Save your crews

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Save your crews

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> Save your crews

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Save your crews - 5/21/2000 10:08:00 PM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

Ok, maybe no one thought of this, but here is a temporary solution to the extra crew problem. Go into the oob editor and make 3 units. One a tank unit, one a mortar unit, and one a halftrack unit. Make sure they are all 0 cost and available from 1930-1949. Name them something like 'crew fix' or whatever you want. Now whenever you get the upgrade screen in the campaign, change all your destroyed units into one of these and the veteran crews will be back in their vehicles. From there just change them into their original unit. It costs twice as much to do this as opposed to just fixing them, so make sure you are doing this only to units that possibly have their crew still alive. Something else to remember is not to buy these things when you are buying units because they will show up in the formations. Of course, you could do that, but thats up to you.

_____________________________

Post #: 1

- 5/22/2000 12:39:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Pretty neat idea, DF! So it worked okay for you?...WB ------------------ Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 2

- 5/22/2000 10:41:00 PM

Arralen

Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline

There seems to be a real easy solution to the "leftover crew" problem - just do not fix the vehicle but change it to an existing unit of same type .. the crew goes away instantly. Sadly, if I sorted it out right, the experience goes with it .. but at least you'll get rid of these units without dealing with the OOB. Arralen [This message has been edited by Arralen (edited 05-22-2000).]

_____________________________

AMD FX-4300
Gigabyte 970A-DS3P
Kingston 24GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800)
Asus GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5
Seagate Barracuda SATA III 1TB
Windows 8.1

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 3

- 5/23/2000 12:27:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Arralen: There seems to be a real easy solution to the "leftover crew" problem - just do not fix the vehicle but change it to an existing unit of same type .. the crew goes away instantly. Sadly, if I sorted it out right, the experience goes with it .. but at least you'll get rid of these units without dealing with the OOB.

Did you read what I wrote, man? I said exactly the same thing. Yeah you can change them to a cheap light tank then buy your heavy tank again, but its much cheaper to go in and make 3 new units that cost 0, that way it costs the price of the original vehicle to get your elite crew back in the tank. As far as I know, the experience does not disappear, though there are small penalties for changing crews to new vehicles. However, the commander does not change, and he keeps all his kills, and considering that most of the time the crew left over is not a complete crew, they would have to get some replacements which would make the average experience drop anyways. Yeah, if you don't want to mess with the oobs then you can still keep your experienced crews, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper to do it my way.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 4

- 5/23/2000 4:32:00 AM

Host26

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/18/2000
From: Paris
Status: offline

> Yeah you can change them to a cheap light > tank then buy your heavy tank again How do you change a crew to a cheap light tank? Everytime I click on a crew to change it, all I can choose from is various infantry units, like the crew never rode a tank...

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 5

- 5/23/2000 6:42:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Host26: How do you change a crew to a cheap light tank? Everytime I click on a crew to change it, all I can choose from is various infantry units, like the crew never rode a tank...

You can't change the crew to a tank, you have to change the destroyed tank to a different type of tank. I suggest making a 0 cost one in the editor so that you can change your best tanks back into themselves at minimum cost.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 6

- 5/23/2000 10:34:00 AM

Pack Rat

Posts: 594
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: north central Pennsylvania USA
Status: offline

How do you keep up with and keep striaght all the new tanks you'll have to make as you upgrade ? Will these show up in the buy screen for other battles you might play? At some point you'll want to get rid of them right? ------------------ Good hunting, Pack Rat

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 7

- 5/23/2000 7:14:00 PM

Arralen

Posts: 827
Joined: 5/21/2000
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Desert Fox: Did you read what I wrote, man?.. Yeah, if you don't want to mess with the oobs then you can still keep your experienced crews, but it is a heck of a lot cheaper to do it my way.

Sorry, I didn't read it properly - at first. But you didn't read mine properly either - I suggested changing the unit to another type - not necessarily a cheaper one. Just take care that only our obsolete tanks get shot :-) Furthermore, many people wouldn't like to mess with the OOB, so I found it worthwhile to say that there's a way to do it without creating extra vehicles! ..but I'll make those "recreational tanks" myself, shurely :-) Arralen

_____________________________

AMD FX-4300
Gigabyte 970A-DS3P
Kingston 24GB DDR3-1600 (PC3-12800)
Asus GTX 750 Ti OC 2GB GDDR5
Seagate Barracuda SATA III 1TB
Windows 8.1

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 8

- 5/23/2000 10:01:00 PM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Pack Rat: How do you keep up with and keep striaght all the new tanks you'll have to make as you upgrade ? Will these show up in the buy screen for other battles you might play? At some point you'll want to get rid of them right?

