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Marder meaning? - 9/1/2001 11:37:00 PM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		when i was a kid and first started getting interested in armor and thought a Mark IV was the english translation for Panzer IV until the rays of understanding hit me and i realized the name/model differences. i figured out the nashorn and brumbar as well. but ive seen the marder also called the martin, and never quite figured that one out. is that a designers name (such as the ferdinand), factory, or word meaning something obvious that ive not found? while im being curious, are the german words for tiger, panther, puma, elephant, the same? im guessing yes since the nashorn, brumbar, hetzer all keep their german names. (yes i know elephant is spelled different in german) anyone know if the germans had names for the panzers 1-4? or why they werent named? if brumbar is grizzly bear, isnt that animal native to the USA? seems naming a vehicle after an enemys fierce animal seems odd. i dont see the soviets naming an aircraft the bald eagle in the cold war just a line of curious questions for anyone who might know. thanks

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Post #: 1
- 9/2/2001 12:13:00 AM   
Christopher

 

Posts: 370
Joined: 4/9/2001
From: Verden, Lower Saxony, Germany
Status: offline 		I have no idea about the names for the Panzer I-IV...
I think Marder means marten in english. Maybe there's a connection.
And tiger, panther, puma and elephant are exactly the same in german, yep.
But Brummbär isn't a grizzly bear, as much as I know. It's just a childish word for a bear in general or for a person that is usually in a bad mood. Maybe they should have called it B(r)ummbär (boom-bear)...lol

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Post #: 2
- 9/2/2001 2:03:00 AM   
Jasper

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 5/29/2001
From: I am from Mars
Status: offline 		I only know that German name after their tanks by animals. The British tried to name after their tanks with C...like Crusade, Cromwell, etc.

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Post #: 3
- 9/2/2001 3:32:00 AM   
SAMWolf

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 7/30/2000
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Truckeye:
when i was a kid and first started getting interested in armor and thought a Mark IV was the english translation for Panzer IV until the rays of understanding hit me and i realized the name/model differences. i figured out the nashorn and brumbar as well. but ive seen the marder also called the martin, and never quite figured that one out. is that a designers name (such as the ferdinand), factory, or word meaning something obvious that ive not found? while im being curious, are the german words for tiger, panther, puma, elephant, the same? im guessing yes since the nashorn, brumbar, hetzer all keep their german names. (yes i know elephant is spelled different in german) anyone know if the germans had names for the panzers 1-4? or why they werent named? if brumbar is grizzly bear, isnt that animal native to the USA? seems naming a vehicle after an enemys fierce animal seems odd. i dont see the soviets naming an aircraft the bald eagle in the cold war just a line of curious questions for anyone who might know. thanks
The Marder (Marten) is a small North American predator, member of the weasel family.
As far as I know the Panzer I thru IV were never given names. The Tiger was the first "named" panzer.

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Post #: 4
- 9/2/2001 3:51:00 AM   
Grumble

 

Posts: 471
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Omaha, NE, USA
Status: offline 		"Marders" were a problem where I lived in Germany. During the winter they would come down out of the hills behind my town and occasionally sneak under people's cars. (The relative warmth of the engines attracts them.) They love to chew on wiring harnesses, so much so that BMW markets a custom anti-Marder wiring guard.
"Hetzer" btw means, "ambusher" or "harasser".

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Post #: 5
- 9/2/2001 8:12:00 AM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		thanks guys, i never heard of the animal marten. sounds like its small, pesky, and a hinderance. kinda like the light weight tank destroyers. makes perfect sence. thanks especially for the picture!!

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Post #: 6
- 9/2/2001 11:55:00 AM   
bradmbrown

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: The irrelevent north
Status: offline 		A Grizzly is a brown bear. A LARGE North American Opportunistic Carnivore, a member of the bear family Funny a tank should be named after an animal whose favorite food is machte zart touristin. (I am not affrait off za bears, nien, I haff ziss little bottle off bear spray here, zee? I giff za bear a little viff off it on his schnoz, unt he vill run avay like zot, zee?
He ist VAT BIGNESS? Accch, nien, nien bear ist zieben hunnert kilos. Impozzible...
blah blah ...In chermany ve haff better roadss zen ziss.
blah blah ...Ze fuud ist terrible here.
Stop buddering me.
Vot you say?
VAT?
Over where?
Got In Himmel ein blitzen brumbar!!
Eyee. Iyee.
Crunch.) [ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]



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Post #: 7
- 9/2/2001 12:25:00 PM   
Randy

 

Posts: 1172
Joined: 8/22/2000
From: Torrance, Calif. USA
Status: offline 		I always thought that the Hezter was translated to "baiter". I guess that is similar to ambusher.

