idea why some units have the rucks and others do not.

Maybe low exp tank crews should receive a debit on firing or high exp get a better defence. OK Germany had fairly weak tanks in 41 but I cannot imagine they did not tackle Soviet Armour head on when the need arises - in this game if at all possible I use an infantry Division - that seems wrong.




Beethoven1 -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 1:43:04 PM)

It is the best game out there as compared to any remotely similar sort of game. It is not perfect of course, but then again nothing is, and it gets progressively better over time with new patches. The devs are also working on the editor so if there is something in particular you don't like about your game, you can change a lot of things to suit your taste.



Zovs -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 1:46:11 PM)

First of all yes of course this game is still good, that is a silly question. This game is by far the most comprehensive, complex, and detailed operational East Front game out there, hands down bar none.

Secondly, there are some minor issues that need refinement but none are game breaking.

Thirdly, most of the posts on this thread seem to indicate incorrect German panzer and motorized usage. I see nothing wrong with using infantry and motorized division to slice a hole in a line so that motorized and tank units can exploit and encircle positions. You can’t use a single panzer division in isolation and attack a post turn 3 position, there is a better and more effective way to do a hasty attack with a panzer corps in one hex if need be or to move a position so that other panzer corps can exploit and encircle. You can’t expect single panzer divisions (let alone isolated regiments, don’t forgot this is a division level game) to obliterate all before them. You have to think combined arms or operating as panzer corps and use the other tools such as CPP and mobility. It appears to me too many are thinking in singular terms not in threes which in general is how most panzer corps are configured.

So my summation is your using your tools wrong.



kahta -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 3:11:19 PM)

Yes, this is a great game.

It is not something that can be absorbed in 15 minutes. A campaign can take 3-4 months of playing every night. There is nothing wrong with that.



Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 7:35:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikel

So it is a question of armor in early panzers or of firepower of early light russian tanks, or perhaps both.


The Soviet tanks are obviously over valued. No radios. Crappy optics. Inexperienced crews. Crews fighting with the hatches locked tight which ruined their situational awareness.

The T-34 is the most destroyed tank in history. And that is because, excluding mobility, There is nothing special about it. Sloping armor that is still relatively thin. A gun which isn't overly powerful until the t-34/85 arrives. But it was a threat and had to be destroyed.

The most important man in the Soviet tank is the driver. His job is to deliver his crew and vehicle into the jaws of death. He and others are there to use up German ammo so that the rest can hopefully break through. Tens of thousands were smashed on the battlefield through all causes.

What someone is failing to see is that in 1941, is that the Red Army was crap. Officer purges had bled it of effective leadership. Look what the Finns did to it during the Winter War, for Pete's sake. It was meant to bleed and die. It's only virtue was that there was enough of it to do so, and still be there to continue the fight.

It should be difficult for the Soviets to save Moscow. Hitler made some grievous errors altering the advance of the Panzer forces.

There's always gonna be that guy playing the Soviets who does every gamey trick to exploit the system. It just seems that in this version of the game, he has even more to exploit.

Then, when I'm playing the Soviets, there will always be that opponent who withdraws his army 10-12 hexes just before the blizzard sets in.

I've seen it before.




Gazzas -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 7:37:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stamb

"Still too wrong to waste time and money on."
Disagree. This is the only game that I am playing for multiple months due to a limited free time.

"Just more places to mess up in a game that already had a front so long that it still took an hour to do a PBEM turn."
One hour only? It takes 3-4 hours for me!



3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day.



PeteJC -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 10:03:12 PM)

I have been playing wargames for over 45 years and I would put this at the very top of the list. While I agree with Stambs comments I suspect the "advantages" given to the Soviet side are WAD to compensate for an AI generated defense. There are no companies (don't get me started about HOI) that have figured out how to create a defensive AI at the operational & strategic level that can come close to even an average human player. That is even assuming the player does not take advantage of various rules or historic hindsight.

With that said, you will need to invest a lot of time in this game. Further, even after doing so you will rarely win in '41. Which is obviously historically accurate even if Guderian did not turn south in August and this and that. A well modeled and programmed Eastern Front game should be nearly impossible for the Germans to win in '41 and VERY hard to win later.



homer82 -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/12/2022 11:34:36 PM)

"If the 1941 Panzer Divisions are that bad, then they have truly ruined this game."
"So when is the patch coming where replacements reach the front and the Panzer Divs of 1941 returned to the swords they really were?"
"Still too wrong to waste time and money on."
"3-4 hours? Hell, I still have a full-time job and a wife. I don't have 3-4 hours every day."

I think you've answered your own question.



PeteJC -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/13/2022 12:55:37 AM)

It is more a time commitment then the first two points. The panzer divisions are still very strong from a practical sense IF you are playing the AI. The issue is when playing against a human. For example, when playing against the AI as German in 1941 all you have to do is not attack the Soviet tank divisions or mech divisions it is actually very easy to do while still achieving your encirclements and advancing at a historical pace. Not see (if not impossible) against a human. Also, if two human players re playing against each other they could agree on adjusting the Soviet logistics down under Game Options. I assume they can. I have never played a human vs. human scenario but I am assuming those options can still apply.



RedJohn -> RE: Is this game good anymore? (2/13/2022 1:26:27 AM)

The issue with settings is, and correct me if I'm wrong, they last the entire game. We could set soviet logistics to 80 or 90, and that might do a lot. But 4 years later when it's their time to push past Minsk, the period where ostensibly their logistics begin to start facing issues, what impact will that game setting have?




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