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RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 4:51:02 AM   
mjk428

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

quote:

ORIGINAL: jnier

I think for most people, getting the game by digital download is much less of a chore than having to wait for the UPS guy.

Yup, as well as the wait being negated for folks in other parts of the world...I think its a great descision.


I think it's great that digital download will be available for people that want to use that option. It's just not my preferred choice; and as of now, the only other choice seems to be going to Origins.

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Post #: 31
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 5:28:37 AM   
dwesolick


Posts: 593
Joined: 6/24/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		My understanding (from reading posts by Matrix brass the way economists must read statements by Alan Greenspan---checking all the subtle nuances and variations in tone, emphasis etc) is that DD will be available some days after Origins and then order by mail will go into effect sometime after that. So, by mid-July(??) you should be able to either download or order by mail...your choice.

Matrix can correct any of the above if it is in error.




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< Message edited by dwesolick -- 6/16/2004 3:31:01 AM >

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Post #: 32
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 12:23:07 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

We will be as accomodating as needed.

Bye...

Michael Wood

quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

My understanding (from reading posts by Matrix brass the way economists must read statements by Alan Greenspan---checking all the subtle nuances and variations in tone, emphasis etc) is that DD will be available some days after Origins and then order by mail will go into effect sometime after that. So, by mid-July(??) you should be able to either download or order by mail...your choice.

Matrix can correct any of the above if it is in error.




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Post #: 33
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 2:13:17 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

It seems to me that logically the purchasing options should be such that they encourage buyers rather than force them into a choice they don't like.


Your options are to either download it directly or select or "CD on demand" option once you purchase the game. That way you will get a physically copy shipped to you (you can still download also if you like). And the other option is to visit us at Origins

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Post #: 34
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 2:15:47 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: kev_uk

quote:

ORIGINAL: jnier

I think for most people, getting the game by digital download is much less of a chore than having to wait for the UPS guy.

Yup, as well as the wait being negated for folks in other parts of the world...I think its a great descision.


I think it's great that digital download will be available for people that want to use that option. It's just not my preferred choice; and as of now, the only other choice seems to be going to Origins.


Wrong, since all of the games we offer as digital download also have a "CD on demand" option available. Meaning that when the game gets released in our E-Store you can either download the minute you buy it or select the CD on demand option and have it shipped to you (and still be able to download if you wish).

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Post #: 35
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 11:22:50 PM   
mjk428

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

Wrong, since all of the games we offer as digital download also have a "CD on demand" option available. Meaning that when the game gets released in our E-Store you can either download the minute you buy it or select the CD on demand option and have it shipped to you (and still be able to download if you wish).


I'm glad I'm wrong but the only way I was able to verify this and see how much it would cost was to go through the order process for some random product at the store and then not go through with the transaction. The "CD on demand" option costs another $10 bucks, so it's not really "on demand" as much as "available". I apparently would also have the option of purchasing "download insurance", which rather than being assuring, is actually a bit disturbing. For $70 I would expect my download to be "insured".

I don't know who came up with this marketing scheme but I'd suggest they go back to the drawing board. Many people have never bought anything by digital download and are likely to balk at paying extra just to get a hard copy. The purchasing options and lack of info on them in the appropriate places come off pretty crappy to me.

A scenario disk for Korsun Pocket makes a wonderful candidate for digital download. A monster wargame does not IMO.

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Post #: 36
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/16/2004 11:53:23 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

I apparently would also have the option of purchasing "download insurance", which rather than being assuring, is actually a bit disturbing. For $70 I would expect my download to be "insured".


"What is Extended Download Service?"

"Protect your purchase with Extended Download Service. We will keep a back-up copy of your digital file should you need to re-download it for any reason. This service will enable you to make multiple downloads of digital computer software products purchased in a single order and downloaded from this website for a period of two (2) years after the date of purchase."

That means that should you crash your machine in the next two years and have been too lazy to make a backup during all that time you can download the game *again*. Find any other company that will offer to replace your game for two years after you get it. Good luck!

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Post #: 37
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:01:00 AM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		That's actually why I will get the CD in addition to the DD. (I never backup my hard drive)
I know; it takes too long.

