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How many riders on a Tank - the proof!

 
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How many riders on a Tank - the proof! - 11/14/2001 8:16:00 PM   
Tommy

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 5/31/2000
From: In that brush, behind you; raising a PIAT to my sh
Status: offline 		Paul, Here it is, the proof! We've been demanding that you allow more infantry to ride on a tank; but you've refused. You cite lame excuses like "they didn't do that in real life". Well, here's the proof that they did . These Northern Alliance troopies in Afghanistan (I count 21 on the front half alone) show that it can be done! Now Paul, modify the OOB's to allow at least 40 men (and a donkey or two) to ride on each tank. Tommy

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- 11/14/2001 8:38:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		But this was on the "E" model of the tank that had .0005 less slope and 15 cubic inches more space due to repositioning of the radio and aux scope. Production numbers for the "E" model are unclear but it seems to equate the "K" model that is in the Bulgarian OOB. I will fight any attempt to cram another model in instead of adding the donkey mounted triple tube AA that clearly was produced in at least 4 versions (including the advanced model where its ears were tied back to keep them out of the way).

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Post #: 2
- 11/14/2001 8:44:00 PM   
generalrichmond

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: richmond, va
Status: offline 		I'd be spinning that turret in circles as fast as it would go!!

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Post #: 3
- 11/14/2001 9:41:00 PM   
Alexandra


Posts: 546
Joined: 12/7/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		Let's also not forget that those guys were not under fire! Picture an RPG, or a M-60, or even a molotov hitting one of those vehicles. You'd lose the vehicle, and 2 squads. So, in SP terms, sure, let you mount 40 guys on a tank - if they all become casualties when it brews up! In fact, one could say that the only glaring weakness in the SP passenger system is that passendgers don't lose enough men when the vehicle explodes. Alex

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Post #: 4
- 11/14/2001 9:53:00 PM   
Tommy

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 5/31/2000
From: In that brush, behind you; raising a PIAT to my sh
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quote:

Originally posted by Alexandra:

So, in SP terms, sure, let you mount 40 guys on a tank - if they all become casualties when it brews up!
Alex
Larry, Alex didn't mention any donkey casualties. Do you think he knows about the 5th version of the of the triple tube AA donkey,; the one with the Nomex/Kevlar blend pajama's? Tommy

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Post #: 5
- 11/14/2001 10:31:00 PM   
Cona

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 9/9/2000
From: Penco, Chile
Status: offline 		[ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Cona ]



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Post #: 6
- 11/15/2001 12:00:00 AM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		Alex ... all you have to do to reduce casulaties in a 40 person carry mode on the E version is to have the turret angled 7 degrees to the right... and if you open all the hatches at exactly 37 degrees ( the E model has inclinometers on each hatch for this purpose ) donkey casulaties will be reduced 47.9 % ... if the troops are wearing Mk VII kelvar turbans casulities should be almost nil ...
btw if you check the Mk V donkey mounted triple AAA gun has no ECM or smoke dischargers and is very vunerable in an air attack ...so the Northren Allinace has only been using them in a rear area support role and you are unlikely to see them in actual combat

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Post #: 7
- 11/15/2001 12:09:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
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From: Atlanta, GA 30068
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quote:

Originally posted by AmmoSgt:
Alex ... all you have to do to reduce casulaties ...t
AmmoSgt, are you having fun at Alexandra's expense? I am shocked that someone would mock the details that some go into in OOB development, its the heart of the technical accuracy of the game. Oh wait, I made a such a post. I must now go calculate the added benefit of the MKII dark paint on US tanks. It seems that when the sun warms it, its coefficient of friction increases and APCR-XYZ rounds richocet at 0.00589% greater probability.

