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Empires in Arms Screenshots -01 - 2/15/2004 9:58:07 PM

Bart Koehler

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Finally! Here are three screenshots for you to take a look at. Without further ado..

Bart

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Screenshot 02 - 2/15/2004 9:59:42 PM

Bart Koehler

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Shot 02

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Screenshot 03 - 2/15/2004 10:00:09 PM

Bart Koehler

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Shot 03

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RE: Screenshot 03 - 2/15/2004 10:45:42 PM

elmo3

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Very nice!

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RE: Screenshots - 2/15/2004 11:44:14 PM

Hoche

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We luv ya Bart

I have some question, comments and praise.

Praise:

I like the textured look of the map.
I think the terrain features also look cool.
The classic style fonts give the map a more period feel, good idea.
The art work for the battle screen is real nice.
The battle interface looks user friendly.

Comments:

It is hard do distinguish between garrison and corps makers. The markers are the same size and the artwork (which is cool) is similar for the two counter. At first glance I thought the corps and garrison markers were corps makers (screenshot 1). But after looking closer I could distinguish between the two. This could cause confusion in the game. Corps markers should be bigger than garrison markes and the art work should be differnt. Players should be able to quickly, without thinking be able to distinguish between corps and garrison. There are no numbers to tell the size of the garrisons.

The cities seem to look the same for the most part. Except for Constantinople which is a large icon all the other cities are the same or very similar. Provincial capitals like Belgrade and Bucharest (which is in the wrong area) have an additional spire to idicate what they are but that isn't very noticeable. In the case of Sofia the spire is covered-up by the garrison and can't be seen. If I hadn't been familiar with the boardgame verison I wouldn't have guessed those cities to be capitals. Also what about garrison capacity, Nish and Nicopolis look like the same size city but in the board game Nicopolis can hold 15 factors but Nish can only hold 10. The same holds for defense value of the city. Nicopolis has a defense value of 1 and Nish has no defense value but you can't tell that by looking at the map.

It appears that you can find out this info be clicking on the city (assuming that's why there is a red border around Constantinople). But people who own the boardgame will have an advantage in games because they will have maps which give that same info at a glance. While people who only have the comp game will have to click on each city.

The borders need to more easily differentiated. Area and provencial borders look very similar. Also there are no broders along rivers. There should be a national border seperting Turkish Belgrade and Schabcz from Austrian Temesvar and Peterwardien.

Questions:

Will you be able to zoom in and out? Screenshot 1 is fine for moving corps around but I would like to be able to zoom out and see the whole theater of comabt. It will be more important for moving fleets.

release date?

I don't mean to come across negative or nitpick. I just want this game to be the best. I think my comments are of sufficiently important matters to warrent discussion. I really do think you guys are doing a good job

ALL HAIL MARTIX!!!!

< Message edited by Hoche -- 2/15/2004 4:04:10 PM >

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RE: Screenshots - 2/15/2004 11:52:25 PM

oldtimer

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Great Job Bart. I really like the look of the screen shots.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/16/2004 12:59:46 AM

Cap Mandrake

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Very Nice map...I like the faux oil look of the water! Counters could use some apparent depth perhaps. Fantastic idea. This game calls out for computer adaptation

Are you chaps planning an AI?

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RE: Screenshots - 2/16/2004 6:10:21 PM

Hoche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Are you chaps planning an AI?

I believe so.

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It is a general popular error to suppose the loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for its welfare.
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RE: Screenshots - 2/16/2004 7:24:37 PM

Bart Koehler

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Yes, AI is included in the game. We are fleshing out some recent updates to the combat system to make sure that we are true to the EiA game.

Bart

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RE: Screenshots - 2/16/2004 9:00:59 PM

denisonh

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Looking good Bart. Keep up the fire!

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RE: Empires in Arms Screenshots -01 - 2/16/2004 9:58:57 PM

pasternakski

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Great stuff, Bart, thank you for all your efforts in the design and in trying to keep all the impatient muppets happy.

I think the map is absolutely excellent, although I hope the plan is to darken the divisions between sea areas so that they are easier to see.

The unit counters? I assume that further development is planned. To be honest with you, I think that they should be wider (possibly even oval rather than rectangular, more artfully bordered (to blend with the map artwork more pleasingly to the eye), emphasize the nation identification disc at the bottom, and include a larger image of the unit type. The background landscapes, it seems to me, are a waste of graphic imagery and confuse the eye of the beholder (just a paean to you old fantasy game players).