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Post #: 38
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:09:51 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
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From: Western USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

I apparently would also have the option of purchasing "download insurance", which rather than being assuring, is actually a bit disturbing. For $70 I would expect my download to be "insured".


"What is Extended Download Service?"

"Protect your purchase with Extended Download Service. We will keep a back-up copy of your digital file should you need to re-download it for any reason. This service will enable you to make multiple downloads of digital computer software products purchased in a single order and downloaded from this website for a period of two (2) years after the date of purchase."

That means that should you crash your machine in the next two years and have been too lazy to make a backup during all that time you can download the game *again*. Find any other company that will offer to replace your game for two years after you get it. Good luck!


As you say, it's easy enough to make a backup myself so big deal.

I don't know if "Extended Download Service" is the same as "Download Insurance". I'm not concerned about two years down the road, I just want to make sure that if my download is corrupted that I won't have to pay extra to insure that I get my $70 worth. And the issue isn't about money. I won't pay extra for something without actually getting something of value for my additional charge. Right now it seems that people that aren't willing to just download the thing have to pay extra. A game of this scope being sold primarily as a download seems crazy to me.

Also, I'm starting to think that the "CD on demand" is nothing more than I could do myself if I backed up my download. What I want is a boxed version of the game just as UV had. Something with actual game info with it, not just a disc. If that's not available, then this info needs to be on the official website and the reference to pre-orders should be removed.

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Post #: 39
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:16:57 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		"All download products purchased through the online store have a 30-day window in which you can complete a download. In the event the download file needs to be accessed after 30 days you have the option of purchasing Extended Download Service."

You really do need to read the help information under the Customer Service. It covers all of this in great detail.

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Post #: 40
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:33:08 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

"All download products purchased through the online store have a 30-day window in which you can complete a download. In the event the download file needs to be accessed after 30 days you have the option of purchasing Extended Download Service."

You really do need to read the help information under the Customer Service. It covers all of this in great detail.


"complete a download"

I read that as I can download one time and will have 30 days to complete it.

As I said, my concern is if my download is corrupted. In other words completed but not working properly.

Now, if I have 30 days of download access until I have a satisfactory download, that's a whole different story - and would be very reasonable.

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Post #: 41
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:55:05 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
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From: Bonn, Germany
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quote:

Now, if I have 30 days of download access until I have a satisfactory download, that's a whole different story - and would be very reasonable.


That is the case.

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Post #: 42
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 12:56:44 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

Now, if I have 30 days of download access until I have a satisfactory download, that's a whole different story - and would be very reasonable.


That is the case.


Thank you for clarifying that for me.

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Post #: 43
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:06:29 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428
I don't know who came up with this marketing scheme but I'd suggest they go back to the drawing board. Many people have never bought anything by digital download and are likely to balk at paying extra just to get a hard copy. The purchasing options and lack of info on them in the appropriate places come off pretty crappy to me.

A scenario disk for Korsun Pocket makes a wonderful candidate for digital download. A monster wargame does not IMO.


This marketing scheme is pretty common in the software industry allready. Just for example Extensis is offering "digital delivery" for all of it´s products since years allready. Extensis is just one example. I have ordered various pieces of software allready this way, in the last two years. So we´re not the first here


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Post #: 44
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:07:25 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

Now, if I have 30 days of download access until I have a satisfactory download, that's a whole different story - and would be very reasonable.


That is the case.


Thank you for clarifying that for me.


Here´s the actuall quote from our E-Store:

"What if the download stops before it is complete?

This site provides downloads that adheres to the HTTP 1.1 specification that allows for re-startable downloads. Therefore, if your download stops or is interrupted before it is complete, simply press the begin download button again and the download should resume where it left off. If you need to get to the re-download page click here."

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Post #: 45
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:22:13 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marc Schwanebeck

quote:

Now, if I have 30 days of download access until I have a satisfactory download, that's a whole different story - and would be very reasonable.


That is the case.


Thank you for clarifying that for me.


Here´s the actuall quote from our E-Store:

"What if the download stops before it is complete?