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Post #: 8
- 11/15/2001 12:34:00 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		You guys (and gals) crack me up

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Post #: 9
- 11/15/2001 1:16:00 AM   
Charles2222


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Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		.....And of course the mandatory Fran Tarkenton disclamer: "Kids, never try this at home." Perhaps the crew was silly enough to have tried the British trick of frying eggs on the mudguard and before you knew it there was company. That's probably a field kitchen tank, or would be after the frying . I'll bet you'll spot a few chickens in that picture. [ November 14, 2001: Message edited by: Charles_22 ]



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Post #: 10
- 11/15/2001 1:23:00 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		Actually if we can load some of those tanks down with strap-on phone booths and a few VW's,i think we might cram on another hundred or so...watcha' think professer????

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Post #: 11
- 11/15/2001 2:32:00 AM   
chief


Posts: 1660
Joined: 9/28/2000
From: Haines City FL, USA
Status: offline 		Those guys on the tank (with mule) had better watch out for the Tally bands 40mm camel mounted ATGs...they are lethal...and I hear that camels are deadly to mules....have you ever smelled a camels breath, now that's cb warfare....

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Post #: 12
- 11/15/2001 2:57:00 AM   
BlitzSS

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/24/2000
From: wasChicagoLand, now DC
Status: offline 		Paul needs to modify the armor rating of tanks carrying more then 10 troops, although it might not help to much, like strapped on tracks, against AP, HEAT rounds it should dramatically help absorb HE.

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Post #: 13
- 11/15/2001 3:18:00 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline 		Just how many people can you get into a VW Bug?????

Hey can't you get five more it they ride the cannon barrel. Don't even talk about the one riding the MG barrel.

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Post #: 14
- 11/15/2001 3:57:00 AM   
Warrior


Posts: 1808
Joined: 11/2/2000
From: West Palm Beach, FL USA
Status: offline 		I hate to inject a serious note here, but while designing Redleg discovered that if you cut the number of men in the squad, you can overload almost anything. Once they're loaded, reset to the original squad size. Of course, after they dismount you'll never get them all on again.

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Post #: 15
- 11/15/2001 11:21:00 AM   
valdor17

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 9/3/2001
Status: offline 		Those aren't riders---they're 'spaced armor'!

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Post #: 16
- 11/15/2001 1:35:00 PM   
Khan7

 

Posts: 132
Joined: 7/27/2001
From: StL
Status: offline 		The notion that the Northern Alliance would carry that many men into battle on its tanks is utterly preposterous. The added weight of these boisterous hitchhikers would cut the top pushing speed of the team of new recruits behind by an entire 5 feet per hour. Such a compromise of battlefield mobility is something no good commander would ever even consider. Matt [ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: Khan7 ]



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Post #: 17
- 11/15/2001 3:13:00 PM   
K G von Martinez

 

Posts: 95
Joined: 5/15/2001
From: Hannover, Germany
Status: offline 		By the way, Alex, you are wrong: these guys were under fire, probably even under heavy fire - of a camera ot two

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Post #: 18
- 11/15/2001 4:03:00 PM   
fguillemart

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 9/27/2001
From: France
Status: offline 		I think none of you guys considered the protective effect of M251 depleted uranium beards when dealing with 40 mm camel ATGs. And may I remind you that Mk V AAA donkeys are now supplied w/ laser range finders that enhance greatly their effectiveness against low flying crows

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Post #: 19
- 11/15/2001 9:40:00 PM   
Tommy

 

Posts: 232
Joined: 5/31/2000
From: In that brush, behind you; raising a PIAT to my sh
Status: offline 		!!! THIS JUST IN !!! Spy photo of Taliban AAA Donkey Model II. This earlier version lacks the ear tie down modification found on later models (note scorch marks).


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Post #: 20
- 11/15/2001 10:16:00 PM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		Tommy, Do you have CIA connections? Great new intell!

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Post #: 21
- 11/15/2001 11:30:00 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Would that be Eeyore by any chance? Eeyore would be a fitting spokesanimal for them.

