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Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 6:51:45 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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I'm proud to say that I have a copy of
SSG's Complete Carriers at War for PC,
the I-Magic Great Battles Collectors' Edition: Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar,
Talonsoft's Civil war series of John Tiller featuring Shiloh, Antietam, and Gettysburg,
a Close Combat collection with parts I thru III,
Silent Hunter II and
Schwerpunkt's Russo-German War .
I'm sure many of you have me beat with numbers, but I just wanted to get some of the best games that have so far been released. For downloadable games, of course I have SPWaW and the free version of the Ardennes Offensive.
This also illustrates a valuable point: the genre has produced some classics, and so much history is left to be covered.
So, gents, what does YOUR collection look like?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 6/7/2004 11:52:10 PM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 8:19:46 AM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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Joined: 12/29/2000
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In the beginning there was Tactics II for me. And that game is sooooooo long gone sadly.
But Tactics II is merely a classic title announcing to the world how long I have been playing board wargames.
As a design it was not overly great, it tended to become WW1 almost instantly.

I have several games that most would call status symbol games, titles that announce "I was there when this was sold". sort of thing.

I am not overly happy I ditched my Squad Leader through GI materials, because even while they have no present value practically, they are now considered collectors item type items by some. I kept the boards of course.

But Squad Leader was a defining moment wargame for me. I now own the ASL design (and man what an accomplishment that is :) ).

Panzer Leader was also one of my first purchases that I still call as great as ever.

I once played Third Reich to death, but currently I own Advanced Third Reich, and have managed to score the Research manual introduced through the Rising Sun game that followed.
I suppose I would like to own A World at War, the unified rebuild of the entire system. But it ain't cheap.

I own World in Flames, and it is also a truely awesome design.

I have several of the Europa series. And I think monster wargames have never gotten better than Europa. But you have to have a massive playing area for these titles.
Just being able to set one up signals you have it good gaming wise.

I own The Longest Day, perhaps my most liked non low level tactical board game.

In computers, I have several titles I consider more than a little noteworthy.
I have the Panzer General series. I think they defined first how to make operational fun.
I have the Steel Panthers series, and I don't think anything else compares at squad level yet.
I have the Operational Art of War series through the Century of Warfare release currently. This one title can mimic almost an entire board game collection single handed.

My current love is Highway to the Reich. I think this is the FIRST game to do real time correctly, as well as apply it to an environment a wargamer will see as being a wargamer's environment.

There are many other games, even good ones in my collection, but those are my games of choice for defining moments in collecting and playing.
You can't wear the grognard label, if you don't like those games :)

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 8:49:28 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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OK, Les, I too, have many board games, but they only occupy space in my closet. Those days are past. The only thing they are worthy of is admiring the artistry of the maps and counters and reading the background material in the (gasp!) actual hard copy rulebooks. I can ruefully look at these and think, "what if I had a main-frame quality computer opponent to fight against in one of these? ". A super-computer HAL to be my opponent--this is still my dream--"I'm sorry, Glenn, but you can't attack me like that--this isn't logical--I will be forced to counterattack with my hidden reserves--why did you try to decieve me?" "Awww, crap, Hal--where did those guys come from?" HAL: "I learned from watching you". Yeah, that's a dream. Playing against a computer AI that picks up on your tactics and uses them against you. Someday it could happen, but only if AI researchers take the logic paths of chess and apply them to the variables of war, rather than making sure that the sitting duck enemy you kill is presented in 3D splendor with bloody gore to match.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 4:44:25 PM

Les_the_Sarge_9_1

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I like board games for the same reason a lot of people like things that can be relied upon.

My board games will always work exactly as they did the day I bought them.

Nothing my computer ever becomes will mean squat to each and every single board game.

I could throw away my computer and it would likely improve my board games :)

But in the final analysis, you are most certainly right.

For me, the ultimate software will not be any form of game, it will be an AI that is actually just an AI.

