Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: Toro

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ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

...UV. The enemy carriers ALWAYS show up with a CV, CV, CVL configuration in roughly the same place at the same time every time. So once you figure that out, you sit a 4 CV "death star" in that spot and wait.

Zoomie, you do know that super CV fleets are penalized in WitP? A good thing, of course.

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ORIGINAL: ZOOMIE1980

Otherwise, there's nothing preventing a "gamey" Japanese player from running around the map with every CV and CVL jammed into a gigantic "death star" to almost invicible in the first two years of the main campaign game....

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Yes that is a good thing and realistic. Air Trafic control gets complicated, exponentially, with each added carrier. It's a wonder there weren't more planes lost at Midway from mid-air collisions over recovering carriers than in actual combat. If we start getting penalized in "efficency" with Air Combat TF that contain more than two CV's, then that is probably a realistic thing. Otherwise, there's nothing preventing a "gamey" Japanese player from running around the map with every CV and CVL jammed into a gigantic "death star" to almost invicible in the first two years of the main campaign game....

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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Yes that is a good thing and realistic. Air Trafic control gets complicated, exponentially, with each added carrier. It's a wonder there weren't more planes lost at Midway from mid-air collisions over recovering carriers than in actual combat. If we start getting penalized in "efficency" with Air Combat TF that contain more than two CV's, then that is probably a realistic thing. Otherwise, there's nothing preventing a "gamey" Japanese player from running around the map with every CV and CVL jammed into a gigantic "death star" to almost invicible in the first two years of the main campaign game....

The rules vary.

The coordination of airstrikes is affected by how many Carrier aircraft are based in the TF launching a strike. The chance of uncoordination is doubled under the following circumstances:

- Allied TF in 1942 and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 100 + rnd (100).
- Allied TF in 1943 and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 150 + rnd (150).
- Allied TF in 1944 or later and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 200 + rnd (200).

- Japanese TF at any time and the number of aircraft in the TF is greater than 200 + rnd (200).

Just to be clear here ... even when not exceeding these numbers, there is *always* some chance of uncoordination.

People in the UV world call this a *bug* because they don't understand it, but it exists there to a lesser extent already.

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ORIGINAL: Kid

I for one would love for the Japanese player to put all of his carriers in one TF. This way I'll know where they all are and then my 1 and 2 Carrier TFs will rule the seas in their areas.

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Is that why the initial historical PH attack can vary so much in its results? 6CV's wasn't it? That would stand a good chance for the Japanese player to incur an uncoordination penalty right from the get-go.

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there's not much preventing a rogue player from putting together a completely unrealistic 8CV TF "death star" and taking it to San Francisco, Brisbane, Pearl Harbor, etc

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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there's not much preventing a rogue player from putting together a completely unrealistic 8CV TF "death star" and taking it to San Francisco, Brisbane, Pearl Harbor, etc

Fuel

You have no idea just how much fuel a death star eats, but you will learn! Plan on loading up about 4 separate tanker fleets to get KB back into the SRA area and still have her fly aircraft.

It would take most of the tankers that Japan has to harrass any of these places. The special first turn rule makes them only use 3 hexes worth of fuel to get there. Coming back is a whole different story!

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ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

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there's not much preventing a rogue player from putting together a completely unrealistic 8CV TF "death star" and taking it to San Francisco, Brisbane, Pearl Harbor, etc

Fuel

You have no idea just how much fuel a death star eats, but you will learn! Plan on loading up about 4 separate tanker fleets to get KB back into the SRA area and still have her fly aircraft.

It would take most of the tankers that Japan has to harrass any of these places. The special first turn rule makes them only use 3 hexes worth of fuel to get there. Coming back is a whole different story!

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Do the real math. 1667 turns x 2 (you want to play both sides once of the grand campaign).

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"Unlimited Free Fuel"

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ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

The plane limit per task force doesn't really matter because you can put 3 task forces of 2 CVs each into the same hex and when they launch their strikes they will still arrive as one big strike. At least, that is the way it works in UV. If they are going to all of this trouble I hope they at least make strikes from seperate task forces also have a chance of miscoordination. Otherwise the 3 tf of 2 CVs will completely subvert their attempt and the Death Star will live again (not withstanding fuel and map size issues).

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ORIGINAL: AmiralLaurent

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ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

The plane limit per task force doesn't really matter because you can put 3 task forces of 2 CVs each into the same hex and when they launch their strikes they will still arrive as one big strike. At least, that is the way it works in UV. If they are going to all of this trouble I hope they at least make strikes from seperate task forces also have a chance of miscoordination. Otherwise the 3 tf of 2 CVs will completely subvert their attempt and the Death Star will live again (not withstanding fuel and map size issues).

The worst problem with the death satr tactic is the CAP put by all these CV, that made it almost impossible to hit. And CAP coordination was not so good before 1944 and widespread use of radar controled CAp from special teams aboard US ships. I hope there is some malus applied to super CAP. If 3 TF of 4 CV (each with a CAP of 60 fighters) are in the same hex, a raid on one of the 3 TF should only face the 60 of this TF + some tens of the others, and not 180.

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ORIGINAL: Grotius

Yeah, I found the exchange. I asked whether the death star limit was a per-TF limit or a per-hex limit, and DoomedMantis seemed to reply that it's a per-hex limit. It's in the thread "But yea how is the AI," second page.

Maybe someone can clarify here once and for all, though. Can I circumvent the anti-death star rules by piling 6 CVs into 6 TFs all in one hex? If I do that, can I still get a hornet's next of 200 fighters circling all 6 CVs, or does the anti-Death Star code impede this tactic? I hope it does.

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ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

I would LOVE for someone to explain to me the justification for the "anti-deathstar" rule?
If the Japanese can START the war with a 6-carrier TF attacking PH and keep 4-5 of
them together up through the Indian Ocean raid and Midway---then WHAT can possibly
be the justification for thei garbage?

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ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

We'll be ready as soon as David is. The manual is off for layout and David is just finishing up some music/sound items. We keep making small changes while we wait, but we don't expect anything major to change between now and going gold. I'd expect the actual gold will happen late next week if things go well. We still expect the game to be on sale at Origins on the 24th and digital download (with option to get CD) shortly after that. It won't be any sooner than that, and it shouldn't be later unless something major comes up.

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ORIGINAL: Sonny

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ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

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As Super Chicken said to Fred - "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it."



It has been quite a long time since I have heard a call for Super Chicken, Caaall for Super Chicken

Can somebody explain "super chicken" to me? I had a girlfriend in high school who called me that, but I apparently have never seen the show (comic book?).

Maybe you girlfriend was calling you a chicken in the extreme!

Super Chicken was one of three cartoons in a cartoon show of long ago. There was George of the Jungle, Super Chicken and Tom Slick (and his Thunderbolt Grease Slapper).

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ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

I would LOVE for someone to explain to me the justification for the "anti-deathstar" rule?
If the Japanese can START the war with a 6-carrier TF attacking PH and keep 4-5 of
them together up through the Indian Ocean raid and Midway---then WHAT can possibly
be the justification for thei garbage?

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Well you do start getting coordination penalties when the number aircraft exceeds about 200 or so, mostly, I assume in CV vs CV combat as attacking a land target absent enemy CV's was a lot easier to coordinate large number of AC. I imagine a Japanese Midway size force is about as large a force as one may be willing to muster in this game. We'll see.

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I used to watch it, way back when.

Man, I'm getting old.

Mike