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RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/8/2004 7:19:04 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Any chance we can download the manual prior to release? Give us something to read by the pool?


No idea, but it is a mute point because it is still not ready. It is actually holding up the game at the moment.

We'd be gold with it but since it's not ready Mike keeps adding new stuff since he is bored.

(in reply to doktor1957)
Post #: 91
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/9/2004 4:54:37 AM   
Becket


Posts: 1269
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Any chance we can download the manual prior to release? Give us something to read by the pool?


it is a mute point


I loathe you.






< Message edited by Becket -- 6/9/2004 2:55:51 AM >

_____________________________


"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 92
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/9/2004 4:54:54 AM   
Becket


Posts: 1269
Joined: 3/15/2004
Status: offline 		I rock the double post.

< Message edited by Becket -- 6/9/2004 2:55:39 AM >

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"The very word Moscow meant a lot to all of us....it meant all we had ever fought for" -Rokossovsky

(in reply to Becket)
Post #: 93
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 2:10:34 AM   
Temple

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/31/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag



No idea, but it is a mute point ...


Sigh.... "moot" point, please.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 94
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 2:36:58 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Temple

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag



No idea, but it is a mute point ...


Sigh.... "moot" point, please.


Why? If a point can't speak, why can't it be mute?

(in reply to Temple)
Post #: 95
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 3:02:27 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

Sigh.... "moot" point, please.


Spend 4 days ripping through over 100 turns of WitP and see if you can still walk forget about spell

(in reply to Temple)
Post #: 96
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 3:24:03 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Spend 4 days ripping through over 100 turns of WitP and see if you can still walk forget about spell


I'm just waiting for the opportunity to try . . . .

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 97
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 3:29:57 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Hey Frag at least it is you,and not I, getting the ire of the anti "mute" fiends, maybe a pole to polarize us further, those who spell and those who cannot? I meant spell check.. really really think a good post would be a few high points from the manual. Like how do I load a game ?How do I make my planes into armored shippbusters? Who who of the 2by3 world, others... anywho enough of the mute moot point pointless drivil.. can we play now? no ok

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 98
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 4:13:50 AM   
Deathtreader


Posts: 1039
Joined: 4/22/2003
From: Vancouver, Canada.
Status: offline
quote:


No idea, but it is a mute point because it is still not ready. It is actually holding up the game at the moment.

We'd be gold with it but since it's not ready Mike keeps adding new stuff since he is bored.


Hi,

If by "stuff" you mean more features for the game -- then I hope this takes long enough for Mike to get really bored. Bored enogh to be able to have enough time to plug in Apollo 11's surface interception suggestion perhaps?
Before everybody jumps all over me............... I'm as eager to get WITP as anyone but hey.............. no need to rush, right??


Rob.

_____________________________

So we're at war with the Russkies eh?? I suppose we really ought to invade or something. (Lonnnng pause while studying the map)
Hmmmm... big place ain't it??
- Sir Harry Flashman (1854)

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 99
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 5:40:17 AM   
Temple

 

Posts: 529
Joined: 7/31/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Sigh.... "moot" point, please.


Spend 4 days ripping through over 100 turns of WitP and see if you can still walk forget about spell


I'd like to give it a try

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 100
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 2:56:20 PM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Sigh.... "moot" point, please.


Spend 4 days ripping through over 100 turns of WitP and see if you can still walk forget about spell


As Super Chicken said to Fred - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."

_____________________________

Quote from Snigbert -

"If you mess with the historical accuracy, you're going to have ahistorical outcomes."

"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
ahistorical outcomes. "

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 101
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 3:19:57 PM   
foliveti


Posts: 371
Joined: 9/12/2002
From: Buffalo, NY
Status: offline
quote:


As Super Chicken said to Fred - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."


It has been quite a long time since I have heard a call for Super Chicken, Caaall for Super Chicken

_____________________________

Frank

(in reply to Sonny)
Post #: 102
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 4:52:44 PM   
Toro


Posts: 578
Joined: 4/9/2002
From: 16 miles southeast of Hell (Michigan, i.e.), US
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

Hey Frag at least it is you,and not I, getting the ire of the anti "mute" fiends, maybe a pole to polarize us further, those who spell and those who cannot? I meant spell check.. really really think a good post would be a few high points from the manual. Like how do I load a game ?How do I make my planes into armored shippbusters? Who who of the 2by3 world, others... anywho enough of the mute moot point pointless drivil.. can we play now? no ok


Let's see, your elipse needs three periods (e.g., "...") and the space after "...game" should go after the question mark. Shippbusters is spelled "shipbusters." Uhm...

Sorry, couldn't resist... forgive me...

(in reply to freeboy)
Post #: 103
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 5:02:45 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

How do I make my planes into armored shippbusters?


