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Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:50:46 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

Thought you'd want to know where things stand. For the past few days we've had our programming list down to 1 or 2 items, but something keeps coming up that is important enough to fix. As of this afternoon we sent a version to testers that looked good, but I can't say if something else will come up.

The scenarios have been finished and unless we come up with a major data error, they should be good to go. The artwork is all done now as well.

For the past week we've been editing the manual and this will probably take a few more days to finish (there's a lot there and a lot different from UV). Since the exe needs additional testing on the recent changes, this shouldn't be a big problem.

So in short, we are within days of going gold unless something major develops unexpectedly. My guess is by next Monday we will be completely done.

What I don't know is exactly how long Matrix's production cycle is going to be, or how long it will take to get the game ready for digital download. My hope (and David is certainly trying for this) is that Matrix will have games to sell at Origins on June 24 and the digital download will start around the same time. Wish us luck.

Post #: 1

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 8:03:29 AM

brisd

Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline

We all are eager to see the finished product and know you will release it WHEN IT IS DONE and not before. Thanks for the update, great news!!!

And thanks for your patience with those who are asking for digital downloads 'when it goes gold'. Sheeesh!

< Message edited by brisd -- 6/1/2004 10:11:10 PM >

_____________________________

"I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer."-Note sent with Congressman Washburne from Spotsylvania, May 11, 1864, to General Halleck. - General Ulysses S. Grant

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 2

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 8:36:27 AM

Onime No Kyo

Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline

On one hand, I've been on pins and needles waiting for the release. On the other hand, take your time guys. You know that this game will win every award on the face of the Earth.

The more perfect you make it the less the buzzards that give those awards out will have to pick at. Keep up the good work, you have many sim geeks to gratify.

(in reply to brisd)

Post #: 3

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 8:39:41 AM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 4

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 9:42:07 AM

fabertong

Posts: 4546
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Bristol, England, U.K.
Status: offline

Hurrah............July looks a complete write-off..........

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 5

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 10:03:06 AM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline

quote:

Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly old fashioned..., pride in your product.

As I said in the Dev forum a long time back when the word "patch" came up ... "that is demoralizing, it means we failed as a team."

It is really a pleasure working with 2by3. Even when they say they can't get something fixed they go off and fix it anyways. Just in the last week when we were all set for gold, Mike came along and completely gutted the TF routines and redid them from scratch. It caused a couple of major bugs and shook things up, but the end result is the odds on anything going wrong in "your" game is greatly reduced because it was done.

I was scratching my head wondering how insane these guys were to make such a large change at this late state, but it just shows how committed they are to getting it right no matter what.

While you might not be super happy because your favorite "XYZ" is not in the database, you will not be screaming because the game crashes on you every 15 minutes of order entry. This game can take you working for 24 hours entering in orders. It is *that* stable. "XYZ" can be dealt with in the editor, crashes can not.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 6

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 1:00:48 PM

Grouchy

Posts: 1117
Joined: 9/26/2001
From: Nuenen, Noord-Brabant, Nederland
Status: offline

Digital download, that's a nice surprise! Thanks for offering that option!

I'll start to suffering from the typical "want this game badly now" but yeah, make sure it's stable and finished. PacWar was released 12 years ago and those couple of extra days....

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Post #: 7

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 3:07:06 PM

GBirkn

Posts: 249
Joined: 5/6/2004
From: the briny deep
Status: offline

Many thanks for the update, Joel, and thanks again to the entire team. It's nice to see a group so determined to get it right the first time.

_____________________________

"War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let's give them all they want." -- Gen. W. T. Sherman

(in reply to Grouchy)

Post #: 8

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 3:18:43 PM

Platoonist

Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline

Ahhh. Should give just enough time to complete putting up my giant mural-sized wallpaper map of the Pacific Theater of Operations in my den. Then'll I just need to find some colored thumbtacks. Goodbye wife....I mean life.

(in reply to GBirkn)

Post #: 9

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 3:44:14 PM

2Stepper

Posts: 948
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From: North Burbs of Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

As I said in the Dev forum a long time back when the word "patch" came up ... "that is demoralizing, it means we failed as a team."

Nah, I wouldn't take it that way Frag. Though I can understand how you might... The community of people that buy wargames and games in general are almost "pre-programmed" to expect that SOMETHING will be amiss at release time because those that developed it were under a tight schedule. Then patches would follow...

While that's a sad story of the industry it's equally sad that most of us out here have gotten used to it. It is VERY refreshing to know that Matrix took the time and effort to make a great product that we all could enjoy... I'm sure it'll be a gem out of the box... and with regards to patches? Heck I'd just look at them as "developmental improvements".

I mean really, who ever said you can't improve upon perfection?