Well, they do show up in buy screens, but if you buy them, thats your own thing. You only have to make 3 units, one armor, one artillery, and one halftrack, to take care of all crew possibilities. You can stick them in any oob you want since you can buy units from different countries when you upgrade units. After a campaign battle, if you see vehicle crews in your upgrade screen, then you just upgrade your destroyed armor to the appropriate 0 cost unit that you created to get the experienced crews back in their vehicles. After that, you buy them a real tank/mortar/halftrack so they can actually start fighting again. The units I create for this purpose are all named 'crew fix'. They cost 0 and have no armor or weapons. They are simply there to salvage the crews, nothing more. You do not create 0 cost shermans and T-34s, just these 0 cost units with no stats. I am not gonna delete them until they actually fix the crew bug.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 9

- 5/23/2000 10:22:00 PM

renwor

Posts: 118
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: czech republic
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Desert Fox: Well, they do show up in buy screens, but if you buy them, thats your own thing. The units I create for this purpose are all named 'crew fix'. They cost 0 and have no armor or weapons. They are simply there to salvage the crews, nothing more. You do not create 0 cost shermans and T-34s, just these 0 cost units with no stats. I am not gonna delete them until they actually fix the crew bug.

looks good, but I smell a problem here. If you leave them there if AI sometimes gets to buing units of that country wouldn't you end up against infinite number of zero cost worthless units? Given infinite amount of time ammo track and sniper you may still win, but would it be any fun? Renwor

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 10

- 5/24/2000 12:09:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by renwor: looks good, but I smell a problem here. If you leave them there if AI sometimes gets to buing units of that country wouldn't you end up against infinite number of zero cost worthless units? Given infinite amount of time ammo track and sniper you may still win, but would it be any fun? Renwor

Yes this is all true, and in all honesty, I have not tried to fight the AI and see if they pick those units. Its possible it would pick those units, but based on the unit limit alone, you would never encounter an infinite number. There of course would be plenty of infantry as well. However, you will not be using this feature if you do not play campaigns. And the whole point is that you can put these guys in any available oob to make life easy and keep from cluttering the already huge german and US oobs. I am pretty sure there are also some unit subclasses that the AI will never buy, so there may be some options to set these units to those subclasses. I will test it out vs the AI and see if it buys these things, though. Hopefully I can redefine these units to even more selective options that the AI won't buy.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 11

- 5/24/2000 4:10:00 AM

Host26

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/18/2000
From: Paris
Status: offline

Sorry Desert Fox, I must be too dumb, I still can't figure out how to do that. For example I have units c0-C5 equipped with PzIIs. During the last battle I lost C5 and had C2 damaged. In the 're-equip' screen I have got C0-C4 listed, C2 having 10 damage points and C5 as 'crewmen'. When I click on 'crewmen' to change, I have a choice of inf units. If I click on any non-damaged PzII to change, I change the tank type of said unit but the crewmen stay 'crewmen'. If I change the damaged PzII to say a PzIII the crewmen simply disappear. I thought the idea was to keep the crewmen and their experience? Also, how can add _one_ tank to a formation? They only come in platoons at least...

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 12

- 5/24/2000 5:15:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Host26: Sorry Desert Fox, I must be too dumb, I still can't figure out how to do that. For example I have units c0-C5 equipped with PzIIs. During the last battle I lost C5 and had C2 damaged. In the 're-equip' screen I have got C0-C4 listed, C2 having 10 damage points and C5 as 'crewmen'. When I click on 'crewmen' to change, I have a choice of inf units. If I click on any non-damaged PzII to change, I change the tank type of said unit but the crewmen stay 'crewmen'. If I change the damaged PzII to say a PzIII the crewmen simply disappear. I thought the idea was to keep the crewmen and their experience? Also, how can add _one_ tank to a formation? They only come in platoons at least...

Well, easy question first, you can't add one tank to your formations unless they come in singles. Not many do. Your best bet is to buy sections which are usually pairs. You also cannot add a tank to your list unless it is during the original selection of your core units. You can switch the HQ unit of one tank to a different formation, and that is done in the deployment phase. Thats not really important except for organization and C&C. Now, I think you don't realize what is happening when you change that destroyed unit. Changing that unit will put the original crew back into a tank. Check this next time before the end of a battle. Find a crew standing around, note what formation they are from, their experience, their commander, and their kills. After the battle, when you change their destroyed ride into a new unit, they will disappear from the list and jump into their new ride. Check at the next battle, they should have the same amount of kills, roughly the same experience, and unless he was changed, the same commander. Experience will likely go down for giving them an unfamiliar piece of equipment, at least I think that is how it works, but that will happen any time you change a unit to a different one. If, instead of changing that Pz 2 to a Pz 3, you 'fix' the Pz 2, then the crew will not get back in the tank and instead a new crew will man it. The experienced crew gets to sit on their butts until you destroy them by attaching them to the A0 unit or until you change them to infantry. Now, lets say you have a destroyed Tiger with an elite crew. If you want them to keep driving the Tiger, you have to change the destroyed Tiger into a different armor unit, then back into a Tiger. That can cost quite a bit of cash, especially in the early part of the campaign when you don't have lots of points available for repairs. So to remedy that, use my method stated above to create free units so that you do not spend unecessary points to keep your experienced crew. Okay, now for the benefit of everyone, I have figured out the best classes to make the crew fix units. For your tank crews, make an "attack helicopter" class unit. There are no helicopters for the AI to use, so you never have to worry about a few hundred odd looking attack helos showing up in battles. For your halftrack/truck crews use a "helicopter" class unit, again because there are none for the AI to buy. For the artillery crews, this is a little difficult since there are so few classes of artillery, but you can use "howitzer" class to make the crew fix for artillery. I don't see the AI buying howitzers (on map versions), and though most people will not have changed the availability dates of their howitzers, I did and still do not see the AI using them, so the howitzer class seems to be good for making the crew fix for your AT guns and other artillery.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 13

