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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Japanese Sub Reinforcements

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Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/21/2004 5:16:11 AM

Zeta16

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From: Columbus. Ohio
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Does anyone ever get any of these after July 42. I never have and even when all of my 8 subs have been sunk or sent back and with a High rate in March of 43.

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Post #: 1

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/21/2004 5:47:42 AM

DoomedMantis

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From: Sydney, Australia
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Once you get in 1943, dont expect to much from Tokyo, especially subs

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Post #: 2

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/21/2004 9:19:29 AM

Philwd

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From: Arizona
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I hear you won't get much as IJN in '43. I am happy to say at least in my case I have gotten very significant reinforcements since Dec '42. Its now early Apr'43.

I sent back 4 BBs, a damaged CV and a CVL plus assorted CAs DDs etc. My commit never rose above LOW. But I have gotten in return since 2BB, 2 CVL, about 30 escorts, 9 transports, 3 ML and now finally this last turn a sub was released. I wish I knew how I got them released(Condor sure wishes he knew

). It might just be luck. But it can happen.

Quark

(in reply to DoomedMantis)

Post #: 3

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/21/2004 8:35:01 PM

pauk

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i followed Quark's experience... in one of my PBEM i got significant reinforcments (dont remember exact nunbers, but it was significant, together with 2 subs)... even with moderate/low level.... but also i noticed in other games intel was not so generous no matter of commit level...

i guess it's also depends on luck

(in reply to Philwd)

Post #: 4

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/21/2004 9:21:38 PM

crsutton

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From: Maryland
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It depends on the scenario. For example, scen. 19 has a much more generous ship release than scen 17. If you are playing any historical scens., then do not expect much in the way of ships at all. Historically, after the fall of 1942 the IJN was very wary about sending more surface ships into this theater. Both the high level of attrition and serious fuel shortages were the reason for this.

The other factor is what level of ship commitment is your game set on. The default is 100% for both sides. You can raise this in the options menu before starting the game. You will then get more ships released. I am playing the Japanese in scen 19 and ship commitment has been fairly steady.

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Post #: 5

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/22/2004 1:13:18 AM

fcooke

Posts: 1156
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I think the game also takes the % commit level and compares the two sides to decide whether or not to release ships. I've had cases where I wasn't expecting ships and some showed up - but then when I returned more than I received but hurt the Allies bad in the the meantime those returned ships were not replaced.....would love to hear from a developer on this....

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Post #: 6

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/22/2004 7:19:21 AM

Philwd

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From: Arizona
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Good point CR. I'm playing scen 17 with 120% commit. And I'm getting the kitchen sink. Only notable ship I have not gotten is Musashi.

Quark

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Post #: 7

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/23/2004 4:09:16 AM

Zeta16

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All most all of my games as Japan Have been on 120%, and after the ships come in July I get alomost nothing even when I lost 5 BB's in one turn a long with 10 DD's and such. The BB's in July I have gotten are 4 and maybe one more at times. Not often do I get the Super BB's or extra subs.

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RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/23/2004 5:34:04 AM

bilbow

Posts: 741
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From: Concord NH
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I've played a couple of times as Japanese into late 43, once to the end. Both games I recieved subs during the secong half of 43, 4-6 in each game. Came in very useful in the final battles, especially sine the Allied player didn't realize I had them. In one game, my opponent was down to 1 minesweeper, and I used them as minelayers.

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Post #: 9

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/23/2004 5:39:12 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

All most all of my games as Japan Have been on 120%, and after the ships come in July I get alomost nothing even when I lost 5 BB's in one turn a long with 10 DD's and such. The BB's in July I have gotten are 4 and maybe one more at times. Not often do I get the Super BB's or extra subs.

Hmmmmm....Perhaps the Imperial High Command is just a bit miffed at you for losing 5 BBs in one day and has decided that your are not worthy of any more.

Kidding aside, what scenario are you playing?. In my scen #19 I sent six (damaged-not sunk

) BBs back to Tokyo in October and IJHQ has sent me Yamato, Mushai, Fuso and Yamashiro as replacement. Generally two at a time with a nice load of CAs and DDs as escort-all before the end of the year.