You install it, and tell it here is a wargame program, here is the rules file.
I want to begin at X difficulty level and play as such and such side.

And the AI proceeds to study "how" you play, and store each and every move, so that it can respond in kind.

That sounds futuristic no doubt. Back when I bought an IMB PS1 I thought I actually had a powerful computer as well :)
Today, that hunk of junk would be unable to store let alone play a simple anime music video. It wouldn't even play games today we would not even promote to the level of shareware garbage hehe.

So in the end, I will just sit here until the fascination with graphics fades and grows dull.
And if no one ever gets around to making that ultimate opponent, I will just be content to know, I still have all my board games that will always play just fine.

I by the way, usually buy games with an eye to solo play. If I can be both sides, I can still enjoy the simple ability to study the event through the game.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 5:21:49 PM

Shadow of the Condor

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From: Chicago
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I have UV, HTTR and KP - three of the greatest wargames ever!!!!

<ahem>

Okay, now that the appropiate tribute has been paid...

I also own the TalonSoft World at War series, and occasionally fire it up. As to board games, I still have the very first one I played against my father on the dining room table - Avalon Hill's Midway. My board game collection is limited to solitaire games. I have the Victory Game series AMBUSH! (with the two modules Purple Heart and Move Out!), Battle Hymn, and Carrier. Also from AH I have 1776 (I confess, I never actually played it) as well as B-17 Queen of the Skies.

Oh for th time to play them all...

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/8/2004 7:09:45 PM

sprior

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First "real" computer wargame played was "Laser Squad" on a Speccy. Laser squad grew into UFO and what fun that was first time out!

I have lost/had stolen/given away so many games it's not funny anymore. Casualties include Fire Brigade and Harpoon ( with NACV, MEDC and the other one...) for the Amiga. Current collection includes Steel Panthers 1, 2 & 3 as well as SPWaW, HttR, UV (still being played PBEM), TOAW in various flavours, Harpoon 3, Talonsoft's Waterloo and Borodino, all of the Close Combat series, Tiller's Bulge game. Down in the basement is a box full of CD's now retired but occasionally fetched up for old times sake... If anyone else jogs my memory about older fun games they may appear on this list too!

Memory already Jogged!

Anyone play Arnhem and Vulcan on a speccy?
And of course the V4V series on the PC

Worst PC game ever was a port of White Death - ugh!

I have a collection of board games far too big to list here but favourites (played many moons ago) include Flat Top, The Longest Day, ASL's Red Barricades and VG's Pacific War. The Gamers' OCS games still make regular outings, just been playing their Korea but loved DAK. Played Enemy at the Gates in a previous life and one day will again. Just setup GMT's AGN, played Downtown last Friday - enormous fun!

< Message edited by sprior -- 6/8/2004 11:13:29 AM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/9/2004 12:15:10 AM

Pippin

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I have too many to list. But as for my favourite series I own, I'd have to say I still enjoy the whole Panzer General series. I don't know, sometimes you could say it's a tad simplistic (compared to TOAW), but I guess it is that sentimental value behind it all. I think the most addictive version was the 3D "Scrotched Earth version". At least they fixed certain badly needed elements from the first 3D version "Assault". What was wrong with continuing with 2D anyway?.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/9/2004 5:19:58 AM

Brigz

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I too have way too many games to list and many of them are not worth the effort to play, but the one's I like best are:

Talonsoft's entire Civil War and Napoleonic Battles games
All of HPS's Civil War Battles series plus Campaign Wagram and Campaign 1776
Everything designed by Norm Koger
SPWAW
Interactive's Great Battles of Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar (If you're looking for ancients tactical computer games then these are what you are looking for. Look for the bundled Collector's Edition, 'cause it comes with a scenario editor.)
SP's Russo/German War

I mentioned Norm Koger above -- I recently bought Operational Art of War: Century of Warfare after giving up on OpArt I & II many years ago. Don't know what they did to it, but what a great game it is now! If you didn't like OpArt I & II, try Century of Warfare. Same game but better. And tons of user made scenarios out there. Plus a 19th century database someone put together. Very cool.

