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Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 2:06:14 AM   
KevH

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		Whilst waiting, I have created a csv file (from MS Excel) containing aircraft data using screenshots kindly posted in another thread. Open in Excel and use filtering to find the best and the worst aircraft in the game (and my mistakes).

Its midnight here it North Wales. Thanks to Erik for the update, we can now get some shuteye in preparation for some long campaigns ahead.

Kev

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< Message edited by KevH -- 7/1/2004 12:10:22 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 2:25:23 AM   
highblooded

 

Posts: 67
Joined: 5/27/2004
Status: offline 		Thank You very much!

(in reply to KevH)
Post #: 2
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 2:31:54 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		Most usefull thread all day...
Thank for taking the time to do this for the community.

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(in reply to highblooded)
Post #: 3
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 3:53:39 AM   
BoerWar


Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline 		This is handy. Thank you very much.

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 4
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 4:02:56 AM   
stinger5050

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 6/30/2003
From: Rochester NY
Status: offline 		Thanks

(in reply to BoerWar)
Post #: 5
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 4:04:09 AM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline 		Mucho gracias

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(in reply to KevH)
Post #: 6
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 5:48:18 AM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

Most usefull thread all day...
Thank for taking the time to do this for the community.


One of the FEW useful threads these past few days. Thanks KevH!

< Message edited by brisd -- 6/30/2004 7:48:36 PM >

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"I propose to fight it out on this line if it takes all summer."-Note sent with Congressman Washburne from Spotsylvania, May 11, 1864, to General Halleck. - General Ulysses S. Grant

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 7
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 5:52:27 AM   
KG_laugi

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 10/27/2000
From: Baltimore
Status: offline 		how do i do to send to exel?

(in reply to brisd)
Post #: 8
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 12:12:31 PM   
mc3744


Posts: 1957
Joined: 3/9/2004
From: Italy
Status: offline 		Thanks a lot.
Useful for playing ... and for killing time while waiting

(in reply to KevH)
Post #: 9
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 12:23:48 PM   
Jonny_B


Posts: 299
Joined: 5/20/2004
From: Dunnellon, Florida
Status: offline

Mr. KG_laugi:

Open file, from this forum.
Right mouse click on file page, scroll down the list until you reach, Export to Microsoft Excel. Left mouse click on this option.

If you have excel, nbsa.

(in reply to KG_laugi)
Post #: 10
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 12:33:51 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		Can anyone explain me the Mvr-Tab? If it is just the turn rate, many values are way off!

(in reply to Jonny_B)
Post #: 11
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 12:37:10 PM   
PlacidDragon

 

Posts: 117
Joined: 6/15/2004
From: Norway
Status: offline 		I would imagine its short for manouver, the spesific plane's "agility" in general.

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 12
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 1:05:55 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		That's the problem! What does it tell me? So how do I read the table properly to interpret the "combat strength" of an aircraft in the game? I mean, the agility alone does hardly reflect its capabilities! Does the F6F (Mvr 36) really turn better than a A6M2 (Mvr 35)? Some types are designed for dogfights, others for BnZ. I had this problem in BTR as well. I think it's more than just the agility, but I don't know what exactly it is! How is the firing power determined? Mass output per second? I wonder how such a complex thing like air combat can be simulated with stats, tables and formulas. This is all too abstract for me!

(in reply to PlacidDragon)
Post #: 13
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 2:17:02 PM   
KevH

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 5/29/2004
Status: offline 		It would be nice to know the importance weighting of the different attributes. Perhaps there is a section in the manual covering this area?

I would GUESS that the importance depends on the combat situation. i.e. Rate of Climb is important for fighters on CAP. Higher Gun power is useful for causing damage to aircaft with better durablity.

Kev

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 14
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 3:11:56 PM   
JohnK

 

Posts: 285
Joined: 2/8/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: nico71

That's the problem! What does it tell me? So how do I read the table properly to interpret the "combat strength" of an aircraft in the game? I mean, the agility alone does hardly reflect its capabilities! Does the F6F (Mvr 36) really turn better than a A6M2 (Mvr 35)? Some types are designed for dogfights, others for BnZ. I had this problem in BTR as well. I think it's more than just the agility, but I don't know what exactly it is! How is the firing power determined? Mass output per second? I wonder how such a complex thing like air combat can be simulated with stats, tables and formulas. This is all too abstract for me!