< Message edited by 2Stepper -- 6/2/2004 7:45:07 AM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 10

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 4:07:49 PM

Raskal67

Posts: 63
Joined: 7/8/2001
From: Eugene, Oregon
Status: offline

I will once again be buying multiple copies for self family and friends so ahem...Thank you guys for the hard work and attention to detail! As a daily lurker and seldom poster who has had UV on the HD since the beginning I am so excited I could dance a gig. (dancing). Thanks again!

(in reply to 2Stepper)

Post #: 11

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 5:47:38 PM

Becket

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Joined: 3/15/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
My hope (and David is certainly trying for this) is that Matrix will have games to sell at Origins on June 24 and the digital download will start around the same time. Wish us luck.

Fantastic...I know it's not a promise, but glad to hear that is the hope. Good luck!!!!

_____________________________

"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 12

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 5:50:40 PM

jhdeerslayer

Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline

Drool....

Thanks for the update Joel!

(in reply to Becket)

Post #: 13

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 6:02:14 PM

Von Rom

Posts: 1705
Joined: 5/12/2000
Status: offline

Thanks for the update Joel.

Please do not feel under pressure in any way. All you guys take your time.

This will be THE game about the Pacific War.

Release it only when you feel it is ready.

I am waiting to buy my copy

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Post #: 14

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 6:19:29 PM

kaleun

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline

Thanks for the update.
Its good to know that a) progress is being made and b) Even at this late stage, major improvements are added.
You guys are great!

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
Sun Tzu

(in reply to Von Rom)

Post #: 15

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 6:55:39 PM

2ndACR

Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline

Thanks for the update, even though I am dying to get this game, take all the time you need. Just not too much time.

(in reply to kaleun)

Post #: 16

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:03:33 PM

Damien Thorn

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Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline

I am glad to see digital download available. I am wondering, however, what form the copy protection will take this time. UV required the disk to be in and, with the lat version 2.30, it caused some people a lot of problems. I assume this time copy protection will involve some sort of code to be entered. Actually, I don'tthink piricy will be a big issue. Most gamers wouldn't play WitP if you tied them down in front of a computer and forced them to (sad, but true). The remaining ones would pay almost any price for the pleasure.

(in reply to kaleun)

Post #: 17

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:05:41 PM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

My sentiments exactly.
I look forward to the fruits of your labors.

Thanks

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product.

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 18

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:08:30 PM

Arnir

Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline

I'm looking forward to it. Keep up the good work, folks.

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 19

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:20:25 PM

Jaypea

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline

Digital download . . . you just made my day

Thanks much and I hope this will be a big success for you all!

JP

(in reply to Arnir)

Post #: 20

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:31:45 PM

pad152

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline

I hope disks will be available for sale at the same time as the digital download, not everyone has DLS.

CD vs download version:

The download version will not require a CD, I hope the CD version will not required the CD in the player (unlike UV) once installed.

(in reply to Jaypea)

Post #: 21

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:35:00 PM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

quote:

Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product
The nerve calling all of us impatient, wanna be testers, dolts.. while I do appreciate Mikes many post I am surprised at the narrowness this attitude reflects.. I am the chief dolt
Give me witp or give me.. well ok that is extreem. Seriously my expresssed opinion to release the game beta does not in any way detract from 2bu3 or matrix, without them and the amazing work effort and commitment to quality gaming uv would not have been upgraded what.. like five times? I have no problem plunking down my cash during the developement stage to say:" I believe in these guys.. in this product" As to MIKE and his ilk, call me a dolt or worse, I stand by my opinion that to me have a playeable beta and trusting in future patches is in my best interest. My hat is off to Joel and all, this game does look fantastic..

(in reply to Jaypea)

Post #: 22

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 7:41:34 PM

barbarrossa

Posts: 359
Joined: 3/25/2004
From: Shangri-La
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

Joel. It is REALLY reassuring to see you guys making your decisions based on putting
the best possible product you can in the box and not giving in to the dolts screaming
to "give us whatever you've got now". Your attitude in this matter is refreshingly
old fashioned..., pride in your product.

While I agree with what he says about not releasing an unfinished product, it's Mike's "charm" that I can do without.

_____________________________

"It take a brave soldier to be a coward in the Red Army" -- Uncle Joe

"Is it you or I that commands 9th Army, My Fuhrer?" -- Model

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 23

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 9:13:07 PM

rhohltjr

Posts: 536
Joined: 4/27/2000
From: When I play pacific wargames, I expect smarter AI.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Thought you'd want to know where things stand. ...

(there's a lot there and a lot different from UV). ...

Thanks Joel, I know this has been asked before but,

... I recall a while back after the UV 2.30 patch was released
you guys were hinting that any further updates to UV might be more along the lines of what is developed for Witp.
Is that still a possibility or has Witp evolved to such an extent that it is not possible?