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Post #: 8
- 9/2/2001 2:50:00 PM   
ruxius

 

Posts: 909
Joined: 5/5/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		Well very interesting here...
I have looked for the translation of Focke-wulf
but nothing appeared from the vocabulary...
So I surrendered to the hypothesis it's a producer trademark.. And for my first time I know what the Hetzer means..

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Post #: 9
- 9/2/2001 4:13:00 PM   
Christopher

 

Posts: 370
Joined: 4/9/2001
From: Verden, Lower Saxony, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Funny a tank should be named after an animal whose favorite food is machte zart touristin. (I am not affrait off za bears, nien, I haff ziss little bottle off bear spray here, zee? I giff za bear a little viff off it on his schnoz, unt he vill run avay like zot, zee?
He ist VAT BIGNESS? Accch, nien, nien bear ist zieben hunnert kilos. Impozzible...
blah blah ...In chermany ve haff better roadss zen ziss.
blah blah ...Ze fuud ist terrible here.
Stop buddering me.
Vot you say?
VAT?
Over where?
Got In Himmel ein blitzen brumbar!!
Eyee. Iyee.
Crunch.)

lmao

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Post #: 10
- 9/2/2001 5:15:00 PM   
bradmbrown

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: The irrelevent north
Status: offline 		Seriously. Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, if you do not sneak up on him and suprise him, IF he knows you are a human and not a moose or something (they are quite intelligent, it is difficult to mistake a tiny perfumed human for a huge stinky moose) he won't try to eat you. I sat a hundred yards from a sow and her cub who were fishing. They knew I was there and they kept fishing. For about an hour. I ate my sandwiches and had a coffee and went away. The bears didn't even say good bye. Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.

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Post #: 11
- 9/2/2001 7:01:00 PM   
Greybear

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/30/2000
From: Osceola, AR
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Seriously. Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, .......................... Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.
General, If I am to believe my NRA propaganda (before anyone gets started, I am a Life Member), what have you Canadians left to shoot those bullets with. Also, if you were from around here, you would know better than to go to out state game and fish for any thing factual. (his black bear pic was borrowed from AGFC) Most of those folks were hired when Bill was Governor. Do you know that our local game warden is named "Bubba"? If he has a last name, I never heard it.

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Post #: 12
- 9/2/2001 8:24:00 PM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		this is better than the nature channel

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Post #: 13
- 9/2/2001 11:28:00 PM   
Jasper

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 5/29/2001
From: I am from Mars
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Seriously. Grizzly Bears aren't people-eaters.
If the bear knows you are there, if you do not sneak up on him and suprise him, IF he knows you are a human and not a moose or something (they are quite intelligent, it is difficult to mistake a tiny perfumed human for a huge stinky moose) he won't try to eat you. I sat a hundred yards from a sow and her cub who were fishing. They knew I was there and they kept fishing. For about an hour. I ate my sandwiches and had a coffee and went away. The bears didn't even say good bye. Black bears.

Different. If a black bear hits you, he plans on eating you. Always. Black bears are Satanic Forest Swine.
We spend millions in tourist country to humanely trap and transport them. In the north country, where there are few tourists, black bears are bullet magnets, highly valued as rugs and dog food.
Sure, we have all heard some people eat bear. I haven't actually SEEN anyone eating bear. Just heard of it. I will believe it when I see it.
The chinese do eat bear but not the whole part only their palm. They claimed that the bear palm if double or triple boil will improve your tintky little "brother". It make him stronger.
Bloody communist.....

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Post #: 14
- 9/2/2001 11:59:00 PM   
Christian Blex

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 9/10/2000
From: Muenster, Germany
Status: offline 		The german planes in WW2 were given the manufactury name follewed by an officially given number. Later in the war some planes were sometimes named after their designers (e.g. the Ta 152, the development of the Focke-Wulf Fw 190, named after Kurt Tank. In addition some late-war developments were also given animal-names (the (Messerschmidt ) Me 262 Sturmvogel (don't know the English word, even do not know anything about this bird), the Heinkel He 162 Salamander (just the same in English), the Dornier Do 335 Pfeil (arrow), or the Messerschmidt Me 163 Komet ( Engl.: comet, well the name was well deserved, as more planes were lost, when the Komet hit the ground and explodet, than were shot down).
Hope this helps.
Christian

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Post #: 15
- 9/3/2001 12:14:00 AM   
OKW-73

 

Posts: 237
Joined: 9/1/2001
From: Cyberspace, Finland
Status: offline 		Good resource for panzer names: http://www.panzerdiesel.com/eng/e2b0.php