Another factor is the total ship count that you have in theater. If your losses have been light and you have a full compliment of ships already in theater, your ship allocation will remain low. My understanding is that there is a limit to the total ships you can have requardless of your commitment levels. This makes a good argument for sending ships home for repair rather than allowing them to languish in local ports. I noticed that after a major battle, when I send a lot of ships home-my commitment level as the Japanese will jump from low to moderate. In my game, the flow of damaged ships going back to Tokyo was very high as my opponent and I were in a life and death struggle for Lungaville and the action hot and heavy.

But remember, if you are playing historical scenarios-you simply are not going to get much more after the first of the year.

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Post #: 10

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/23/2004 7:44:42 PM

Gecko

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Hmmmmm....Perhaps the Imperial High Command is just a bit miffed at you for losing 5 BBs in one day and has decided that your are not worthy of any more.

That's correct! I sank them and he sank three of my CVs and I was happy the others made it back to Pearl. Since then I got just one CV and five CVEs. Sent the latter back - useless stuff in hope to get my repaired CVs back. Nothing!
It's 10/43. I got one of the slower AVs the third time and sent it back the third time.

But other useful stuff is one the way.

quote:

In my game, the flow of damaged ships going back to Tokyo was very high as my opponent and I were in a life and death struggle for Lungaville and the action hot and heavy.

He's got some other problems - got my first foothold on Britain. Lae/Woodlark/Lunga are mine

.

So, a couple of BBs or subs won't make your day...

bye, Gecko

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 11

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/23/2004 10:26:00 PM

Zeta16

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He has those dam Cosairs and Lightings, while my pilots ratings have gone down down down. Also the Kongo class ships have no chance aganist the North Carolina's and South Dakota's of the world.

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Post #: 12

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/24/2004 1:56:22 PM

AmiralLaurent

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I'm playing 3 games as IJN in 1943 and received reinforcements everytime my naval commitment rises above low.

To have a moderate probability of release in 1943 (even after losing 6 CV/CVL and 2 BB in 1942), I had to:
_ send back most of my AP/TK, as only some tens are not needed to supply my southern bases.
_ send back all old ships, for example most CL, all DD with Type 91 DC (Kamikaze and Minekaze classes) and the slower BB, also the CS and the CVE.

By following these rules, I exchanged old DD for the more modern, and even old BB for the Musashi.
As for capital ships (BB and CV), they won't sail from Japan if they are not escorted by 2 CA (at least), so sometimes I send back undamaged CA just to have a major ship released.

As for subs, in one game, I lost and received none, in another I lost 2 and received 3 in four months and in the last I lost 5 and received 3 in four months (but the 3 all left Japan in April). In every game I have between 6 and 10 subs.

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Post #: 13

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/24/2004 8:52:50 PM

Damien Thorn

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I think the chance of receiving subs is independed from all other ship types. Just a hunch but its what I believe.

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Post #: 14

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/25/2004 10:38:06 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zeta16

He has those dam Cosairs and Lightings, while my pilots ratings have gone down down down. Also the Kongo class ships have no chance aganist the North Carolina's and South Dakota's of the world.

IMHO the Kongos are the best Japanese BBs because they are fast and have a great fuel capacity. The Yamatos just eat too much fuel and the others are too slow. Of course, they key is to keep them out of range of the American BBs

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RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/25/2004 10:42:04 PM

crsutton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I think the chance of receiving subs is independed from all other ship types. Just a hunch but its what I believe.

I agree, In my scen# 19 as the Allies, I have lost "9" subs (don't ask me how) and the computer has replaced them all. To the point where I don't worry about sub losses. In my game as the Japanese, my supply of subs have been fine--up to Dec 1942- with the computer replacing losses and subs sent back home. I have yet to get into 43 with the Japanese as I pretty much play for autovictory.

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

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Post #: 16

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 4/27/2004 5:37:29 PM

AmiralLaurent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I think the chance of receiving subs is independed from all other ship types. Just a hunch but its what I believe.

I don't think so. If my probability of release is low, I have never received a submarine from Japan. On the other hand, even if my probability is moderate or high, I will not receive more than one per month usually or even none. Probably depending of the numbers available.

I never had more than a dozen subs (any side, but I never played USN in 1943) in the scen 17. Only with the mid-1943 secnario, where each side starts with 20-30 SS. Of course the IJN loses half of them in a month against 1943 USN ASW.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 17

Historical Sub Result ??? anybody ??? - 5/4/2004 1:51:31 PM

Rainerle

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Hi,
AFAIK there were 2-3 incidents in the UV timeperiod were a Japanese sub sank or heavily damaged a USN CV/BB/CA and got away unharmed.
Now, has anybody ever wittnessed something like this in UV ???