Sorry, *that* is a secret that will pass to the grave. I'm not telling!

(in reply to Toro)
Post #: 104
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 6:40:26 PM   
tondern


Posts: 38
Joined: 3/26/2004
From: Foggy Bottom, DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

Any chance we can download the manual prior to release? Give us something to read by the pool?


No idea, but it is a mute point because it is still not ready. It is actually holding up the game at the moment.

We'd be gold with it but since it's not ready Mike keeps adding new stuff since he is bored.


Well, well ! So if the manual gets ready, then we get to read it?
I'm on a looong plane ride in a few days and would love to read the manual. But that would be too perfect.

On the other hand if you are still fixing things . . .

1. Not enough guys seem to drown when a loaded transport is sunk.

2. For that matter merchantman and transports require far too much ordinance to sink. The average merchant (non-wartime construction) would be finished with one 500 pounder. This does not seem to happen often in WitP.

3. On the other hand Warships sink a tad too easily. (Damage control and (expensive) internal subdivision meant that durabilty is not proportional to size relative to a merchant or transport. War-built merchants and transports had much more attention given to internal subdivision, but still far short of naval standards.

4. Strafing attacks on merchants do not seem effective. They should be.

5. Lots of roads in strange places. On my excellent very detailed 1950 atlas (The London Times Mid Century edition in five large volumes) there are no roads between, for example Kuantan and Mersing on the Malay peninsula. Not even a foot path. WitP has a *major highway* there. Same for Point Victoria. And Akyab? No connection south to Rangoon although there was a trail east that could eventually (after many tortuos zigs and zags, unbridged river fordings, etc.) reach Mandalay and Magwe, (and of course the main road north).

6. Naval bombardments seem too effective.

7. Air-to-ship bomb accuracy for highly experienced pilots seems high. For inexperienced pilots it seems closer to reality.

8. AA fire seems too effective. Anecdotal quote from Rear Admiral Gene Laroque, destroyerman in the Pacific "Yes there were [a lot of air attacks] but it did not matter much because they could not hit us and we could not hit them." This remark was for the period after the introduction of the proximity fused 5", which increased the AA effectiveness of that weapon by over 300% (see Norman Friedman).

9. Japanese AI needs to do a better job of keeping merchantman and transports away from allied air.

10. Japanese AI needs to do a better job of protecting its bombers.

And I suppose there are a few other small things . . .

But I will shut up if you give us the draft manual. And of course the editor and the first few scenarios would do nicely, but I'm not greedy.

In Eager Anticipation,

Tondern

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 105
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 6:49:13 PM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline
quote:


As Super Chicken said to Fred - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."



It has been quite a long time since I have heard a call for Super Chicken, Caaall for Super Chicken


Can somebody explain "super chicken" to me? I had a girlfriend in high school who called me that, but I apparently have never seen the show (comic book?).

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to foliveti)
Post #: 106
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 6:52:08 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

1. Not enough guys seem to drown when a loaded transport is sunk.


Where on earth did you come up with that one from?

2/3'rds drown right off the bat!

the remaining 1/3rd roll to see how many get picked up by friendly ships. The ones that do get picked up have their abilities/readiness completely trashed.

(in reply to tondern)
Post #: 107
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:12:52 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tondern

On the other hand if you are still fixing things . . .

1. Not enough guys seem to drown when a loaded transport is sunk.



This appeared true in UV. In WitP....it seems better though i havn't tested it extensively.

quote:



2. For that matter merchantman and transports require far too much ordinance to sink. The average merchant (non-wartime construction) would be finished with one 500 pounder. This does not seem to happen often in WitP.



A major reason for this is because FIRE in the game is not well represented. This is an acknowledged weakness. Many transports that eventually were destroyed by small amounts of ordinance were due to the effects of blast and fire. Its also true that many merchant crews would not be in the same league in terms of damage control as a naval vessel. I believe Allied merchants also benefit from the ALlied DC bonus. I've thought that one way to fix might be to lower DUR a bit for them but it would require serious testing which there hasn't been time for

quote:



3. On the other hand Warships sink a tad too easily. (Damage control and (expensive) internal subdivision meant that durabilty is not proportional to size relative to a merchant or transport. War-built merchants and transports had much more attention given to internal subdivision, but still far short of naval standards.



in a non-torpedo situation, you have a point. the model used in UV/WitP is an all critical model, meaning any penetrating hit causes some form of sig damage. the "belt armor" Hit Location will often cause flooding so this particularily effects small warships. Improvements have been introduced. For example.....deck armor HL's penetrations tend to cause much less or sometimes even no FLT damage.

quote:



4. Strafing attacks on merchants do not seem effective. They should be.



See comments on FIRE. Enough attacks though do cumulate SYS damage which if Japan, is still serious as it will mean time in a repair yard already overloaded with the effort of trying to produce more merchants to replace outright losses

quote:



5. Lots of roads in strange places. On my excellent very detailed 1950 atlas (The London Times Mid Century edition in five large volumes) there are no roads between, for example Kuantan and Mersing on the Malay peninsula. Not even a foot path. WitP has a *major highway* there. Same for Point Victoria. And Akyab? No connection south to Rangoon although there was a trail east that could eventually (after many tortuos zigs and zags, unbridged river fordings, etc.) reach Mandalay and Magwe, (and of course the main road north).