What about making the unit type image the full upper portion of the icon, figurine fashion, with the nation ID disc a full base for the image, with the text information, now in that unattractive lilac-colored box, in between?

Of course, I would be happy if the unit counters looked like a pile of Triumph the Insult Comic Dog's poop as long as the game itself is as fun to play as I hope it will be.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 1:41:41 AM

eg0master

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoche
ALL HAIL MARTIX!!!!

Seriously it looks nice and I'm stil waiting for the release as many others... Hoche had some good points expecially about the graphics.

Zooming out and being able to easy see what is Corps and what is garisons when viewing in "zoomed out" mode is very helpful.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 2:55:42 AM

Sonny

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Don't you hate it when we beg for screenshots and then blast 'em when you post 'em?

Tough being a game producer.

Anyway, I really like the screens except - you knew it was coming - the tendency for all games, not just this one, to move toward smaller fonts. We weak-eyed folks have a really eye-weary time of it.

Now for the good part - the game looks real good.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 3:55:54 AM

TheGreek

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I agree the screenshots are great!

I also agree that a different shape for corps and garrisons is a good idea. Making corps a little wider (almost square?) would leave more room along the bottom to make what appears to be the movement allowance stand out from the corps name. In the screenshots, the movement allowance stands out on the fleet counter, but is hard to make out on the corps.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 5:20:05 AM

pasternakski

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There's no "blasting" going on here. I merely suggest that the unit representations might be improved, but maybe it's just my aesthetic preference. As I said, I have no real problems with what I see, and would be happy to buy this game without graphic changes. I'm just trying to be helpful.

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Put my faith in the people
And the people let me down.
So, I turned the other way,
And I carry on anyhow.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 5:59:19 AM

Hoche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

There's no "blasting" going on here. I merely suggest that the unit representations might be improved, but maybe it's just my aesthetic preference. As I said, I have no real problems with what I see, and would be happy to buy this game without graphic changes. I'm just trying to be helpful.

Same here I'm very excited about the game. I am just pointing out things that could be better. I don't think I blasted the screenshots. But seeing the game's progress and making comments is one reason I was begging for screenshots.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/17/2004 7:30:59 AM

David Heath

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Hi Guys

We always welcome your comments, its one of the things we think really make us differernt at Matrix.

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Dot Matrix - 2/17/2004 9:48:26 PM

Greyshaft

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I can't figure out what you're doing with the fonts.

In the third screenshot the words "Round 1" "Round 2" are quite readable but the words "Attacker select your strategy" are very rendered like a dot-matrix printer from 1980... Dot-Matrix... Matrix... is there an inside joke happening here?

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RE: Dot Matrix - 2/18/2004 3:05:44 AM

sol_invictus

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Very impressive!

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RE: Dot Matrix - 2/18/2004 4:24:29 AM

jnier

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

I can't figure out what you're doing with the fonts.

In the third screenshot the words "Round 1" "Round 2" are quite readable but the words "Attacker select your strategy" are very rendered like a dot-matrix printer from 1980... Dot-Matrix... Matrix... is there an inside joke happening here?

I believe this is the reason matrix was reluctant to release screenshots at this time. That font will not appear in the final version of the game...they'll wait until everything else is finished until they do the final graphics changes...which I assume will include changing that font.

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RE: Screenies - 2/18/2004 4:30:17 AM

philjones62

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Hi, It's been a while since I've pulled out this game - what are rural units?

I've got no great problems with the counters - pick with a city is a garrison. I assume one of the icons at teh top turns on and off unit display, which might get around cities being hidden by Corps markers

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RE: Screenies - 2/18/2004 3:06:16 PM

Capitaine

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Overall pretty nice looking. My comment would be is whether you could make the unit "counters" a little more 3D? You know, some shading to make them look like real markers?

Also, while most would probably not like this, was there any thought given to making the markers actual 3D soldiers (or on stands) akin to how Sid Meier's "Civilization III" is done? That would be fairly cool if there were even some animation to it!