This site provides downloads that adheres to the HTTP 1.1 specification that allows for re-startable downloads. Therefore, if your download stops or is interrupted before it is complete, simply press the begin download button again and the download should resume where it left off. If you need to get to the re-download page click here."


I may have to retract my "thank you".

This only seems to address interrupted downloads not corrupted ones.

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Post #: 46
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:38:17 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:



This only seems to address interrupted downloads not corrupted ones.


A download get´s only corrupt when it´s not completed. When it´s completed then everything´s fine. Since everybody is basically downloading the same file (you don´t get a custom one of course) we make damn sure that this base file is not corrupt when we have uploaded it.

< Message edited by Marc Schwanebeck -- 6/17/2004 6:41:35 AM >

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Post #: 47
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:44:24 AM   
miclogic


Posts: 14
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Open Space (Wyoming)
Status: offline 		"What is Extended Download Service?"

"Protect your purchase with Extended Download Service. We will keep a back-up copy of your digital file should you need to re-download it for any reason. This service will enable you to make multiple downloads of digital computer software products purchased in a single order and downloaded from this website for a period of two (2) years after the date of purchase."

That means that should you crash your machine in the next two years and have been too lazy to make a backup during all that time you can download the game *again*. Find any other company that will offer to replace your game for two years after you get it. Good luck!

I'll tell you another company that will replace the game forever (seemingly, although I'm sure there is a limit), Stardock, the company that developed and markets Galactic Civlizations, among other games and products. Not only can you buy the electronic downloadable version of the game and upgrade forever (again, let's be real - for a long time probably), but you can get the CD and game shipped to you for the same price + shipping costs. I bought the downloadable version, and I've had to re-download it a couple of times, once when I bought a laptop (cheapo oldie) that I wanted to play it on, and another time when my harddrive crashed. They have been tremendous in their support of the product. A simple email and the problem is solved. That's the way it should be done. This paying for insurance to 'protect' your download and paying extra for the CD is a bunch of hooey! I have really enjoyed UV, and think it is one of the finer games available today. I have every reason to believe the follow up game will be even better, but the tremendous hike in price and these extra gimicks are really giving me pause as to whether I want to do business in this way. I know threats get you nowhere, there is a limit to one's patience and such. One major problem I have had with other electronic purchases has been the loss of a hard drive, without sufficient backup. I don't have a CD burner, and likely won't until I purchase a new computer, which is another 6 months off. Yet for me to buy this game I am practically forced to buy the 'insurance' or pay extra for the CD option, because I know I will want to play it on a new computer in the future. I don't see a real alternative here for others like myself because we can't make our own copies. How 'bout a bit of lovin for those of us on a budget, friends!!

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Post #: 48
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 1:45:13 AM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline 		Adding to this, you can have the same problems with corrupted files or even bad CDs if you purchase a physicall retail product in your favourite mall. That´s why we and Digital River have a customer service and you have your purchase invoice. That way we can handle most problems pretty fast.

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Post #: 49
RE: Digital Download vs. Origins - 6/17/2004 1:58:16 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
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From: East Brunswick, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

You'll be better off sitting with the Manual open in a PDF reader and being able to search through it *while* you have WitP up on the screen. Never understood why people insist on killing trees when they can read it on screen with a good search ability too!


In one of the threads it was shown that the average age of a potential Witp player in 35-40 (myself included). Not all of us are tech savy. I still kill trees but I try to do it with a laser printer at work so I don't have to pay for it. What's wrong with a printed manual? Besides, it is hard to highlight important sections on the monitor! I already have too many white out stains on mine.

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Post #: 50
RE: Digital Download vs. Origins - 6/17/2004 2:02:03 AM   
Mr.Frag


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quote:

In one of the threads it was shown that the average age of a potential Witp player in 35-40 (myself included). Not all of us are tech savy. I still kill trees but I try to do it with a laser printer at work so I don't have to pay for it. What's wrong with a printed manual? Besides, it is hard to highlight important sections on the monitor! I already have too many white out stains on mine.


The search feature in a reader helps you get where you need in a hurry. A 200+ page manual is not quite as flexible.