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Post #: 22
- 11/16/2001 12:29:00 AM   
11Bravo


Posts: 2082
Joined: 4/5/2001
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Tommy:
[QB]!!! THIS JUST IN !!! Spy photo of Taliban AAA Donkey Model II.
Nice mountain camoflauge! I think this finally puts to rest the necessity of emptying out the Finnish and other little used OOB's so we can include all the important and historically correct paint jobs found on ass-mounted artillary units. Some suggestions: Jungle, Pasture, Arctic, Harlequin, and the rarely seen (but important!) Octoberfest Ceremonial Full-Regalia. [ November 15, 2001: Message edited by: 11Bravo ]



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Post #: 23
- 11/16/2001 5:02:00 AM   
tracer


Posts: 1865
Joined: 11/22/2000
From: New Smyrna Beach, FL USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Valdor:
Those aren't riders---they're 'spaced armor'!
Nope: reactive armor. The waving gives it away.

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Post #: 24
- 11/16/2001 6:07:00 AM   
Dave R

 

Posts: 128
Joined: 10/7/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		Actually guys. You all have it wrong. Thiis is a Red Cross photo of a bunch of poor souls who have developed TankFoot! Apparently Northern Allience Medics are desperatly trying to discover the M1A1 strain of this ailment!

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Post #: 25
- 11/16/2001 7:11:00 PM   
pax27

 

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/19/2001
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		And why stop at the loading of AFV´s. The picture below shows that you´d be able to cram at least a couple of platoons on each heavy truck, along with all the clothes, ammo, toiletseatcovers, makeup and what ever the ww2 soldier needs to make war. Note that the trucks are Mercedez, so the troops on the picture must be german SS during the North Africa campaign!

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Post #: 26
- 11/16/2001 7:29:00 PM   
melcer

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/23/2000
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline 		Don't forget the most important consummable for the Taliban AAA donkey, the carrot. Without, it will be great under fire but wont move to another position.
We must hope that the talibans has run out of this most strategicaly important resource.

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Post #: 27
- 11/16/2001 9:01:00 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		melcer: Well obviously the solution is to bomb carrot fields then. Only problem is that they would see the strategy soon enough and then deploy one or more 'animal shields' by getting famous rabbits like Bugs Bunny and Rabbit (from Winnie the Pooh [and let's not forget the rabbit used on Captain Kangaroo]) held hostage over the most noteworthy fields.

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Post #: 28
- 11/16/2001 9:24:00 PM   
melcer

 

Posts: 44
Joined: 10/23/2000
From: Uppsala, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Charles_22:
melcer: Well obviously the solution is to bomb carrot fields then. Only problem is that they would see the strategy soon enough and then deploy one or more 'animal shields' by getting famous rabbits like Bugs Bunny and Rabbit (from Winnie the Pooh [and let's not forget the rabbit used on Captain Kangaroo]) held hostage over the most noteworthy fields.
True, what would the PC-crowd say when rabbits are being bombed. Me, i don't care that much about the rabbits as long as you GET THOSE FIELDS!
The problem is that those fields would be the Taliban AAA donkey favourit area to be in. You have consider the probability of heavy losses among the strike pilots. Melcer

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Post #: 29
- 11/16/2001 10:06:00 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		melcer: Have you ever considered the advantages of an anti-carrot missile? Sure, you could get some homegrown carrots on the jets, replace regular missiles with them, and fire them into the enemy's rear. What this would achieve, is as the donkey offensive was commencing, a lot of these missiles to the rear would confound the donkeys to follow those missiles instead. Of course the problem would be two-fold. You would have to fire enough missiles to attract the donkey to your carrots, over the one in front of them on the stick (a case of one almost in the hand/hoof to many from the Bush), or you would have to deploy super-carrots large enough in size (perhaps even decoy carrots would work) to make the one in the hoof seem meaningless. Having thought about this more, perhaps having leaving the fighters to regular missiles would be best, and instead start the carrotkrieg by dropping them from bombers drifting down in parachutes.

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