Looks good nonetheless, partic. the map.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/18/2004 5:31:23 PM

Sonny

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

There's no "blasting" going on here. I merely suggest that the unit representations might be improved, but maybe it's just my aesthetic preference. As I said, I have no real problems with what I see, and would be happy to buy this game without graphic changes. I'm just trying to be helpful.

I really didn't mean you, I just meant in general when a company works to get screen shots posted and then the forum public starts to pick the shots and game apart.

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RE: Screenshots - 2/18/2004 7:58:44 PM

Von Rom

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Great screenshots.

Glad everything is progressing smoothly.

As to the unit icons, I would personally like to see them a bit more "3D". Perhaps along the lines of Medieval Total War's unit icons that are used for the Strategic map. This would make you feel like you are moving pieces on a board game. Plus the extra unit detail would be welcome.

Cheers!

< Message edited by Von Rom -- 2/18/2004 6:01:23 PM >

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RE: Screenshots - 2/18/2004 10:42:05 PM

Bart Koehler

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I am afraid we won'tbe able to do 3d for the initial release. We are still working on the unit icons and designing in differences between garrisions, depots, etc. The Unit icons have been a topic of discussion for a while, so I know that we will continue to work on them.

Bart

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RE: Empires in Arms Screenshots -01 - 2/18/2004 10:43:44 PM

Bart Koehler

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I hear you about the unit icons. There is still work we want to do, however, it impacts the map in ways you don't see, so there are limitations. I welcome your feedback.

Bart

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RE: Screenshots - 2/18/2004 10:46:32 PM

Bart Koehler

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sonny

Don't you hate it when we beg for screenshots and then blast 'em when you post 'em?

Tough being a game producer.

I don't see it as blasting, I appreciate your viewpoints. By no means do I think we are perfect, but with working with you and the gaming community, we can only improve. But, you are right. It is tough to produce these things because you can't please everyone and unfortunately, the detractors tend to be the more vocal. Bad feedback is just as good as long as it is presented proessionally. So I appreciate both sides of the equation.

Bart

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RE: Screenshots - 2/19/2004 3:11:28 PM

HordesOfSerbs

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Well, the units are just plain bad - they are too narrow and too tall. It's obvious it's not finished yet, but I don't really see the need for that "artwork" and 3-D crap.

What's wrong with the square-like counters as in original board game?... Ask any graphic designer, he will probably tell you that they fit heaps better from both aesthetic and practical point of view.

Aesthetic - they are bigger, so you can see them better and gives you nice warm & fuzzy feeling about the might of your armies when you see the flags around, as opposed to these undistinguishable blurred blobs. The mentioned blobs are also a horrible mismatch to the vintage map style, it's even visible to the amateur eye.

Practical - bigger counters, more space for the corps name. You can also easily distinguish the cavalry from infantry from garrisons etc. (by counter size and flag type) as opposed to searching tiny text or unit background on the screen to figure it out.

You're big boys, so would surely appreciate when someone tells you straight in the face it's crap, then to continue on this road to perdition. Vintage classic counters, please!

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RE: Screenshots - 2/19/2004 4:04:59 PM

mrgodo

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I must agree with HordesOfSerbs, albeit not quite as viciously.

Got any mockups with classic counters? Functionality over fashion. I need to find my guard, cavalry and leaders without too much effort. I need to know that the 10,000 serfs I'm sending at Napoleon are going to perish quickly and not accidentally send in my cavalry and guard (to perish quickly).

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RE: Screenshots - 2/19/2004 4:38:35 PM

jnier

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quote:

ORIGINAL: HordesOfSerbs

What's wrong with the square-like counters as in original board game?... Ask any graphic designer, he will probably tell you that they fit heaps better from both aesthetic and practical point of view.

Aesthetic - they are bigger, so you can see them better and gives you nice warm & fuzzy feeling about the might of your armies when you see the flags around, as opposed to these undistinguishable blurred blobs. The mentioned blobs are also a horrible mismatch to the vintage map style, it's even visible to the amateur eye.

Practical - bigger counters, more space for the corps name. You can also easily distinguish the cavalry from infantry from garrisons etc. (by counter size and flag type) as opposed to searching tiny text or unit background on the screen to figure it out.

I agree about the shape of the counters, but I don't think everyone will ever agree on the aesthetics of the counters. So let's hope that they will be mod-able, so that people can make their own classic counters if they like

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