RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it?

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RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:01:40 PM

2Stepper

Posts: 948
Joined: 1/19/2003
From: North Burbs of Omaha
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

$50 for a piece of crap strategy game (my shelf is full of them) or $70 for a game you will be playing for 10 years.

where's the sticker shock?

Got one word for that comment... AMEN! Matrix took the time... invested the effort and the cash, and came out a winner. No sticker shock here... Hell, I'm considering getting a copy for a friend that declares he'd never play it despite loving UV... He and I both have trouble playing PBEM games, but this bugger is done SO WELL, it'll be tough to resist... Even if it DOES take 2yrs to finish a single game. LOL!

Sticker shock indeed. LOL!

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Post #: 31

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:05:49 PM

Caltone

Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline

Let me chip in my .02. This is by far my favorite theater of WWII from an interest and a gaming stand point. So buying this was a no brainer for me. But to the others:

UV was the first iteration of this "engine" I bought it the day it came out and was playing it nearly everyday until my copy of WitP arrived

For $70 you won't find a better way to spend entertainment dollars. If you like wargames, if you have any interest in this theater, if you have enjoyed Gary's games in the past, if you just want some gaming goodness, then BUY IT!!!

(in reply to Rik81)

Post #: 32

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:11:15 PM

mavraam

Posts: 436
Joined: 5/11/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rik81

$69.99 for a game, and you don't even get a printed manual? Seems a bit excessive to me. I realize that .pdf manuals are the rage -- TO REDUCE COSTS(?). So why is this game still so expensive?

Is it worth it? I think I will need a printed manual(s), which of course my computer printer can do ... so that adds the expense of paper and ink to an already HIGH priced game.

So, to repeat the question: Is it worth it?

Yes.

I will repeat the answer.

Yes.

_____________________________

(in reply to Rik81)

Post #: 33

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:14:10 PM

vonmoltke

Posts: 182
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Bloomfield, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: MButtazoni

$50 for a piece of crap strategy game (my shelf is full of them) or $70 for a game you will be playing for 10 years.

where's the sticker shock?

Absolutely. I've gotten into the habit of waiting for most games to hit the bargain bin because the replay, and sometimes play, value is generally so low. This is not one of those games.

(in reply to MButtazoni)

Post #: 34

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:21:45 PM

Cherper

Posts: 29
Joined: 7/17/2002
From: Carson City, Nevada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Well, sorry to hear that, but this game will not be going to retail stores so there will not be a bargain bin version 6 months from now. Just letting you know so you don't don't sit around waiting for something that is not going to happen.

I know it won't be in stores, but $50 is about the upper limit on my buy price. I haven't paid more than that for any game in a long time (thank god for eBay). I will just have to live without it.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 35

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:26:11 PM

Nomad

Posts: 5905
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: West Yellowstone, Montana
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I will repeat what I said before when this question was asked. I figure that UV has cost me less than US$0.02 per hour so far and with 8 PBEM games ongoing it will be down to US$0.01 per hour. WitP will probably be even less after 3 or 4 years.

I also paid that US$60.00 for the orginal PacWar, and I still have it and the printed manual. I played it off and on for over 10 years.

To answer the question, "where is the sticker shock?" I would have paid much more for WitP if they had asked.

< Message edited by Nomad -- 7/2/2004 11:26:38 AM >

(in reply to vonmoltke)

Post #: 36

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:28:10 PM

Arnir

Posts: 482
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From: Alberta. In Texas.
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I'm sure Matrix knew that the price tag would deter some buyers. It is their decision and the marketplace will decide how good of a decision it was.

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Post #: 37

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:29:45 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

I know it won't be in stores, but $50 is about the upper limit on my buy price. I haven't paid more than that for any game in a long time (thank god for eBay). I will just have to live without it.

Understood, but consider this:

It is really 6 completely separate UV's from a what is in the game. I understand that the initial price might seem high, but you need to really think about it from a years of play instead of the normal games these days that take at best a week to play through. This is not a game, it is a lifetime commitment.

(in reply to Cherper)

Post #: 38

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:33:40 PM

Peever

Posts: 196
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From: Minnesota
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I paid $80 back in 1995 for PTO 2. That was a ton of cash for a 13 year old to spend on a game. My parents thought I was crazy spending ALL my birthday money on one game. I went through at least one campaign every year until 2002 when I bought UV.

I think this game is a very good price. Can't wait to get off work today and get it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 39

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:39:08 PM

Steely Glint

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rik81

$69.99 for a game, and you don't even get a printed manual? Seems a bit excessive to me...So why is this game still so expensive?...Is it worth it?

