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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail hexes

 
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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/10/2022 10:59:37 PM   
Joel Billings


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Thanks for added info. I spoke with Gary and he said the code shows that it should be 5 hexes. In order to figure out why that is not working, I need a save before the German logistics phase where the units go out too far. Best would be a Soviet pre-log save just before the logistics phase where I can load it and rerun the logistics phase and see it send a unit too far. If you see this in an MP game at the start of your turn, please save off and post here and PM me and I'll go download the most recent files. Don't continue with your game until I let you know I've got the saves. If anyone sees this in a solo game, please attach the prelog Soviet turn (or start of Soviet turn if you don't have a prelog save) and tell me what unit to look for. Would be great if you rerun it from your save to see if it repeats (that's for bonus points). Thanks.

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 4:03:58 PM   
Stamb

 

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Check my save, same problem. XXVII corps if I am not mistaken. Near Kursk/Orel. Let me know when you get a save!

Server game vs Lovenought

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 5:52:27 PM   
Joel Billings


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The saves show that at the end of German turn 27 the unit that is 9 hexes away from XXVII is in a hex with 4% damage. Another is 10 hexes away with 1% damage (finished repair/waiting for next phase to flip to working). On turn 28 the unit that is in the 1% hex returns to the HQ and the units in that HQ go to hexes within 5 hexes. The unit 9 hexes away stays in the hex 9 hexes away to finish the job. If units remain automatically no matter the range, than this won't be useful since the unit is already too far and I don't have a save before it first went out that far. I'll ask Gary, but if in fact the unit is allowed to stay on the map even when over 5, I'm going to need another case of a unit going out too far. Was it possible that on turn 26 the HQ started closer to those hexes and the units were already out on the map doing repair work when the HQ then moved further away? Probably not likely, that it would take 3 turns for a repair, but got to ask.

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Post #: 33
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 5:56:28 PM   
Joel Billings


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Just confirmed that once out on the map, it will remain even if over range, so I need another case of a unit when it first goes to the map where I can get Soviet and Axis saves (before and after). Let me know if you see another case and I'll download the saves as soon as I can.

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 6:01:23 PM   
Stamb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
Was it possible that on turn 26 the HQ started closer to those hexes and the units were already out on the map doing repair work when the HQ then moved further away? Probably not likely, that it would take 3 turns for a repair, but got to ask.

I don't think so. I would never move my corps HQ to a Kursk, where those 2 units were, as I no need rail line there.
But it might be possible that some RAD units were assigned to an army, then I move corps HQ closer to this RAD units, reassign RAD units to this corps HQ (as I can not do it from a longer range), press undo to move corps HQ where it was.
But I am not sure that I did it. I don't remember.

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 6:02:27 PM   
Stamb

 

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It is safe to click "RETURN TO HQ" on a RAD unit, or it damages RAD unit elements?

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/11/2022 8:05:09 PM   
Joel Billings


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Return to HQ should not harm the unit in any way.

_____________________________

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/12/2022 5:28:08 PM   
Beethoven1

 

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I think I have another case of this same problem.

At the start of Axis turn 7, XXIII corps on hex 196, 118 should have sent out a RAD to repair hex 192, 120, which was the only repairable hex in range of the HQ. The corps had only one RAD (K376 R.A.D. Labor Detachment).

However, it did not send the RAD out anywhere.

Here are saves -

Start of Soviet turn 5 - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896681780227231744/926952399787130920/G3_Soviet_T005.psv

Start of Axis turn 6 - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896681780227231744/930904714114138182/G3_Sov_Done_T005.psv

END of Axis turn 6 before processing the turn. In this save, the RAD is assigned to the HQ. The RAD is on hex 180, 120, and is marked with "return to HQ" to the HQ which is on hex 196, 118. - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/939283895394910298/942124304097738833/T6Checked.psv

Start of Soviet turn 6 - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896681780227231744/934947114029547570/G3_Soviet_T006.psv

Start of Axis turn 7 - https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/896681780227231744/942046969394757652/G3_Sov_Done_006.psv

Sorry for the inconsistent naming convention, it is a team game and people are not coordinating save names as well as ideal :(

Are these the saves you need? (if you need others, there are others also)

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Post #: 38
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/12/2022 7:08:08 PM   
Denniss

 

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I believe Dominic fixed a lot of rail repair code in WitE 1, may be worth a look for Pavel

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/12/2022 7:22:12 PM   
Nikel

 

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Is Dominik still part of the team?

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/12/2022 8:11:41 PM   
Hardradi


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I have seen many times where the RADs do not deploy when they could have. Also have PBEM saves to support this.

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/13/2022 6:13:55 PM   
Joel Billings


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Stamb, I've PMed you re your latest report/save.

Beethoven1, I've been swamped with difficult to investigate bugs over the past few days while working to get a version to testers (sent one to them yesterday with a few fixes). I will get to your saves eventually but have some catching up to do.

