Aircraft Carrier's Aircraft Ordnance Magazine Loads

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Aircraft Carrier's Aircraft Ordnance Magazine Loads

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Aircraft Carrier's Aircraft Ordnance Magazine Loads - 11/6/2003 11:49:56 PM

pry

Posts: 1410
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas
Status: offline

I have been thinking about this for several weeks and trying to figure a way to ask this question in a way that will not open a big ole can of worms�. So I really hesitate to ask this but I was wondering IF anything has been done about the bottomless pit of aircraft ordnance on carriers. In UV one can park a carrier in range of a target and the aircraft will keep flying fully armed strikes until the carrier has to retire to fuel. The AI is really bad about doing this I have seen carriers sit off NG as the Japanese for as long as 16 days launching fully armed strikes every day fatigue and the weather permits. Historically only enough was carried to supply the air group with about 3 days worth of ordnance, they would be reduced to shooting spitballs after the 2nd or 3rd day of sustained operations unless magazines were replenished.

As an example Enterprise carried the following ordnance in her magazines during 1943

504 100lb GP
288 500lb GP
288 500lb SAP
378 1000lb GP
378 1000lb SAP
378 1000lb AP
18 1600lb AP
18 2000lb GP
288 325lb DB (ASW)
288 100lb Incendiaries
36 torpedoes

Essex class carried the following in 43

504 100lb GP
296 500lb GP
146 1000lb GP
129 1000lb SAP
110 1000lb AP
19 1600lb AP
19 2000lb GP
296 325lb DB (ASW)
296 100lb Incendiaries
36 torpedoes

Independence class CVL's carried

162 100lb GP
72 500lb GP
36 1000lb GP
36 1000lb SAP
36 1000lb AP
36 325lb DB (ASW)
180 100lb Incendiaries
24 torpedoes

The USN magazine load outs changed in late 44 to carry a lot more smaller weapons and rockets the need for ship killers had pretty much dried up after Philippine Sea so the stocks of big bombs was reduced. I have no idea about Japanese magazine loads but they must have been similar. I hope some sort of limit is in place to prevent this from happening and if not it really needs to be considered but not to the extent of delaying the game in any way. Maybe something like fly strikes in 3 phases and your carrier aircraft are out bombs and you have to replenish the magazines from somewhere. Thoughts?

Post #: 1

- 11/7/2003 12:08:27 AM

Nikademus

Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline

The issue has been brought up in the past (on the UV boards) :)

I doubt we will see magazine limitations added to the game (due to the coding nightmare it would produce) For what it's worth, i have not found this "unlimited magazine" to be a game breaker. Even for the Japanese in the first months of the game there are other limiting factors that would sway him or her from just bombing bases left and right to extinction. Those factors are

1) fuel

Granted, it doesn't sound like much of a limitation but it is...believe me, the map is so much bigger than UV and without alot of stockpiling at forward bases and/or replenishment TF's the battle TF's will be limited in where/when they can go. Ran one test where i went straight to the Coral Sea after Turn 1 (to test an AI quirk as Allied) and i ended up running out of fuel which caused problems. Plane operations are also accounted for by draining fuel points from the carrier's endurance for each raid launched (each plane accounted for) so there isn't in reality a magic bottomless pool for airstrikes. I was still in the green when i reached CS (though getting low), the airstrikes i launched put me well under the red to the point where i found myself without enough endurance to reach the nearest base (with fuel)

2) aircraft losses

For KB especially, every attack unless on a totally undefended target will cost planes (and if shot down, precious pilots) so while this wont prevent a player from racking up points if his opponent is unwise enough to present unshielded surface assets and merchants the mounting losses will require KB (or another carrier group) to retire at some point to retool

3) well defended targets/opposing carrier groups

there will be few opportunities for players to 'rampage' for extended periods of time unopposed or with little opposition. Most will probably be presented by the AI (though we are currently reporting AI behavior so i'm hoping this can be minimized) The more likely scenerios would be limited strikes followed by retirement, as happened historically, either as a result of enemy naval assets and/or enemy LBA.

To be honest, i've never read a source that cited KB (or USN groups) retiring from an area from 'lack of ammo' KB itself was at sea almost continuously from the start of the war through the first half of 42. After the Indian ocean adventures they finally opted back to Japan to retool but this was mainly to aquire new planes and pilots as well as to refit the big carriers.

So far in my test games, the biggest most extended strikes i've conducted was a 3 raid/3-day raid on Noumea where the AI had foolishly placed 24 large transports.

Everything else was one offs.

_____________________________

(in reply to pry)

Post #: 2

Magazine loads - 11/12/2003 6:39:19 PM

markbroughton

Posts: 15
Joined: 11/11/2003
From: Bedfordshire
Status: offline

Pry,

That was a really interesting post, can I ask you were you got the information about the magazine loads? Most texts about the subject tend to overlook this aspect. I was really surprised about the number of Torpedo`s in particular, but make sense when think about the size of the weapons.

Regards Mark

(in reply to pry)

Post #: 3

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Aircraft Carrier's Aircraft Ordnance Magazine Loads

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