I got at least 400 hours of play out of the original version of WIP. $69.95/400 hours works out to about 18 cents an hour. Heck, call it a quarter an hour.

Please show me where else I can get long-term edge-of-my-seat mentally-challenging quality entertainment for a quarter an hour.

So, is it worth it? Hell yes!

(in reply to Rik81)

Post #: 40

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:40:41 PM

Steely Glint

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad
I would have paid much more for WitP if they had asked.

Me, too. I have been waiting for this game to get here for a LONG time. $150 would have been fine by me.

(in reply to Nomad)

Post #: 41

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:42:09 PM

Arnir

Posts: 482
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From: Alberta. In Texas.
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad
I would have paid much more for WitP if they had asked.

Me, too. I have been waiting for this game to get here for a LONG time. $150 would have been fine by me.

I have to admit that I can't agree for me. Much more than $70 and I would of at least held off for a time. I didn't get the CD on demand because I winced at another $10, of course why pay for the CD when you can burn your own?

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Post #: 42

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:43:12 PM

vonmoltke

Posts: 182
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From: Bloomfield, NJ
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peever

I paid $80 back in 1995 for PTO 2. That was a ton of cash for a 13 year old to spend on a game. My parents thought I was crazy spending ALL my birthday money on one game. I went through at least one campaign every year until 2002 when I bought UV.

Heh. I paid $70 for PTO and $55 for PTO II.

I then paid $50 for PTO IV...

(in reply to Peever)

Post #: 43

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:44:58 PM

Pandemic

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Joined: 7/2/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rik81

$69.99 for a game, and you don't even get a printed manual? Seems a bit excessive to me. I realize that .pdf manuals are the rage -- TO REDUCE COSTS(?). So why is this game still so expensive?

Is it worth it? I think I will need a printed manual(s), which of course my computer printer can do ... so that adds the expense of paper and ink to an already HIGH priced game.

So, to repeat the question: Is it worth it?

Yes. For a normal video game you are paying �30-40 and get 30-40 hours of play before you have fully completed all it can do. I am paying about �55-60 in total for WITP but will get 200 hours just for 1 full game. Then I can play it again from the other side all the scenarios, online opponents etc. I'd compare that to playing a mmorg only we arnt getting charged per month we continue to play it.

(in reply to Rik81)

Post #: 44

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:47:56 PM

bimbo1555

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Ok, now I love the big detailed wargames, bookgames, etc. as much as anyone. I even bought Panthers in the Shadows just to read the manual as I LOVE in-depth games.

Everyone keeps saying $70 is worth it because you'll be playing for years...which is about how long it will take to finish a single game.

My problem is I love the scope of the game but I don't want to spend 100, 200 hours or more on ONE grand campaign game. I want to play a bunch of them from both sides trying different strategies. If a campaign lasted 20-30 hours that would be fine but triple digit hours..whats the point. We play this game to recreate the Pacific War but not to fight it in the same time frame. But, I will take what the developers have given me and run with it.

$70 is a little steep. It doesn't matter what PacWar cost 10 years ago..that was a different time. Games are cheaper now to buy even thought they are WAY more expensive to make.

Saying that...I will still spend the money as I HAVE to get this game... :-}

James.

(in reply to Steely Glint)

Post #: 45

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:50:55 PM

Steely Glint

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Let me simplify: if you are a wargamer - heck, even if you are a wargamer wannabe - the BUY THE GAME. It's more than worth it.

(in reply to bimbo1555)

Post #: 46

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:52:09 PM

Cherper

Posts: 29
Joined: 7/17/2002
From: Carson City, Nevada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Understood, but consider this:

It is really 6 completely separate UV's from a what is in the game. I understand that the initial price might seem high, but you need to really think about it from a years of play instead of the normal games these days that take at best a week to play through. This is not a game, it is a lifetime commitment.

I am not willing to make a lifetime commitment to a game. The only games that I have that I replay on a regular basis are Civ3, and SP:WAW. UV is a part-time game. I haven't even had it installed for the past few months. I will just stick with the ones I have.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 47

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:55:22 PM

Mike Scholl

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherper

I was looking forward to the game, but at $70 can't convince myself or my wife that it is worth it. If I could buy it a Best Buy or someplace else for $50 I would, but at this price I won't be buying it. I have lots of other games to keep me going.