Hardradi, what I need for reports are before and after saves. For auto rail repair that happens in the logistics phase, I need a save at the end of the enemy player's turn (pre-log save if available, or a save the player makes just before he ends his turn). I also need to save at the start of your turn which allows me to see the result of the logistics phase. If I have both, I can rerun from the pre save and hopefully figure out what happened. The last time I had a situation with a pre-save I was able to see something that repeated exactly from the pre-save re rail repair units going on the map. There was not randomness in that case (4 CBs did exactly the same thing in the rerun). It's not 100% clear to me though that there is no randomness here. Some parts of it have no randomness, while I suspect that other factors that do have randomness can come into play in some cases. The less the randomness the easier it is for us to figure out what is going on. So for those playing PBEM games that want to be in the best position to help us investigate issues, both players should make a habit of saving just before they end their turn. I don't need passwords from the players as I have a way to go around that, so I just need to get the pre and post saves. One thing I will say is that if you have a shortage of freight/supplies in an area, this can prevent rail repair as it does take supplies to conduct rail repairs. This usually isn't a problem, but in Stamb's case he is in first-winter and it could be a factor in his unit not finishing the job (I don't know that for a fact, just speculating, but does not explain how the CB got 9 hexes from the HQ which is a different issue).

Nikel, as for Dominik, he was always a volunteer who spent countless hours as a labor of love to support WitE1. We were very lucky to have him continue to work on WitE1 long after normal support would have ceased. While we would have supported Dominik's continued work on WitE1 (Pavel creates the official exe once Dominik and Dennis had them ready to go), Dominik had wound down his time on WitE1 with an eye to wrapping up his work around the time WitE2 was released. The code base for WitE2 was long ago separated from WitE1 (back before WitW was released), so many of the changes in WitE1 had no relevance for WitE2. It was impossible for us to easily move changes that Dominik made to WitW/WitE2. Dominik was more interested in working on WitE1 than getting involved with WitW and WitE2 so they really became quite separate games. Many parts of the code were so completely rewritten by WitE2 that there was no direct comparison. We picked up on some of Dominik's new features, but they all had to be coded anew for WitW and/or WitE2, and it was not efficient to try to figure out his code changes when making changes in the newer games. I can't say if Dominik is 100% done with his involvement with us as only he can say that, but either way, we are very thankful that he spent the time he did on WitE1.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Stamb)
Post #: 42
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/13/2022 6:43:03 PM   
Stamb

 

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Lack of supply is a good assumption why RAD units do not repair hexes in one go. I noticed that only during winter. There are no such problems during any other seasons.

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Post #: 43
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/13/2022 8:49:56 PM   
Nikel

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings


Nikel, as for Dominik, he was always a volunteer who spent countless hours as a labor of love to support WitE1. We were very lucky to have him continue to work on WitE1 long after normal support would have ceased. While we would have supported Dominik's continued work on WitE1 (Pavel creates the official exe once Dominik and Dennis had them ready to go), Dominik had wound down his time on WitE1 with an eye to wrapping up his work around the time WitE2 was released. The code base for WitE2 was long ago separated from WitE1 (back before WitW was released), so many of the changes in WitE1 had no relevance for WitE2. It was impossible for us to easily move changes that Dominik made to WitW/WitE2. Dominik was more interested in working on WitE1 than getting involved with WitW and WitE2 so they really became quite separate games. Many parts of the code were so completely rewritten by WitE2 that there was no direct comparison. We picked up on some of Dominik's new features, but they all had to be coded anew for WitW and/or WitE2, and it was not efficient to try to figure out his code changes when making changes in the newer games. I can't say if Dominik is 100% done with his involvement with us as only he can say that, but either way, we are very thankful that he spent the time he did on WitE1.



Thanks for the detailed answer.

I read some time ago he had been ill, so perhaps is the reason he is absent? I hope he is feeling better now.

Indeed is very important to have volunteers involved when the developers have to move on to the next game and have no time to support the previous. I saw it many times in Ageod and is sad. You are indeed lucky



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Post #: 44
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/13/2022 10:38:14 PM   
Hardradi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hardradi, what I need for reports are before and after saves. For auto rail repair that happens in the logistics phase, I need a save at the end of the enemy player's turn (pre-log save if available, or a save the player makes just before he ends his turn). I also need to save at the start of your turn which allows me to see the result of the logistics phase. If I have both, I can rerun from the pre save and hopefully figure out what happened. The last time I had a situation with a pre-save I was able to see something that repeated exactly from the pre-save re rail repair units going on the map. There was not randomness in that case (4 CBs did exactly the same thing in the rerun). It's not 100% clear to me though that there is no randomness here. Some parts of it have no randomness, while I suspect that other factors that do have randomness can come into play in some cases. The less the randomness the easier it is for us to figure out what is going on. So for those playing PBEM games that want to be in the best position to help us investigate issues, both players should make a habit of saving just before they end their turn. I don't need passwords from the players as I have a way to go around that, so I just need to get the pre and post saves. One thing I will say is that if you have a shortage of freight/supplies in an area, this can prevent rail repair as it does take supplies to conduct rail repairs. This usually isn't a problem, but in Stamb's case he is in first-winter and it could be a factor in his unit not finishing the job (I don't know that for a fact, just speculating, but does not explain how the CB got 9 hexes from the HQ which is a different issue).