And now I'm getting very itchy to buy Medieval: Total War. A lot of people seem to like it and apparently it comes with an editor. Looks very interesting to me.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/9/2004 6:10:26 AM

Sarge

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REAL

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/9/2004 6:46:53 AM

RayM

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From: Marlton, NJ USA
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Hello KG!

This kind of question is really scary when you ry to answer it.

Like many others, I have a huge collection of PC games and air & naval sims.

Vintage: a bunch of Apple IIe SSI games, GNB series in "The Complete" box. GNB 2 & 3 as individual boxes, Carrier Strike in the box, Task Force 1942, The Complete Carrier at War Series, WWII: BOSP (by QQP) in the box, a very lengthy find. SimCanada games - Long Lance, 2 Pacific Storm games, In Harm's Way (all recent direct purchases from them). Several SSG Apple II games. War in Russia (in the box), Pacific War (in the box)

Battleground Series: Antietam, Shiloh.

Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far (still in shrinkwrap).

SH, SHII (never opened), Aces of the Deep, Wolfpack, Seawolf, Carriers at War II, Silent Service

Talonsoft: TOAW VOl I and COW

CMBO, CMBB

Caesar II, III.

Interactive's Great Battles of Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar

Jane's: 668I, Sub Command

A bunch of air sims: WWI, WWII, Korea

And last but not least the Matrix Games stuff: WiR, PACWAR, UV, HttR

Scary indeed.......

Ray

< Message edited by RayM -- 6/8/2004 11:47:30 PM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/10/2004 1:47:49 AM

KG Erwin

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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Ray, I didn't even consider the old C64 games I have. These include several SSG titles, such as the original Carriers At War, Battlefront, Decisive Battles of the American Civil War (all three), and Russia. There's also Red Storm Rising and a real gem called Vietnam from Microprose. Vietnam was a TOAW-style game that featured operational-level battles in that theater from 1954 to 1972. The hidden units, crafty AI, artillery firebases and airstrikes made this a game that really needs to be reworked for modern PCs. A quick DOS conversion was done, but it didn't work too well.

Since Matrix and SSG have a working relationship now, serious thought should be given to "gussying-up" these older games for Windows, with all the graphics enhancements and intuitive interfaces that could make for a fantastic updating of the classics. Specifically, I'm thinking of The Complete Carriers At War. I have the DOS version, which is OK, but suffers from the crude graphics of the 80s and a horribly clunky interface. This one could be reworked and updated for Windows and would surely be a best-seller. What do you think?

< Message edited by KG Erwin -- 6/9/2004 6:50:08 PM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/10/2004 6:06:34 PM

Real and Simulated Wars

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Tactical:
Close Combat III
Close Combat II
Close Combat IV
Combat Mission BO
Combat Mission BB
Combat MIssion AK
Eric Young's Squad Assault
Armoured Task Force

Operational:
Red Devils over Arnheim
Highway to the Reich
Korsun Pocket and Across the Dnper
Smolensk 41

Strategic:
Strategic Command

Tactical/Strategical:
Shogun total War
Medieval Total War

< Message edited by Chelco -- 6/10/2004 4:07:23 PM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/10/2004 6:46:51 PM

Reiryc

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Uncommon Valor
Highway to the Reich
Eric Young's Squad Assault
SPW@W
Panzer campaigns in the following titles:
Tobruk 41
Kharkov 42
Kursk 43
Smolensk 41
In the mail as I write:
Market Garden 44
Rezhev 42
Korsun 44
Campaign 1776
Napoleon's Russian Campaign
Close Combat 1 - 5
Axis and Allies
Shogun Total War
Medieval Total War
Panzer General 1
Steel Panthers 1
GI Combat
ToAW
Gettysburg
Napoleon in Russia
East Front 2
Divided Ground: Middle East Conflict 1948-1973