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 18

RE: Historical Sub Result ??? anybody ??? - 5/4/2004 2:50:25 PM

barbarrossa

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I've had IJN subs get hits on Lex a couple of times in early games I played and it was v2.00, I can't remember if the sub got away.

I was playing the AI and was a sore loser in the early days and would restart the game rather than be a man and take the result.

Amazing how the AI's subs KNOW exactly where you'll place your TF!

(in reply to Rainerle)

Post #: 19

RE: Historical Sub Result ??? anybody ??? - 5/4/2004 6:21:49 PM

Rendova

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Hi,
AFAIK there were 2-3 incidents in the UV timeperiod were a Japanese sub sank or heavily damaged a USN CV/BB/CA and got away unharmed.
Now, has anybody ever wittnessed something like this in UV ???

Well two of those were the same incident. I-17? FIred a salvo at Wasp and hit Wasp, North Carolina and a Detroyer. Wasp Sank, as did the destroyer I believe and North Carolina had to go hang out on the west coast for a while. I have have Saratoga hit by a sub and have had Wasp sunk by subs..... Of Course if the wind blows on it too hard Wasp will sink

(in reply to Rainerle)

Post #: 20

RE: Historical Sub Result ??? anybody ??? - 5/4/2004 7:19:39 PM

sven6345789

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I put all of my B-17's at Noumea on ASW Patrol. in Scen. 17, after about 14 days, the japanese subs started to appear. My planes lined up to hit them (had to draw numbers, i guess). Well result is, almost no japanese subs left in the area (All trying to get home, rowing).

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Post #: 21

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 5/4/2004 7:40:25 PM

Damien Thorn

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

I think the chance of receiving subs is independed from all other ship types. Just a hunch but its what I believe.

I don't think so. If my probability of release is low, I have never received a submarine from Japan. On the other hand, even if my probability is moderate or high, I will not receive more than one per month usually or even none. Probably depending of the numbers available.

I never had more than a dozen subs (any side, but I never played USN in 1943) in the scen 17. Only with the mid-1943 secnario, where each side starts with 20-30 SS. Of course the IJN loses half of them in a month against 1943 USN ASW.

I did a test. I edited a scenario to give the Japanese a HUGE ship commitment value. In the scneario I received almost every ship in the game within a couple of months (All CVs, BB, most CA, CL, tons of DD and APs). The flow of Subs however, seemed the same as before. Now I believe more than ever that the rules for releasing subs are different.

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 22

RE: Japanese Sub Reinforcements - 5/5/2004 3:50:26 PM

AmiralLaurent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

Now I believe more than ever that the rules for releasing subs are different.

I was not clear in my statement above. I also believe that but in order to receive subs you have to have the highest probability of release possible.

But if you have a dozen subs, you won't see any sail to Truk even if your probability of release is high, as shown in your test.

(in reply to Damien Thorn)

Post #: 23

Some Sub Thoughts - 5/17/2004 4:17:18 PM

Rainerle

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From: Burghausen/Bavaria
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Hi,
while I lost yet another one-way-attack sub (must be the kamikaze version out there in 1942) I started thinking about the whole sub stuff and finally detected some errors in the way UV handles sub attack.
Example: Sub attacks Bombardement TF on the way to Lunga
What (I think) UV does:
Roll for sub to detect TF,
Roll for TF to detect sub approach,
determine target,
resolve attack,
resolve counterattack,
set sub on sunk list (if IJN).

What (I think) should be in UV:
Roll for sub to detect TF,
Roll for some TF escorts to detect sub,
determine target,
toggle attack yes/no based on target selection (no need to attack a DD out of AIR TF),
resolve attack,
if attack results in no hits, roll if attack is detected,
resolve counterattack for some escorts based on the result of attack, (Explanation: If no major damage occurs it is not likely that all DD's are to check for attack, most of Escorts would remain with high-value ship, throttle up and run, just a handful Escorts would stay behind, throw a couple of DC (mainly for discouragement) and follow the mainbody. If high-value target is badly hit, more scorts hunt sub more seriously.)
If sub survives post nice counter with information on UV Map !!!
Make rolls if TF continues with mission (Example: Bombardement might be aborted due to detection) where applicable.

(in reply to AmiralLaurent)

Post #: 24