I should hope Mvr is more than just turn rate, as the turn rate of aircraft continually DECLINED from 1939 to 1945 :-)


The F6F had a much better ROLL rate, as did all American aircraft (especially at high speeds) as the A6M2. For an intelligent pilot, that actually matters more than maximum turn rate.


All sorts of things should go into "Mvr" other than who can turn the tightest.....climb rate, roll rate, turn radius at high speeds (often much different relatively from turn radius at low speeds) etc.

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 15
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 3:49:56 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline
quote:

I should hope Mvr is more than just turn rate, as the turn rate of aircraft continually DECLINED from 1939 to 1945 :-)


While speed and fire power have increased! This is what makes this factor so confusing!

quote:


The F6F had a much better ROLL rate, as did all American aircraft (especially at high speeds) as the A6M2. For an intelligent pilot, that actually matters more than maximum turn rate.


And even more important the speed, climb rate and fire power. And ideal BnZ aircraft! I really don't want to engage into a dogfight against a Zero with this 6.5 tons monster! LOL! In this regard I wonder why the Rata has such an incredibly high climb rate and a very poor manouver-value! This winged beer can can turn on a dime, but is rather slow.

quote:


All sorts of things should go into "Mvr" other than who can turn the tightest.....climb rate, roll rate, turn radius at high speeds (often much different relatively from turn radius at low speeds) etc.


All of this condensed into a single number! Cool!

(in reply to JohnK)
Post #: 16
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 6:28:26 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline 		In SeeKreig, maneuverability was: square root of ((wing area / empty weight) * 0.178). This was the minimum speed that the plane could make a 2G turn. Maneuverability was then put into another formulato find overall offensive rating.

(in reply to nico71)
Post #: 17
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:15:50 PM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Aircraft data incomplete???

I see only one KI-43 (Ki-43-Ib) there were two (KI-43-I, KI-43-II).
Even UV had two!!!

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 18
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:20:15 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		trouble with trusting screen shot data ... people scroll a little too far at times.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 19
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:35:01 PM   
Xargun

 

Posts: 3690
Joined: 2/14/2004
From: Near Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		Remember to take all the data with a grain of salt. I, for one, have no idea how they came up with these numbers - but they are probably based on average performance by the aircraft. Also, some categories are lumped into one - like Maneuver - its probably turn speed, turn ration, etc... Its an abstract number.

As for the difference between a 35 and 36 maneuverability.. Its only 1 point - not much difference. BUt a 35 attacking a 12 ? The plane with the 12 is dogmeat... I personally think one of the important ratings is Guns - a lot of Japanese planes just don't have the firepower of their US counterparts and that means a lot - My Zeke looses a wing, while your Hellcat gets a few holes in it.

Xargun

PS Fo a bomber killed - you would probably want good climb rate and firepower.. Its not hard to hit a B17 or such with bullets - but if the bullets are that powerful....

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 20
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:36:54 PM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

In SeeKreig, maneuverability was: square root of ((wing area / empty weight) * 0.178). This was the minimum speed that the plane could make a 2G turn. Maneuverability was then put into another formulato find overall offensive rating.



I'll probably kick myself when you tell me, but what is SeeKreig?

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Post #: 21
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:49:17 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arnir
I'll probably kick myself when you tell me, but what is SeeKreig?


http://www.seekrieg.com/

(in reply to Arnir)
Post #: 22
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 7:51:45 PM   
nico71


Posts: 121
Joined: 9/2/2003
Status: offline 		It's interesting to see that wargamers deal with tables day in and day out, but I'm astonished that no one can give me a definite answer. I have feared that I was the only one who doesn't really understand this stuff. Good to know that I'm not alone here! LOL! Okay, it seems that I simply have to believe the numbers. After all it's not a flight sim, and it's all about dice rolling and probabilities. But I still don't know how to determine the aircraft capabilities, especially when comparing aircraft types! I haven't found this information in BTR and UV either.

