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First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:34:34 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???
Post #: 1
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:36:10 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		pyaeen,

Do you have the historical first turn and surprise options on (and also no variable first turn deployment, which give a chance at an alert posture)? I just ran through Turn 1 in the grand campaign last night and lost four BBs to bombs and torpedos before Turn 1 even ended, two more are in the 70+ sys damage 50+ float damage range.

Regards,

- Erik

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 7/7/2004 11:36:53 AM >

_____________________________

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CEO, Matrix Games LLC



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(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 2
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:39:21 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Aparently thies is a lot of variance in the outcome of the Pearl Harbor atack, in the Game I am playing now with Historical Turn one set, I had one BB sink, her magizine was hit and she literaly Blew up aparently, all the other ships will live to fight another day and No torpedoes were launced at all.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 3
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:39:26 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		Thanks Erik your fast respond.
I have set historical first turn and surprise options on.... Recently two times for see the actual results I play Jap and US at the same time, its really nothing sunk.

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 4
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:41:04 PM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		Atack on Pearl Harbor Historic First turn:

.............................

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 11 damaged
D3A Val: 21 destroyed, 51 damaged
B5N Kate: 15 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 9 destroyed, 6 damaged
P-26A: 12 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 40 destroyed, 22 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 54 destroyed, 40 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 15 destroyed, 10 damaged
PBY Catalina: 39 destroyed, 47 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 25 destroyed, 31 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 5 destroyed, 19 damaged
A-20B Boston: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 8, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 5, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 13, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 16, on fire, heavy damage
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Cassin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
DD Worden, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Dale, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DM Ramsay, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AR Medusa, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
123 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 46
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 182

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
15 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
25 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet





..................

Aparently from what I gather the computer makes a die role to determine if any of the torp capable planes will cary a torp, and in this case non made the cut so to speak.

< Message edited by Brady -- 7/7/2004 4:43:46 PM >

(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 5
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:49:01 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		my another try:

ay Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 5
P-36A Mohawk x 3
P-40B Tomahawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
D3A Val: 17 destroyed, 57 damaged
B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 25 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 11 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-26A: 14 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 43 destroyed, 24 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 63 destroyed, 44 damaged
PBY Catalina: 47 destroyed, 41 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 10 destroyed, 14 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 20 destroyed, 17 damaged
A-20B Boston: 10 destroyed, 5 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 5 destroyed, 11 damaged

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 10, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 11, on fire
DD Alwin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 6, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 9, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1
AD Dobbin, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DM Tracy, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AP U.S. Grant, Bomb hits 1
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
121 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Airbase hits 59
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 158

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 6
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:51:26 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pyaeen

Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???


Sounds good. My first attempt (as the US) I had 3 BB's SUNK and the rest beat up
along with a number of other craft and 75% of Oahu's airpower. Wanna swap?

(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 7
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 6:58:07 PM   
Hammer2001

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline 		As Japanesse player Historical first turn and surprise. 4x BBs and 1x dDD. 259 allied air loses.
As Allied, same options, 2x BBs (Oklahoma and West Virginia) and 1x DM. 300+ aircraft destroyed all theatre

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 8
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:00:19 PM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady

Aparently thies is a lot of variance in the outcome of the Pearl Harbor atack, in the Game I am playing now with Historical Turn one set, I had one BB sink, her magizine was hit and she literaly Blew up aparently, all the other ships will live to fight another day and No torpedoes were launced at all.


Well, only Arizona was dealt the death blow at PH. Even Oklahoma was raised but it was decided that there was no point in refitting her given her age and class. I remember seeing a picture of the refloated Oklahoma berthed beside Wisconsin at PH...looked like a toy from another age.

_____________________________





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(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 9
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:02:45 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		wanna see another result

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 3
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 3
P-40B Tomahawk x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 19 destroyed, 7 damaged
D3A Val: 14 destroyed, 50 damaged
B5N Kate: 23 destroyed, 36 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 11 destroyed, 4 damaged
P-26A: 15 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 41 destroyed, 17 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 63 destroyed, 54 damaged
PBY Catalina: 49 destroyed, 42 damaged
A-20B Boston: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 8 destroyed, 17 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 25 destroyed, 11 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 6 destroyed, 15 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 12, Torpedo hits 3, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 7, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
DD Case, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Bomb hits 1
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
102 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 50
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 169

----------------------------
still no captial ship sunk. BB West Virginia 94 sys 64 flt; BB Tennessee 68 sys 21 flt. all others 2x-4x sys damage. But torp planes here this time lol.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 10
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:09:47 PM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		Loaded the big campaign the first time yesterday, to play a bit with Pearl Harbour, always w/o historical first turn, but surprise attack and no variation and no FoW to get precise results for analysis.