Have some others but they are in a box in the closet... Things like pacwar, war in russia and so forth that don't run on this computer.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/11/2004 7:08:17 AM

bradfordkay

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From: Olympia, WA
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Carriers at War
Carriers at War expansion kit
The Complete Carriers at War
GG's Pacific War
Harpoon 2
Steel Panthers , I, II, III, SPWaW
Talonsoft's Battleground series (CW & Napoleonic, all)
Talonsoft's East Front/West Front/Rising Sun
Age of Sail
Age of Sail 2 (what a disappointment, beautiful game poorly done, so much potetntial)
Close Combat 1 & 2
TOAW
Sid Meyer's Gettysburg and Antietam (best for hypothetical
brigade or division size battles)
Silent Hunter (wargame or sim?)
Battle of Britain
Bombing of the Reich
Uncommon Valor
WITP (very soon??)
UV Med (please???)

Before '94 I had never played a computer game, I was a fan of AH, Battleline, Yaquinto, Avalanche, GDW, SPI, Victory Games, etc...

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 6/11/2004 5:11:35 AM >

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/11/2004 6:16:20 PM

EricGuitarJames

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In no particular order:-

Airborne Assault - Highway to the Reich
Airborne Assault - Red Devils Over Arnhem
Decisive Battles of WW2 Vol.2 - Korsun Pocket
Uncommon Valour
Combat Mission - Beyond Overlord
Combat Mission - Barbarossa to Berlin
Combat Mission - Afrika Korps
Close Combat 4
Close Combat 5
TOAW 1
TOAW 2
Sid Meier's Gettysburg
Waterloo - Napoleon's Last Battle
Age of Sail 2
Shogun: Total War

I've been lucky enough to pick most of those up cheaply (TOAW2 cost me �1, Gettysburg was 50 pence!!). Only KP and UV were purchased at full retail price.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/11/2004 6:39:14 PM

CCB

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Too many to list, but my favorites are all SSI releases. Specifically Steel Panthers and Panzer General.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/12/2004 4:32:03 PM

ananias

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SPWAW
SP3
Shogun:Total War
Medieval:Total War (+Viking Invasion expansion pack)
Panzer General
Sid Meier�s Gettysburg

...and that�s just about it. A weak collection, I know. I think I forgot something, though.

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RE: Your PC Wargame Collection - 6/14/2004 2:17:50 PM

ravinhood

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quote:

three of the greatest wargames ever!!!!

LOL this never fails, I see these very same words "everytime" a new game hits the shelves, and then the next one and the next one and the next one.

The greatest wargame ever hasn't been created because ever is a long time. ;)

But, the greatest wargame of the past, well now, lets see for the PC? That would have to be (drum roll) "War of the Lance" ;) What do you mean you never heard of it? Why it's the greatest wargame EVER! lol

I challenge any of you grogs to find this lil ole commodore 64/PC game and just try to beat this AI on the hardest difficulty. Heck I still have a hard time on "normal", if I don't time everything just right, I can and do lose. Also though you have to like fantasy wargaming to enjoy this little jewel, but, ever since SPI's Swords and Sorcery I've always enjoyed fantasy wargaming. If you've never played that game, I'd suggest giving it a try as well. Much to learn, and there's no real history to compare tanks shell sizes and velocity etc. etc. that goes on so often with true to life military wargame simulations.

Otherwise on topic here, I have more wargames on the PC and board wargames, and magazine wargames than I will ever finsih playing in my lifetime. I'm more of a "collector" now and just play the ones that still stand out as the "best games EVER" lol Let's just say my collection between board wargames and PC games and magazine wargames has to be nearing the 100+ mark. But, some I would call wargames, others might not. I classify anything that deals with wars or battles in wars as wargames.

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