(in reply to Xargun)
Post #: 23
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:04:53 PM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline 		Thanks.

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Post #: 24
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:14:30 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

Aircraft data incomplete???

I see only one KI-43 (Ki-43-Ib) there were two (KI-43-I, KI-43-II).
Even UV had two!!!


There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 25
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:36:46 PM   
Damien Thorn

 

Posts: 1107
Joined: 7/24/2003
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.



So it's easy, we just have to look at the pictures and figure out which one is not on the list.

(in reply to Subchaser)
Post #: 26
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:40:09 PM   
Oznoyng

 

Posts: 818
Joined: 4/16/2004
From: Mars
Status: offline 		Okay, now that I am slicing and dicing this info with a spreadsheet... Can you post something on the upgrade paths?

(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 27
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:44:50 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Here's Japan:

ID Name Upg
1 A5M4 Claude 3
2 A6M2-N Rufe
3 A6M2 Zero 5
4 A6M3 Zero 5
5 A6M5 Zeke 6
6 A6M8 Zeke 7
7 A7M2 Reppu
9 N1K1-J George 11
10 J2M Jack 11
11 J7W Shinden
12 J1N1-S Irving 13
13 C6N1-S Myrt
15 D1A Susie 16
16 D3A Val 17
17 D4Y Judy
18 A6M5c Zeke
20 B4U Jean 21
21 B5N Kate 22
22 B6N Jill 23
23 B7A Grace
25 G3M Nell 26
26 G4M1 Betty 27
27 G4M2 Betty
28 G4M2e Betty
29 P1Y Frances
31 J1N1-R Irving 33
32 C5M Babs 31
33 C6N Myrt
35 H6K4 Mavis 36
36 H8K Emily
38 H6K2-L Mavis
39 L1N1 Thora
40 L3Y Tina
41 E14Y1 Glen
42 E8N Dave 44
43 F1M2 Pete
44 E13A1 Jake
45 E7K2 Alf
47 Ki-27 Nate 49
48 Ki-43-Ib Oscar 55
49 Ki-43-IIa Oscar 49
50 Ki-44-IIb Tojo 56
51 Ki-45 KAIa Nick 53
52 Ki-45 KAIb Nick 59
53 Ki-45 KAIc Nick
54 Ki-46-III KAI Dinah 59
55 Ki-61 KAIc Tony 58
56 Ki-84-Ia Frank 57
57 Ki-84-Ic Frank
58 Ki-100 Tony
59 Ki-102a Randy
61 Ki-60 Ann 63
62 Ki-32 Mary 65
63 Ki-51 Sonia
64 Ki-21 Sally 67
65 Ki-48 Lily 59
66 Ki-49 Helen 67
67 Ki-67 Peggy
68 Ki-46-III Dinah
69 Ki-46-II Dinah 68
70 Ki-15 Babs 69
71 Ki-36 Ida
72 Ki-57-II Topsy
73 Ki-59 Theresa 75
74 MC-21 Sally
75 Ki-54 Hickory

(in reply to Oznoyng)
Post #: 28
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:53:57 PM   
Subchaser


Posts: 1201
Joined: 11/15/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Damien Thorn

quote:

ORIGINAL: Subchaser

There are 67 japanese a/c in WitP, 65 of them are in the list posted by KevH (thanks a lot man!),
One Oscar model and one another a/c are missing. Here is an original bmp file with Japanese a/c profiles.



So it's easy, we just have to look at the pictures and figure out which one is not on the list.


So take it as some kind of a quiz…go figure!

_____________________________


(in reply to Damien Thorn)
Post #: 29
RE: Aircraft data table - 7/1/2004 8:57:37 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline
quote:

So take it as some kind of a quiz…go figure!


All you need to know is the 12th row, 3rd over is the one aircraft that you will learn to hate Japan for.

(in reply to Subchaser)
Post #: 30
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