Just to put things in perspective, I bought my first tank of gas in the Middle 60's for
15 cents a gallon (14.9 at a local "Gas War" - remember those?) As best I recall, AH
was selling wargames for 5.99 or 6.99 then. I just got nailed for almost 3 bucks a gal.
last week..., or almost 20 times as much. At that rate Battle of the Bulge would cost
about $120 a copy now off the shelf. $70-80-even 90 a copy for a GOOD game is not
unreasonable in this day and age. The only real problem is that if the game is all hype
and sucks in reality, you're stuck with it. It's not like a defective appliance you can
take back for a refund. But anybody who's been active on this forum for the last few
months should by now have a pretty good idea if this is a game they want. I know there
are some warts..., but it's still something I want and will get value out of. HECK, I've
already had about a hundred hours of entertainment just participating in the forum. If
I figure being entertained is worth a buck an hour, I've already got my money's worth
and I haven't paid Matrix a cent.

Would I like a printed manual? Sure. But I can live without one. You play the game on
a computer, so it's not a great stretch to read the rules the same way.

(in reply to Cherper)

Post #: 48

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:56:45 PM

Arnir

Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Understood, but consider this:

It is really 6 completely separate UV's from a what is in the game. I understand that the initial price might seem high, but you need to really think about it from a years of play instead of the normal games these days that take at best a week to play through. This is not a game, it is a lifetime commitment.

I am not willing to make a lifetime commitment to a game. The only games that I have that I replay on a regular basis are Civ3, and SP:WAW. UV is a part-time game. I haven't even had it installed for the past few months. I will just stick with the ones I have.

I wouldn't worry too much. WitP will still be here if you change your mind. I saw that SPWAW GE has the same pricetag as WitP. How much would those have been if purchased seperately? I haven't followed SP:WAW but I hear it has a loyal following.

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Post #: 49

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 8:59:30 PM

Mr.Frag

Posts: 13410
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From: Purgatory
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cherper

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag
Understood, but consider this:

It is really 6 completely separate UV's from a what is in the game. I understand that the initial price might seem high, but you need to really think about it from a years of play instead of the normal games these days that take at best a week to play through. This is not a game, it is a lifetime commitment.

I am not willing to make a lifetime commitment to a game. The only games that I have that I replay on a regular basis are Civ3, and SP:WAW. UV is a part-time game. I haven't even had it installed for the past few months. I will just stick with the ones I have.

I understand completely. If WitP is not for you, you might like to take a look at the upcoming World at War when it is ready. Not everyone has the time available for something this epic.

(in reply to Cherper)

Post #: 50

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 9:04:34 PM

Mark VII

Posts: 1838
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From: Brentwood,TN
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You guys have got to be kidding!

This game is worth every penny I paid plus more.

I am happy it was only in the $70 range but I would of paid more, even double.

With Matrix's track record on UV of fixing problems that pop up and all of the other support the value of WitP is hard to estimate.

This is the game I have been waiting for since I preordered SPI's WitP back in the 70's. I can't imagine it getting better than this. How many hours will we(I) spend on this game? Over the next 5+ years it will be in the thousands, compute that value!

Yea, I'm sure there will some glitches that pop up but I am sure Matrix will fix anything pretty quick. Thankyou Matrix and all of the people who spent the last several years perfecting this masterpiece.

(in reply to vonmoltke)

Post #: 51

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 9:09:50 PM

piperone

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Joined: 10/22/2003
Status: offline

Hey Rik81,

Think about it this way: if you feel like having a worthwhile distraction from Trainz (I believe you are the same Rik81 from virtualtrainz.com) then this is a game to do it. As much as you enjoy that simulation, you will enjoy WitP. I've just started and for the scope of this game, I'm ramping up the learning curve quite nicely.

Really, it's worth every penny. My problem is I have TWO many distractions from Trainz. Matrix would release these titles at the same time...

piperone

(in reply to Mark VII)

Post #: 52

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 10:11:20 PM

CrackSabbath

Posts: 111
Joined: 6/7/2004
From: Aridzona
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I posted in another thread that I too was shocked by the price, and decided to pass.

However, reconsideration on the potential longevity/replay value of this game has caused me to reconsider. I'll let the dust settle, and decide in a month or two wether to buy. In the meantime, AA:HTTR & the Combat Mission series will keep me plenty busy.

(in reply to Mr.Frag)

Post #: 53

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 10:20:53 PM

Alexander Seil

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Joined: 4/22/2003
Status: offline

I wonder if Matrix could potentially do something along the lines of what HPS Simulations does on a regular basis. For the first two or so months after the release, their games are priced lower (10 bucks off). Seems to me like a nice way to take into account the larger volume of sales early on, while still keeping in mind that this is a niche market and reducing prices over time isn't worth it.

(in reply to CrackSabbath)

Post #: 54

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 10:39:02 PM

mjk428

Posts: 1944
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From: Western USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rik81

So, to repeat the question: Is it worth it?

To me it is.