Didn't change anything else but the TF1 airwings, mostly let fighters (two squads as escord & LCAP) and dive bombers do strafe attacks (<100ft) against airfields and port, while setting the torp. bombers at 1000ft in the hope that they use some fishes.

The first time it did it this way, they must have been not very surprised - ~30% of the planes went down, and ~60% got damaged, all by AA... However, two BBs and one or two smaller ships went down, with significant damage to several other BBs (unfortunatly, I left Allies to AI, so not so precise results this turn )

In several other attempts with pretty much the same settings to the airwings, I mostly scored 2 BBs and one or two small ships, at least once with additionally 5 BBs with >50% sys. damage (1>90, 1>80), but never again such losses to my airwings (once even with only 2 bombers down )

And finally, I decided to try another attack the second day. In the night, evil AI Allies launched a PT attack against TF1, severly hitting a CV and a CL

(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 11
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:17:35 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		Another try, it seems may be my computer want me to play US side first?

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 19 destroyed, 3 damaged
D3A Val: 27 destroyed, 55 damaged
B5N Kate: 21 destroyed, 33 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 11 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-26A: 15 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 25 destroyed, 17 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 49 destroyed, 40 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 12 destroyed, 13 damaged
PBY Catalina: 37 destroyed, 45 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 8 destroyed, 17 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 19 destroyed, 17 damaged
A-20B Boston: 5 destroyed, 13 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 9
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 10, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
AP St. Mihel, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Castor, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Jarvis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Ralph Talbot, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Torpedo hits 1


Allied ground losses:
135 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 53
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 159

(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 12
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:24:55 PM   
BoerWar


Posts: 506
Joined: 6/12/2004
From: Arlington, VA
Status: offline 		Pyaeen,

Do you have fog of war turned on? In my game I know I sank the Enterprise because I drove through the oil slick, but the computer hasn't reported it yet. You may have done better than you think.

(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 13
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:25:59 PM   
ZOOMIE1980

 

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: pyaeen

Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???


Sounds good. My first attempt (as the US) I had 3 BB's SUNK and the rest beat up
along with a number of other craft and 75% of Oahu's airpower. Wanna swap?


I've played turn one six times now with Historical and Surprise turned on. At one extreme I had only 6 BB's even hit, not critically. At the other I had 4 BB's sunk and the other four seriously damaged and will likely lose 3 of them if I attempt to move them anywhere and that strike had quite a few torpedo hits in it.

Bottom line, HIGHLY variable outcomes...

Same with Wake. 4 out of 6 times Wake holds. They took it twice.

< Message edited by ZOOMIE1980 -- 7/7/2004 5:27:59 PM >

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 14
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:36:07 PM   
pyaeen

 

Posts: 20
Joined: 7/5/2004
Status: offline 		Hi BoerWar,

After try many time but results like I post here. For sure the result, recently few times I play head to head myself and see exactly what damage to US fleet in Pearl Harbour. It just as ZOOMIE1980 says, HIGHLY variable outcomes...

But I can sure today it is not lucky day for me to play as Japan

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 15
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 7:36:15 PM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Just wait til you get an Operation Home Plate result and 2CV and 2BB end up sitting in the silt.

(in reply to ZOOMIE1980)
Post #: 16
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 8:11:02 PM   
ltfightr


Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
Status: offline 		I have run the Pearl strikes about 12 times with the historical 1st turn on and dec 7thh suprise on assuming that if every thing is modeled correctly we should get historical like results.

So far for the most part I have seen historical results on most of them 1-3bbs sunk and 1-2 light vessels several damaged ships. IIRC only 2 Pearl Battleships were not returned to service the Arizona and the Oklahoma.

The Combat model appears to me to be correct luck plays a part in war and the results I have seen appear to be realistic yet random enough for replayability. If not some random ability the game might as well start Dec 8th with historical losses.

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(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 17
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 8:26:18 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		There is definately some variance in 1st turn attacks at PH. I usually see 1 BB sunk, and a lot of "that had to hurt", but they will all recover.

Really, there were very FEW historical (complete) losses at PH. Arizona, was the only BB that was never raised, and Oklahoma was written off as a total loss and sent for scrap. All the rest did come back (you can't count Utah, she was a target ship). And the only other ship written off was Oglala.

I'll throw this in regards to PH however...

I think the repair rate (for the facilities) is wasy too fast. It only took 3 days to repair about 60-60-60 damage to the facilities. I'm still reading the historical AARs (available on-line, how cool is that?!), but it seems that 3 days is pretty ambitious to put the place back in order.