There is no wrong answer Joel. Thanks to you and everyone for UV and Witp.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 24

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 9:15:35 PM

Mike Scholl

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Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline

I believe that you folks "willing to settle for a playable beta" are one of the chief
reasons so many games get released that way,,,. or worse. While the 2by3 crew
have proved pretty devoted to supporting their games, that's not always the case
in the game publishing world. Virtually every game of complexity will find a need
for patches when the general public bends it in shapes never imagined by the testors
or the designers---but it good to find it didn't get sold while the design team was
already sitting on a pile of "fixes" for known problems.

So Kudos to the 2by3 crew for doing it right. And I will continue to believe those
who tried to encourage the "premature" release of the game are selfish dolts for
their efforts and demands that Matrix ship a less-than-best effort just so they can
be "testors" too. That's my opinion. Whether or not "they" like it is not something
that will keep me up nights.

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 25

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 9:52:53 PM

freeboy

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Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
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In a nutshell you make your error,"settle for playable .." no person in this forum wants a playable beta as the final product. I would not expect to "settle " for anything associated with matrix or 2by3. Calling me a dolt or selfish is your liberty, yet in a game that one player stated took 12 hours to input his first turn I will probably play many first turns just trying to "get it right". So my month of waiting, or however long it takes, days or weeks? This time really could be spent learning the nuts and bolts of what we all expect to be a fine game. As for myself it�s about learning and having fun. Do you really think it would hurt the game to be released imperfectly? Maybe it should be tested another year or two then? Ludicrous I know but these issues are not black and white, and while you seemingly want a flawless product I know there is no such thing.. ever. This is not a selfish proposition as you stated, in no way does releasing the game in its current form hurt the game or gaming community, neither matrix nor 2by3 are planning this so it really is a mute point.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)

Post #: 26

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 10:33:35 PM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

I have to agree with Mike. I think it is a good practice from a business, industry, and (IMO) a gamers perspective.

I think having the public "beta test at large" may create a great deal of frustration for those people not accustomed to all the baggage that comes with Beta testing. I have done it, and it is work. A game of this magnitude is a significant undertaking, especially from a PBEM perspective. It would be doubly frustrating to attempt a "beta" campaign PBEM to encounter bugs, restart, encounter bugs, restart, run 150 turns, encounter bugs, restart, etc.....

If you sign up for it as a beta testor fine. But having it accessible to everyone may have the effect of turning people off to the game due to frustrations and leave with a bad experience and similiar opinion of Matrix games.

I say have the beta done with the proper attention with a dedicated beta team prior to release to ensure that a bug free product is delivered.

The public at large can contribute to future patches through the forum after release focused on game play and "undocumented features".

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 27

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/2/2004 11:03:23 PM

freeboy

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Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
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Reality check time, I did not post one nor see a suggestion to release except within the last 30 days... the version as is will be nearly identical to what is released, unless a major rework comes up. Within the last thirty days....
After rereading most of the posts, actually what was asked for was a quick release after gold, another impatient "demand"
Mike also misused these words "demands" and "put pressure on", believe me neither Matrix nor 2by 3 are feeling any pressure from the outside, after several years of development the stress to finish assuredly is self-generated. So why the attitude? Do you really think the first hundred hours or so of learning stopping and restarting your solo games will be affected?
Do you really plan on playing email without a good working knowledge of a game, an email game that even in the shortest scenarios will take weeks? ok enough said...

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 28

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/3/2004 1:19:45 AM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

Reality check?

Who had the attitude?

I simply support the concept of publishing a "finished product". It makes sense for a number of reasons.

The fact that that has been the premise of Matrix from the beginning.

There has been a great deal of discussion about all sorts of exceptions such as public beta, early release, and the like. None of it IMHO contributes to making the game better.

Have a little patience. There has been a number of petulant posts whining about release dates, "are we there yet?", and a number of other self-serving posts that do nothing to assist in finishing the product.

I have waited 4 years, another couple of weeks is a drop in the bucket.

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Reality check time, I did not post one nor see a suggestion to release except within the last 30 days... the version as is will be nearly identical to what is released, unless a major rework comes up. Within the last thirty days....
After rereading most of the posts, actually what was asked for was a quick release after gold, another impatient "demand"
Mike also misused these words "demands" and "put pressure on", believe me neither Matrix nor 2by 3 are feeling any pressure from the outside, after several years of development the stress to finish assuredly is self-generated. So why the attitude? Do you really think the first hundred hours or so of learning stopping and restarting your solo games will be affected?
Do you really plan on playing email without a good working knowledge of a game, an email game that even in the shortest scenarios will take weeks? ok enough said...

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to freeboy)

Post #: 29

RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/3/2004 1:24:56 AM

freeboy

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline

denisonh...not your attitude.. the previous poster boy for manners

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 30

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