You can add highlights and/or cut and paste text into your own crib sheet *then* print out a much smaller version, like a cheat sheet to remind you of things.

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Post #: 51
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 2:02:26 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Wood

Hello...

We will be as accomodating as needed.

Bye...

Michael Wood

I see you guys are in Woodbridge. Any way for a fellow Jersey boy from East Brunswick to show up at the door with cash in hand and save to agony of shipping time?

quote:

ORIGINAL: dwesolick

My understanding (from reading posts by Matrix brass the way economists must read statements by Alan Greenspan---checking all the subtle nuances and variations in tone, emphasis etc) is that DD will be available some days after Origins and then order by mail will go into effect sometime after that. So, by mid-July(??) you should be able to either download or order by mail...your choice.

Matrix can correct any of the above if it is in error.






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Post #: 52
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 2:11:52 AM   
KevH

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		My requirements from DD is to be able to download the install files over a fast internet link at work, burn them to a CD, then bring it home and install on my home PC.

I guess that if we are not able to (re)download our purchase within a reasonable number of days due to a hardware/software issue following the download I had better keep my fingers crossed and burn several CDs just in case!

I understand the princial of the Extended Download Service, but once I know that I have a error free installation, I am quite capable of making sure that I have several backups of the installation files. I would just like the peace of mind that if, for any reason, my first attempt does not result in a successfull install then I can try again without having to purchase the game again...

Kev

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Post #: 53
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 4:39:31 AM   
floyd17

 

Posts: 91
Joined: 12/22/2001
From: Ellicott, Colorado
Status: offline 		I am confused. Since I do not have digital or high speed download capabilities will the game WITP be available to be ordered from Matrix Games ( Like Uncommon Valor was.) ? Thanks in advance.

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Post #: 54
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 4:56:49 AM   
GameTester


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Floyd Rehkopf

I am confused. Since I do not have digital or high speed download capabilities will the game WITP be available to be ordered from Matrix Games ( Like Uncommon Valor was.) ? Thanks in advance.


I think you will be able to have a CD shipped to you as well.

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Post #: 55
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 5:25:58 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		It would be nice if you guys actually read what was posted instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again.

If you can't download a couple hundred megs in 30 days, it is time to find a easier hobby, like perhaps knitting.

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Post #: 56
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 5:31:51 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It would be nice if you guys actually read what was posted instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again.

If you can't download a couple hundred megs in 30 days, it is time to find a easier hobby, like perhaps knitting.


Hey Mr. Frag -

Is attacking customers part of your job description?

If so, you're doing a bang up job. If not, you may want to hold back a little.

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Post #: 57
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 5:42:41 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It would be nice if you guys actually read what was posted instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again.

If you can't download a couple hundred megs in 30 days, it is time to find a easier hobby, like perhaps knitting.


Hey Mr. Frag -

Is attacking customers part of your job description?

If so, you're doing a bang up job. If not, you may want to hold back a little.


Perhaps you should try not insulting the Matrix guys with accusations that they will rip you off if you have a download probelm and my fangs might not come out so much.

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Post #: 58
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 5:48:23 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjk428

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

It would be nice if you guys actually read what was posted instead of just repeating the same thing over and over again.

If you can't download a couple hundred megs in 30 days, it is time to find a easier hobby, like perhaps knitting.


Hey Mr. Frag -

Is attacking customers part of your job description?

If so, you're doing a bang up job. If not, you may want to hold back a little.


Perhaps you should try not insulting the Matrix guys with accusations that they will rip you off if you have a download probelm and my fangs might not come out so much.


Perhaps you should pull your head out of your arse and notice I did no such thing.

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Post #: 59
RE: Pre-orders? - 6/17/2004 5:54:53 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

As I said, my concern is if my download is corrupted. In other words completed but not working properly.


I guess those words didn't come from your keyboard and get posted under your id eh?

quote:

This only seems to address interrupted downloads not corrupted ones.


Neither did those ones either eh?

quote:

The purchasing options and lack of info on them in the appropriate places come off pretty crappy to me.


Nor did that?

Hmm, I guess someone must be using your id. Better change your password.

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Post #: 60
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