Would I have liked to have a printed manual? Absolutely

Would I have preferred to have pre-ordered and gotten it shipped to me in a real game box? Again, absolutely

That still doesn't change the fact that I feel I more than got my money's worth (even without sound at the moment).

This game is a much better value than UV since it virtually comes with UV along with everything else. The last games to give me this much naval wargame bang for my buck were Harpoon and Carriers At War.

Also, considering that Matrix gives away Steel Panthers, Pacific War & War in Russia, think of it as 4 games for $70. :)

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Post #: 55

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 11:26:01 PM

Titanwarrior89

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Well put! Mr. Frag, i agree 100%

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Post #: 56

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 11:52:30 PM

Bodhi

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From: Japan
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This game IS VERY, VERY expensive. Most people freely admit that. However the expense is the TIME you'll need to find to learn/play. If you have the time and are willing to invest it, you'll find the sticker price to be much less of a shock. If you compare how many hours (maybe hours won't work too well here, let's try days) of enjoyment you've got from the last $70 worth of games you bought, to the days (weeks/months/years?) enjoyment you should get from WITP, you'll probably end up finding it a bargain. Of course I've only had WITP for 14hours (and UV for 14months), but that's long enough for me to think that what I've said above is about right.

If you have the time and even the slightest interest in wargames, and $70 won't break the bank, buy it. You won't regret it.

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Post #: 57

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/2/2004 11:59:40 PM

mavraam

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When I think of all the POS $50 games I've bought in my life. Well, I'd make a list but would probably insult someone here (NOTE: I didn't mean to imply Matrix by that). I'd rather pay $70 for a quality game like this than $50 for something I'll play a couple times and then quit.

But that's just me!

< Message edited by mavraam -- 7/2/2004 10:00:15 PM >

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Post #: 58

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/3/2004 12:06:39 AM

kaleun

Posts: 5145
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Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

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Post #: 59

RE: Sticker Shock - Is it worth it? - 7/3/2004 12:13:44 AM

marc420

Posts: 224
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From: Terrapin Station
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Well, the $70 price tag definitely has me hesitating. Its just too much for an impulse buy.

Add to that the history of GG's UI's. Not sure I've ever seen one that didn't make me think of a dentist drill. One of the main things I remember about UV was constantly having to move the mouse over many little buttons. Just about needed a magnifying glass and a mouse with extra precision to hit the things. That seemed to be combined with a UI designed where the goal seemed to be to make you press as many of those little buttons as possible.

Add to that my impression of UV which was that it could have been marketed as the McHale's Navy Quatermaster game. You had great detail over moving lots of supplies around. But you just sat and prayed that your fleets did something sensible after you turned them over to a UI that appeared to be designed to simulate McHale's Navy. Seems like I was constantly watching replays where my TF's did something that just left me saying "that captain did WHAT??".

Then I'd come out here, and find people saying well if you push this little button on Thursdays while holding your left leg out from your chair at a right angle, then it won't do that, but only if you pressed this other little button on Tuesday with your right leg held at left angles to your chair.

This was usually followed by posts claiming that GG was a great game designer because since you had no idea what your fleets were going to do, this simulated the fog of war.

Oh yeah, just remembered staring at the map watching bunches of messages flashing up, which was your only intel on what the enemy was doing in UV. Any game where I need to keep a pad of paper around to make notes constantly has failed a major design test for me. If I'm a theater commander, why the heck can't I just ask my Intel staff what's happened in the last day?

Oh yeah, can WITP be played with anything more than 1 day turns? If I remember right, the McHale's Navy AI pretty much made that worthless in UV. If you went any more than a day without checking up on every fleet in your command, then it was pretty likely they'd start doing something worthless if not suicidal.

The bit I've already seen on the website that says you must press "CANCEL LOADING" in order for the ships to load makes me suspect the WITP UI isn't much better than the UV UI.

Because of the above, UV was one of those games that gets installed then uninstalled a few times. I liked the topic so I kept coming back to it. But the frustrations of the design of the game meant I'd get bored after a week or so and eventually it would get uninstalled. For me it would be an iffy question as to whether I feel like I got my $50 worth for that one. So the explanations that I should happily pay $70+ for WITP on the theory that I'll be playing non-stop for the next decade kinda conflict with my UV reality. Seems at least possible that I'll pay $70 for a game that I'll be fed up with in a month and uninstalling from my hard drive to get space.

Anyways, given my history with GG games (I still think anyone who bought Battle of Britain should not only get a refund but also a pain and suffering award!) , this games just to expensive to take a chance on. The sad thing is that I LOVE big massive strategy games.

I may end up owning this game, just because I do love the idea of the topic. But for now, $70 is just too much to risk.

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