My 2 pfennigs.
-F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 7/7/2004 1:29:06 PM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to The Gnome)
Post #: 18
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 8:46:55 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

pyaeen,

Do you have the historical first turn and surprise options on (and also no variable first turn deployment, which give a chance at an alert posture)? I just ran through Turn 1 in the grand campaign last night and lost four BBs to bombs and torpedos before Turn 1 even ended, two more are in the 70+ sys damage 50+ float damage range.

Regards,

- Erik


That's amazing Eric, especially considering how I've out of approx. 13 attempts have had a maximum of one BB going down on 3 occasions (just the first turn though).

Oh, I forgot to add that every run attempt were with historical 1st turn with surprise (I'm Japanese). One thing those who "don't" see BB losses may be missing, is that I have never seen a ship sunk during the combat phase or it's report. The sinking doesn't occur until several phases in the display window have gone through (you have to watch that window to catch them). Of course, if you go into inteeligence that will show you the losses that window did. I think a lot of us, at least early on, are expecting the target will sink as we're watching the combat, like PW did, but it don't appear to work that way.

< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 7/8/2004 12:56:54 PM >

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 19
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 9:00:29 PM   
ltfightr


Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
Status: offline 		In the turns I ran I have seen 1 with 4 sunk bb's and 1 with 0 the rest fall in between.

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Post #: 20
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 10:16:08 PM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline 		Now I played the thing again, pretty much with the settings above (2x Fighter escort, other Fighters+2x Dive Bomber strafe airports, rest of the DB and all Torpedo Bombers strafe port.

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 10 destroyed, 9 damaged
D3A Val: 30 destroyed, 59 damaged
B5N Kate: 46 destroyed, 66 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 8 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-26A: 12 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 30 destroyed, 23 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 59 destroyed, 51 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 17 destroyed, 20 damaged
PBY Catalina: 44 destroyed, 44 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 7 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 9 destroyed, 10 damaged
A-20B Boston: 8 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 15, on fire, heavy damage
ML Ogalala, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1
AK Mercury, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT PT-42, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tern, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AVD Thornton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Downes, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Laida, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AD Whitney, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire


ThreeBBs missing (Arizona, Pennsylvania, Tennessee) => sunk




Attachment (1)

(in reply to ltfightr)
Post #: 21
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 10:27:35 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoCares

Now I played the thing again, pretty much with the settings above (2x Fighter escort, other Fighters+2x Dive Bomber strafe airports, rest of the DB and all Torpedo Bombers strafe port.

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 10 destroyed, 9 damaged
D3A Val: 30 destroyed, 59 damaged
B5N Kate: 46 destroyed, 66 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 8 destroyed, 5 damaged
P-26A: 12 destroyed, 2 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 30 destroyed, 23 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 59 destroyed, 51 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 17 destroyed, 20 damaged
PBY Catalina: 44 destroyed, 44 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 7 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 9 destroyed, 10 damaged
A-20B Boston: 8 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 11, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 10, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 17, on fire, heavy damage
BB California, Bomb hits 15, on fire, heavy damage
ML Ogalala, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1
AK Mercury, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PT PT-42, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Tern, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AVD Thornton, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Downes, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Laida, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AD Whitney, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Honolulu, Bomb hits 1, on fire


ThreeBBs missing (Arizona, Pennsylvania, Tennessee) => sunk





How did you do that? Your screenprint I mean. I tried an attachment yesterday as a jpg file from a Tojo screenshot and the blasted thing claimed the file was too large (it did have a picture of the Tojo on it if that matters [it wasn't all text in other words]).

(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 22
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 11:08:27 PM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ltfightr

I have run the Pearl strikes about 12 times with the historical 1st turn on and dec 7thh suprise on assuming that if every thing is modeled correctly we should get historical like results.




Sorry to put some water in your wine (a French expression), but the benchmark as to the validity of the model is NOT the historical outcome. The historical outcome itself could be an "extreme" result....

_____________________________

So much WitP and so little time to play.... :-(


(in reply to ltfightr)
Post #: 23
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 11:25:50 PM   
ltfightr


Posts: 537
Joined: 6/16/2002
From: Little Rock AR
Status: offline 		That may be true but it is what actually happened and therefore is a standard by which we can measure. We can argue what if's but the acctual damage can be assesed.

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(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 24
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/7/2004 11:50:30 PM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Charles_22

quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoCares

Now I played the thing again, pretty much with the settings above (2x Fighter escort, other Fighters+2x Dive Bomber strafe airports, rest of the DB and all Torpedo Bombers strafe port.

...
removed image


How did you do that? Your screenprint I mean. I tried an attachment yesterday as a jpg file from a Tojo screenshot and the blasted thing claimed the file was too large (it did have a picture of the Tojo on it if that matters [it wasn't all text in other words]).