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Post #: 16
- 9/3/2001 1:26:00 AM   
bradmbrown

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: The irrelevent north
Status: offline
quote:

you would know better than to go to out state game and fish for any thing factual. (his black bear pic was borrowed from AGFC)
I am not sure what you mean by that. I am not sure YOU are sure what you mean by that. Restate it? I typed the words '+"black bear" +jpg' in yahoo search engine and used the first black and white picture of a black bear I saw. I didn't care who made the picture. I wouldn't have cared if Billy-Bob McIncest from Upper Bunghole, had made the picture. It was black and white (low bandwidth) and it looks like a bear! We don't use automatic rifles to hunt with in Canada. Except for Quebec. They are crazy there. In Canada most culpable homocide is done with fists, boots, beater-sticks and knives. If you are a member of NRA, so what? What does that mean, that you own an automatic rifle? 20 of them? Anti tank guns? What? Don't believe the propoganda. No one who disagrees with automatic rifle and handgun registration registration up here will register. A shovel is as easy to use here as it is in your country. The mounties haven't taken away our wheels yet, or our shovels and we got 3.9 million square miles of dirt where any Canuck who owns them can bury his antitank guns and assault rifles. Never know when ya might need your antitank guns, maybe next year be good elk Season???? Never be proud to have guys named "Bubba" around you. My grampa taught me how you can recognize a Yankee deer hunter. This is truth. I won't tell the story of when he proved it. Yankee deer hunters wear Camo (!) I spit my vodka up first time I ever seen that. And I have seen it a hundred times since. There are 7 million legal long guns in this country. Who knows how many illegal types. There aren't yet thirty million of us. 10 million of us are children. YOU do the math.
Don't believe all the propoganda you are shovelled.
Don't you worry, Yank. We ain't ready to get butt____ed by wild boars yet.
[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]



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Post #: 17
- 9/3/2001 1:39:00 AM   
murx

 

Posts: 245
Joined: 3/6/2001
From: Braunschweig/Germany
Status: offline 		I think a better decription for Hetzer is not 'ambusher' or 'harrasser' but it's mor like the folk who rives the game in a hunt. They don't really kill the game but drive it to the 'real' hunters. 'Sturmvogel' is from the 'Sturmkraehe' or storm crow - a bad weather bird and I guess that what the 'Sturmvogel' delivered .... murx

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Post #: 18
- 9/3/2001 6:28:00 PM   
Tom Terror

 

Posts: 59
Joined: 6/6/2001
Status: offline 		Brummbär is a play down expression of bear for kids. It just means the "Growl-bear" or growling bear. So what the name implies is simply a huge, slow moving thing that makes a terrific noise when opening its mouth. Name quite fits, doesn't it?
(For the Nature Channel Community: I know bears can actually be pretty fast...) Hetzer is the noun of the german word hetzen which means to hunt or to bait. (Meaning the same like to set dogs on a bear) Hope that helps TomT

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Post #: 19
- 9/3/2001 6:57:00 PM   
Greybear

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/30/2000
From: Osceola, AR
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
I am not sure what you mean by that. I am not sure YOU are sure what you mean by that. Restate it? I typed the words '+"black bear" +jpg' in yahoo search engine and used the first black and white picture of a black bear I saw. I didn't care who made the picture. I wouldn't have cared if Billy-Bob McIncest from Upper Bunghole, had made the picture. It was black and white (low bandwidth) and it looks like a bear! We don't use automatic rifles to hunt with in Canada. Except for Quebec. They are crazy there. In Canada most culpable homocide is done with fists, boots, beater-sticks and knives. If you are a member of NRA, so what? What does that mean, that you own an automatic rifle? 20 of them? Anti tank guns? What? Don't believe the propoganda. No one who disagrees with automatic rifle and handgun registration registration up here will register. A shovel is as easy to use here as it is in your country. The mounties haven't taken away our wheels yet, or our shovels and we got 3.9 million square miles of dirt where any Canuck who owns them can bury his antitank guns and assault rifles. Never know when ya might need your antitank guns, maybe next year be good elk Season???? Never be proud to have guys named "Bubba" around you. My grampa taught me how you can recognize a Yankee deer hunter. This is truth. I won't tell the story of when he proved it. Yankee deer hunters wear Camo (!) I spit my vodka up first time I ever seen that. And I have seen it a hundred times since. There are 7 million legal long guns in this country. Who knows how many illegal types. There aren't yet thirty million of us. 10 million of us are children. YOU do the math.
Don't believe all the propoganda you are shovelled.
Don't you worry, Yank. We ain't ready to get butt____ed by wild boars yet.
[ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]
General,
It seems that I am honor bound to defend my native state from your northern aggression ( and BC is WAY north isn’t it).
1) We flatlanders (to differentiate from the other major southern categories: hillbillies, peckerwoods, and cityboys) spells Billy-Bob, Billy Bob. People with hyphens in their names are not allowed in rural southern US.
2)You must have confused the website reference with LOWER Bunghole ( if I remember correctly is just west of Delite). Upper Bunghole is somewhere north of here.
3) Automatic rifles haven’t been used in years since AGFC started enforcing daily limits. The only exceptions are for cityboys who can’t hit any thing and hog hunting.
4)What have you got against Quebecs?
5)As for my NRA membership, I own 1 semiautomatic rifle, a Ruger 10/22, but I own about 15 pistols. No artillery, sorry. I knew a guy in Kentucky that had a M1897 field gun.
6)I guess you don’t have the equivalent of the ATF up there. If the ATF gets an anonymous tip that you buried something, they might dig your barn up with a backhoe. Heard about it happening about 10 years ago.
7)Arkansas elk permits go for about $15,000 to $60,000 each, no guarantee, no centerfire calibers over .5 inch (no AT guns).
8) I have never meet a Bubba I didn’t like.
9) About the Camo, you are right, only Yankees or Cityboys wear camo. Wait a minute, YOU WASN’T REFERRING TO ME AS A YANKEE, WERE YOU?
10)I don’t believe all the propaganda, but Charlton Heston wouldn’t lie.
11)YOU DID CALL ME A YANK, YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO GET INSULTING.