I am pretty sure supply was fine in these situations. It certainly wasnt winter. I will dig them up over the next few days and email through three groups of two files.

Thanks



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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/16/2022 8:56:39 PM   
Stamb

 

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I think I mentioned this before in this thread but here I have good example that corps RAD units + rum. rail repair units should go to a map at the highest priority. Then army. Then army group. Then OKH.

Right now 1 unit from a corps is unused because all available hexes for repairment are already taken. And RAD units with arrows from army group are blocking corps HQ units from deployment.






Attachment (1)

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/21/2022 2:03:08 PM   
Stamb

 

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Joel you can check 11th army rum rail repair unit, again > 15 hexes deployment.

Server game vs Lovenought

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/21/2022 6:28:36 PM   
Joel Billings


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Once again, that unit was already repairing that hex during the prior turn, so once out would stay there. I see that unit was in AGS about 7 turns ago in your game. Did you specifically move that unit to 11th Army at some point, or did it get relocated by the auto system that relocates construction units even when HQs are locked?


Hardradi, did you ever send saves?

Beethoven1, the lack of supplies in the area is probably the reason the unit didn't go to the hex on turn 7. Finding something that didn't happen is harder than finding why something did, but I will put a save up that I created from you saves for Gary to look at if he thinks he can figure out why it's not happening.



For future reference, the save we need is just before the German logistics phase starts (for German CBs). In an AI game, that is the prelog save for the Soviet turn. For PBEM games, that would be a save a player made, just before he pressed end phase for his movement phase. Working from a start of Soviet turn save, or end of German turn save takes longer to run and doesn't exactly repeat the situation as it existed at the start of the next German logistics phase. I realize that not everyone creates these saves.

As an aside, we did not intend to have these independent CBs be used for fine tuning on rail repair. I realize that players have managed to improve their use, over and above our intended function for them, and would like them to be even more targeted. We saw them simply as a way to fill in the full rail network over time. Trying to make them even more effective at focused repair is not in our plans. If there's a bug we can identify, repeat, and fix, we'll do it, but we're not going to intentionally make it easier to use them in a focused way.



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All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/21/2022 8:27:47 PM   
Hardradi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Hardradi, did you ever send saves?



I found one, another one was probably ok, I just need to track down the third one.

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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/21/2022 9:04:59 PM   
Stamb

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Once again, that unit was already repairing that hex during the prior turn, so once out would stay there. I see that unit was in AGS about 7 turns ago in your game. Did you specifically move that unit to 11th Army at some point, or did it get relocated by the auto system that relocates construction units even when HQs are locked?
...

I assign RAD units myself. I never faced auto resigning. All HQs support is locked. I did some reassigning in the previous turn and added units to 11th army

< Message edited by Stamb -- 2/21/2022 9:06:25 PM >


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RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/22/2022 1:37:16 AM   
Hardradi


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Ok, I have tracked down three separate instances.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

For future reference, the save we need is just before the German logistics phase starts (for German CBs). In an AI game, that is the prelog save for the Soviet turn. For PBEM games, that would be a save a player made, just before he pressed end phase for his movement phase. Working from a start of Soviet turn save, or end of German turn save takes longer to run and doesn't exactly repeat the situation as it existed at the start of the next German logistics phase. I realize that not everyone creates these saves.



This is a little bit confusing. The saves are from PBEM, I should have access to all of the saves from both sides. I am on the Axis side, when I open turn 19 XXXV Corps has one RAD, it did not deploy in turn 19. There are four hexes in range that it could have deployed to.

Do you want the last Axis save from turn 18 or the last Soviet save from turn 18?


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Post #: 51
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/22/2022 4:29:52 AM   
Joel Billings


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Ok, forgot that locking can prevent the construction units from moving (seems like it didn't work that way in the past, but I could be confused with earlier games).

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All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

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Post #: 52
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/22/2022 4:39:08 AM   
Joel Billings


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In a PBEM game, what I really need is a save by the Soviet player before he ends his turn. That's because the German logistics phase is resolved after he presses end turn and before he creates the final save to send to his opponent, So a start of German save only shows me where the unit didn't go, but doesn't allow me to rerun the German logistics phase. If I get a start of the Soviet turn save, then things the Soviet player did could cause changes in the conditions and impact the German logistics phase (can cause supplies to be expended in defense, for example). So only by having a save before the Soviet player ended his turn am I likely to be able to duplicate the problem as it existed. Now if that's not available, then I can try with the Soviet start of turn save. So in your case that would be the Soviet start of turn 18. For this reason, it helps if PBEM players create a save just before they press end phase on their movement phase, but I understand that's asking a lot as it takes time and clogs up your save directory. Players playing the AI need only turn on auto save and pre-logistics auto saves in preferernces and they will automatically create all the saves needed.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

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Post #: 53
RE: R.A.D (and similar) units not going to repair rail ... - 2/22/2022 6:08:27 AM   
Hardradi


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Got it. The best save files I can gather have been sent by email.

Hope it helps.

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Post #: 54
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