- 5/24/2000 11:10:00 AM

Pack Rat

Posts: 594
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: north central Pennsylvania USA
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Desert Fox: Now, lets say you have a destroyed Tiger with an elite crew. If you want them to keep driving the Tiger, you have to change the destroyed Tiger into a different armor unit, then back into a Tiger. That can cost quite a bit of cash, especially in the early part of the campaign when you don't have lots of points available for repairs. So to remedy that, use my method stated above to create free units so that you do not spend unecessary points to keep your experienced crew.

You don't have to change the Tiger into another unit and than back to a Tiger. Simply buy a new Tiger just like the one destroyed or simply buy a new type of tank Panther for example. The exp. crews will remount either way. When I start campign I can't afford the best so upgrading a crew to say a Tiger is something I would have done anyway. The part that bothers me (until the patch is out) is I might not have wanted to upgrade in the order dictated by having to replace entire tanks instead of just fixing them. A sure waste of valuable victory points. You've put alot of thought and effort into making a work through, but I fear it's to much work for me.

------------------ Good hunting, Pack Rat

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 14

- 5/25/2000 1:08:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Pack Rat: You don't have to change the Tiger into another unit and than back to a Tiger. Simply buy a new Tiger just like the one destroyed or simply buy a new type of tank Panther for example. The exp. crews will remount either way.

I have never been able to change a tank into itself. I know you could do that in SP2 ad infinum, but that I always felt was a bug since I often times accidentally double clicked and spent twice the amount of points I wanted to. That was taken out/fixed in SP3, and so far I have never been able to do it in SPWAW. If you can do that, then you really don't need my solution. Now, changing it into a different type of tank is always a completely different way around the bug. That is the whole idea behind my method, but the difference is maybe you don't want a panther, you want the crew to still man a tiger. You can change it into a panther, then back to a tiger, but like I said, it costs more points than it should. Thats where the 'crew fix' units come into play to keep down campaign costs. My motto is, "If it works, use it." If this works for you, then great, if not, I know you will find something else that works better.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 15

- 5/25/2000 3:04:00 AM

Wild Bill

Posts: 6821
Joined: 4/7/2000
From: Smyrna, Ga, 30080
Status: offline

Enjoy them while you have them, or hate them while you can. They'll soon be gone

Wild Bill ------------------ Wild Bill Wilder Coordinator, Scenario Design Matrix Games

_____________________________

In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Independent Game Consultant

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 16

- 5/28/2000 6:42:00 PM

Host26

Posts: 6
Joined: 5/18/2000
From: Paris
Status: offline

I tried to create 0 cost units to salvage my crews to no avail. I did not find a way to create completely new units in the oobeditor, so I used empty slots in the German OOB (units 181-183). I gave a name, changed country allegiance to '91.Free French' to '70.Germany', changed the availability period to 39-49. Made 'attack helo', 'helo' and howitzer classes. But they won't show up in the 'Change' screen. I tried changing them to 'Tank' and 'AFV' classe, no go either. What am I doing wrong?

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 17

- 5/29/2000 11:24:00 AM

Desert Fox

Posts: 171
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Ohio, that is all I can say.
Status: offline

quote:

Originally posted by Host26: I tried to create 0 cost units to salvage my crews to no avail. I did not find a way to create completely new units in the oobeditor, so I used empty slots in the German OOB (units 181-183). I gave a name, changed country allegiance to '91.Free French' to '70.Germany', changed the availability period to 39-49. Made 'attack helo', 'helo' and howitzer classes. But they won't show up in the 'Change' screen. I tried changing them to 'Tank' and 'AFV' classe, no go either. What am I doing wrong?

So far so good. Looks like you did everything right. I think possibly they may need to be given weapons. The first time I made my units, they didn't show up either. I went back in and changed a whole bunch of things, and they showed up. Try adding a weapon to the units. It should work. If that doesn't work, try adding armor. Just play with it a bit, and if worst comes to worst, just copy an existing unit and change its name and cost.

_____________________________

(in reply to Desert Fox)

Post #: 18