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Post #: 20
- 9/3/2001 7:08:00 PM   
Mike Oshiki

 

Posts: 43
Joined: 7/22/2000
From: Williamsburg, VA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
A Grizzly is a brown bear. A LARGE North American Opportunistic Carnivore, a member of the bear family Funny a tank should be named after an animal whose favorite food is machte zart touristin. (I am not affrait off za bears, nien, I haff ziss little bottle off bear spray here, zee? I giff za bear a little viff off it on his schnoz, unt he vill run avay like zot, zee?
He ist VAT BIGNESS? Accch, nien, nien bear ist zieben hunnert kilos. Impozzible...
blah blah ...In chermany ve haff better roadss zen ziss.
blah blah ...Ze fuud ist terrible here.
Stop buddering me.
Vot you say?
VAT?
Over where?
Got In Himmel ein blitzen brumbar!!
Eyee. Iyee.
Crunch.) [ September 02, 2001: Message edited by: General Amnesty ]
LOL!!! I must say that your post left me (and my wife, who I called over to read it) laughing to the point the kids wondered what the heck we were doing with the computer. Thanks. Mike

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Post #: 21
- 9/3/2001 7:30:00 PM   
john g

 

Posts: 984
Joined: 10/6/2000
From: college station, tx usa
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Casper:
The chinese do eat bear but not the whole part only their palm. They claimed that the bear palm if double or triple boil will improve your tintky little "brother". It make him stronger.
Bloody communist.....
Strange, every hunting magazine I have read say that it is gall bladders that the Chinese want from bears. Quite a few get poached here in the US for that purpose, just like rhinos get killed for their horns.
thanks, John.

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Post #: 22
- 9/4/2001 5:51:00 AM   
bradmbrown

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: The irrelevent north
Status: offline 		Greybear!: Cool riposte! Excellent read. Loved it all and cannot refute a word of it. 60 grand for an Elk Tag????? Holy smokes! If you like to travel and you are thinking about a Western Canada holiday, be sure to write me and we can meet. I know a lot of Native guys who would gladly take you into the bush and you could maybe bag one. Of course, you would have to use the other guy's tag, as they are kind of hard for foriegn residents to get.
Native folks are dirt poor for the most part up here (yes, we have a policy of APARTHIED in Canada, Bishop Tutu hit the nail on the head when he came here, he was FURIOUS at Canada) and, if you take some time and say hello and get to know a couple fellows, you can become a temporary employer of an "unnofficial" "Native Guide."
I don't mean to advocate poaching or anything sick like that, your game will be tagged. Then, you ask your guide if he could bring the meat etc across the line, thay are allowed to do that, BTW.
Cost a helluva lot less than 60 grand. I extend my hand in friendship to you, Sir. And I am very glad you took my comments as Lampooning rather than Harpooning! Kudos 2 you, you whipped me good!

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Post #: 23
- 9/4/2001 6:10:00 PM   
Jasper

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 5/29/2001
From: I am from Mars
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by john g:
Strange, every hunting magazine I have read say that it is gall bladders that the Chinese want from bears. Quite a few get poached here in the US for that purpose, just like rhinos get killed for their horns.
thanks, John.