Try marching to and from Akyab.....it takes forever.

quote:



6. Naval bombardments seem too effective.



They've been massively toned down. Casualties tend to # in the dozens now to the couple hundred. It used to be hundreds to a thousand +

quote:



7. Air-to-ship bomb accuracy for highly experienced pilots seems high. For inexperienced pilots it seems closer to reality.



How so? I have not noticed this. Its true DB accuracy was tweaked higher after extensive testing kept showing consistantly low yeilds even when high exp pilots from both sides were used.

quote:



8. AA fire seems too effective. Anecdotal quote from Rear Admiral Gene Laroque, destroyerman in the Pacific "Yes there were [a lot of air attacks] but it did not matter much because they could not hit us and we could not hit them." This remark was for the period after the introduction of the proximity fused 5", which increased the AA effectiveness of that weapon by over 300% (see Norman Friedman).



I conducted tests using the exact historical OOB for AA and compared them to the actual results. They matched almost exactly. Introduction of proximity "effect" starting in Feb 1943 (full effectiveness in oct 1943) showed substantial differences and was much more effective using the same ships with same refits.

quote:



9. Japanese AI needs to do a better job of keeping merchantman and transports away from allied air.



Yes....code is in place to make the AI aware of this.....but there's so many variables that it doesn't always work as well as intended. This is being worked on as we speak.

quote:



10. Japanese AI needs to do a better job of protecting its bombers.



Being worked on

quote:



And I suppose there are a few other small things . . .

But I will shut up if you give us the draft manual. And of course the editor and the first few scenarios would do nicely, but I'm not greedy.



No....not YOU!

_____________________________


(in reply to tondern)
Post #: 108
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:23:37 PM   
Jaypea

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline 		Are we gold yet? And if we are, can we get the manual then?

Oh come on, no one has asked this question in atleast the last 5 minutes

JP

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 109
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:27:33 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		are we there yet?

no

are we there yet?

no

are we there yet?

no

are we there yet?

NO

are we there yet?



oops! did i do that?

_____________________________


(in reply to Jaypea)
Post #: 110
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:28:41 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		I doubt the manual will be publically posted. Odds are you'll have to buy to see. The draft editor manual was more of a feature tease.

(in reply to Jaypea)
Post #: 111
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:28:47 PM   
Jaypea

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline
quote:

From: Alien spacecraft


That seems about right

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 112
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:32:40 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		thats right....dont make me use the particle beam on you.



_____________________________


(in reply to Jaypea)
Post #: 113
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:34:20 PM   
Jaypea

 

Posts: 262
Joined: 4/29/2004
From: New Jersey, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

thats right....dont make me use the particle beam on you.




Oh no bother . . . I am wearing my tinfoil hat today

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 114
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:41:23 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		got Quantum torpedoes too.

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(in reply to Jaypea)
Post #: 115
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:47:27 PM   
jhdeerslayer


Posts: 1194
Joined: 5/25/2002
From: Michigan
Status: offline 		Thought we'd be Gold by now...

(in reply to Jaypea)
Post #: 116
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:49:22 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		last minute fixes/improvements and bugs.

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(in reply to jhdeerslayer)
Post #: 117
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 7:56:54 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		hello toro,
No need for forgiveness, I see gaming as fun, not a recreation of life/war/peace etc.
The comment on spelling is releated to sir Brady, who taunts us unmercifully without using his checker, chess?, and we all hope the game is Both accurate and Fun, and that the updates after first release, remember bugs is a swear word, will be filled with neat features.

My newest request, the super flame throwing ground attack fighter-bomber. Sources at the History channel indicate this was a viable option in 42 for the ijn

(in reply to jhdeerslayer)
Post #: 118
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 8:07:13 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline 		We'll be ready as soon as David is. The manual is off for layout and David is just finishing up some music/sound items. We keep making small changes while we wait, but we don't expect anything major to change between now and going gold. I'd expect the actual gold will happen late next week if things go well. We still expect the game to be on sale at Origins on the 24th and digital download (with option to get CD) shortly after that. It won't be any sooner than that, and it shouldn't be later unless something major comes up.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 119
RE: Quick update on development progress. - 6/10/2004 8:10:09 PM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks Joel,
This really does look amazing..

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 120
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