There is a limit to images of 200kB, so you should reduce your image size or quality to upload it here.


and ontopic: running the turn with the same settings as above, except suprise disabled turned out with just a CL sunk, but still some BBs severly damaged (2x90, 4 more >60)

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 25
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/8/2004 3:50:21 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Ok, I just had to post this one. Owwww...

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 5
P-40B Tomahawk x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 11 destroyed, 6 damaged
D3A Val: 25 destroyed, 32 damaged
B5N Kate: 21 destroyed, 39 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 10 destroyed, 4 damaged
P-26A: 15 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 48 destroyed, 17 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 71 destroyed, 41 damaged
PBY Catalina: 47 destroyed, 42 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 4 destroyed, 7 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 22 destroyed, 23 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 11 destroyed, 13 damaged
A-20B Boston: 12 destroyed, 10 damaged

Allied Ships
BB California, Bomb hits 13, on fire
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 9, on fire
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 8, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AV Wright, Bomb hits 1, on fire
PG Sacramento, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Litchfield, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AD Whitney, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 1
DD Helm, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DM Montgomery, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
110 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

Airbase hits 53
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 178

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
14 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
14 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
18 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
15 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
24 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 26
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/8/2004 7:28:05 AM   
Arnir


Posts: 482
Joined: 10/12/2002
From: Alberta. In Texas.
Status: offline 		Here's mine.

Day Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 112,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 76
D3A Val x 126
B5N Kate x 143

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 2
P-26A x 8
P-36A Mohawk x 2
P-40B Tomahawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 22 destroyed, 5 damaged
D3A Val: 14 destroyed, 45 damaged
B5N Kate: 10 destroyed, 41 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 7 destroyed, 6 damaged
P-26A: 17 destroyed
P-36A Mohawk: 25 destroyed, 11 damaged
P-40B Tomahawk: 71 destroyed, 31 damaged
PBY Catalina: 31 destroyed, 69 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 7 destroyed, 13 damaged
A-20B Boston: 4 destroyed, 10 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 7 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 20 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 11, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA San Francisco, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 10, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CA Minneapolis, Bomb hits 1, on fire
CL Raleigh, Bomb hits 1
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 2, heavy damage
AD Whitney, Bomb hits 1, on fire
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 3, on fire
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB California, Bomb hits 4
DD Ward, Bomb hits 1
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CL St. Louis, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dewey, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Phoenix, Torpedo hits 1
DD Hull, Bomb hits 1


Allied ground losses:
122 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 54
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 169

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
14 x A6M2 Zero attacking at 100 feet
23 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
25 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
15 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
17 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
17 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
24 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
27 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet
25 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
26 x B5N Kate bombing at 9000 feet




The Maryland didn't make it.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Arnir -- 7/7/2004 11:31:08 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 27
RE: First turn pearl harbour surprise attack - 7/8/2004 8:52:03 AM   
Faker than Hollywood

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 7/8/2004
Status: offline 		Are any IJN Japs trying to invade Hawaii and sieze Pearl ? Is anyone trying to sieze the oil stocks and machine shops ? Is anyone Launching additional strikes to destroy the oil stocks and machine shops ?
If Pearl's oil and machine shops are left intact or perhaps if Hawaii is left in American hands how can the long range PTO outcome result in IJN victory ? Is anyone considering a Rommel DAK-type supply-siezure of Pearl's USN inventories ? Can you flush the USN aircraft carriers out forcing them to defend Pearl by sending in surface bombard units to conduct main gun Hawaiian urban renewal followed-up by a SNLF or other sea borne invasion ? Can the IJN fleet carriers refuel at Pearl if you sieze the Harbor ? Thanks.

Bansai/Victory at Sea ! http://victoryatseaonline.com/


There are many who say that the Japanese would have been wise to have attacked with a third strike to destroy the oil storage facilities, machine shops and dry docks at Pearl Harbor. Destruction of these facilities would have greatly increased the U.S. Navy's difficulties as the nearest Fleet facilities would have been several thousand miles east of Hawaii on the West Coast of the States. Admiral Nagumo declined to order a third strike for several reasons.

http://www.campusprogram.com/reference/en/wikipedia/a/at/attack_on_pearl_harbor.html

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=353262


San Francisco, US-- Between July 1940 and April of 1941, during a petroleum embargo, 9,200,000 barrels of gasoline went to Japan. Navy intelligence identified and tracked eight Japanese tankers during that period. Most loaded up at the docks at Port Costa and delivered the fuel directly to Tokuyama, the main storage facility for the Japanese fleet.

http://www.cocohistory.com/essays-pearlharbor.html

(in reply to pyaeen)
Post #: 28
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