Chinese eat everything, From rat to an Elephant. The Bear palm is one of the part they want. Look at those Shark, the chinese or we like to eat shark fin but the meat, we do eat but no all of the mlike it. It is very simple to prepare. This is how it is done, hope you try it. First heat up the pan.
Then add in some corn oil, pls do not subsititue corn oil with butter, the taste will be different.
Heat up the oil, added in some chopped ginger. Fried them until the ginger turns brown. Add in the shark meat (chopped them to cube size).
Fried them unitl the shark meat turns white and look quite solid. Remember to add those salt. A....it taste abit sour but that is how it is, the ginger will get rid of the fishly smell. Try it

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Post #: 24
- 9/4/2001 6:14:00 PM   
Jasper

 

Posts: 174
Joined: 5/29/2001
From: I am from Mars
Status: offline 		Forgot to mention. The Famous China "Man Han Quan Xi", the dinner which the stupid King of China eat. One of the dish was Bear Palm......

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Post #: 25
- 9/4/2001 6:53:00 PM   
Greybear

 

Posts: 30
Joined: 5/30/2000
From: Osceola, AR
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by General Amnesty:
Greybear!: Cool riposte! Excellent read. Loved it all and cannot refute a word of it. 60 grand for an Elk Tag????? Holy smokes! If you like to travel and you are thinking about a Western Canada holiday, be sure to write me and we can meet. I know a lot of Native guys who would gladly take you into the bush and you could maybe bag one. Of course, you would have to use the other guy's tag, as they are kind of hard for foriegn residents to get.
Native folks are dirt poor for the most part up here (yes, we have a policy of APARTHIED in Canada, Bishop Tutu hit the nail on the head when he came here, he was FURIOUS at Canada) and, if you take some time and say hello and get to know a couple fellows, you can become a temporary employer of an "unnofficial" "Native Guide."
I don't mean to advocate poaching or anything sick like that, your game will be tagged. Then, you ask your guide if he could bring the meat etc across the line, thay are allowed to do that, BTW.
Cost a helluva lot less than 60 grand. I extend my hand in friendship to you, Sir. And I am very glad you took my comments as Lampooning rather than Harpooning! Kudos 2 you, you whipped me good!
General, Thanks for that fine offer. My Mother has been trying to get me to go visit our cousins north of Edmington Alberta, But I really don't enjoy traveling.
One the subject of Arkansas elk permits, most of the most expensive permits were the ones resold at charity auctions. Also, Bow and muzzleloading permits are much cheaper. One of my cousins bought one for the coming season for, I think, $3000.
If you ever think of visiting the Mississippi Delta, or the Southern USA in general, I see what I can do about native guide. My european ancestors have been in this area 200 years, and my Mother is a member of the Cherokee tribe (I have never bothered to do the paperwork for me).
Thanks again for the offer.
Glenn

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Post #: 26
- 9/4/2001 8:24:00 PM   
bradmbrown

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: The irrelevent north
Status: offline 		3000 bucks isn't bad.
Alberta? Cool. You might like it. A bit like the Old West, well, a modern version. Antelope leaping into barb wire fences.
Gophers galore to blast. Couple quarts of beer and a high caliber rifle, they blow up real good. YES, I have done it.
You can drive a hundred fifty miles an hour.
People say "howdy!"
Actual honest to god cowboys! Except in Calgary. Calgary I get a kick out of. Every time I see a cowboy with shiny perfect boots and a two hundred dollar hat climbing out of a brand new spotless GMC truck, I try not to laugh.
It gets so cold in the winter, you have to back up when you take a leak.
There is this wierd beer there called "Bohemian." It has trains and bunnies on the label. Kicks like a mule.
And the girls! Meat eaters all. Big busty lusty Levis wearing don't need no brothers to protect them.
KD Lang is from Camrose, Alberta. Lesbian vegetarian manwoman from the heart of ranch country. She loves cows, keeps 'em as pets in the back of her mansion in L.A. People in Alberta hate her guts.
Alberta's Premier (sort of like a State Governer) is named Ralph Klien, he is a bit like The George Wallace Of The North. People from Back East are scared half to death of him, they say he eats children.
Every classroom in Alberta's schools has a spittoon.

_____________________________

Don't let the past remind you of what you are not now

(in reply to Truckeye)
Post #: 27
- 9/4/2001 8:37:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		As for naming things with your enemy's nomenclature: The shoulder patch of the US Army's 45th. Infantry division was the Swastika, and Hitler's private train was named "Amerika".

_____________________________

Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to Truckeye)
Post #: 28
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