Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

OK, I've added a bid field!

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> OK, I've added a bid field! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 2:00:08 AM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
Hey guys:

I've added a bid field so that you can enter the winning bid for each major power which will then be added to that major power's VP requirement at the beginning of the game! You will still have to wrok out the bidding process before the game BUT this should allow you to implement the effects of the bidding in the game (Wheeeew! Wiping sweat off my brow as I'm bandaging my raw fingers from kbd fatigue).




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games


Post #: 1
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 2:24:34 AM   
sol_invictus


Posts: 1961
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
Sweet!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 2
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 12:12:57 PM   
ffak


Posts: 41
Joined: 10/8/2003
From: Paris, France
Status: offline
I never play the boardgame and I read all topics about the bids but I d'ont understand what is that for? What do you bidding? thanks..

_____________________________

A boulet et à mitraille!
http://campaigns-france.org

(in reply to sol_invictus)
Post #: 3
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 12:15:15 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
You are the greatest Marshall!!!
Cheers for MG!!

Now lets wait for the game and all the scenarios.

Regards.

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 4
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 1:40:02 PM   
ktotwf

 

Posts: 182
Joined: 6/25/2004
Status: offline
ffak, I think that bids go as follows: You bid on the country you want, and whoever bids the most gets the country. But the amount that you bid gets added on to the requirements for the amount of points you have to get to win the game.

(in reply to ffak)
Post #: 5
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 1:59:41 PM   
Titan

 

Posts: 482
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: new Zealand
Status: offline
The bid screen has just sold the game to me :),its a game all of its own,its has...excitment,anticipation,strategy,FOG,Eye candy,and of course you can win it

(in reply to ktotwf)
Post #: 6
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 2:59:42 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
You are right Ktotwf!!!

The problem is that the Victory Points (VP=points you get every 3 turns of game, each turn is a month) are a base to add the bidding, so playing without the bidding will "break" the original game.

But MG had fixed it, I am glad of it.

Now, this brings me another question...
There will be a screen where you can see all the countries and the VP and the total amount need it, % over the total, etc. or something similar Marshall??

And, as I see a combo box in the Scenarios...there will be more with the original game?!?!

Thanks and keep up the good work!!!

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to ktotwf)
Post #: 7
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 6:15:59 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
This is a great addition, and probably one of the more significant ones since the base of the game was coded.

I think I have the same question as ardilla: Is there going to be a screen to check the progress of who is currently winning?

example:

France is in 1st place with 67% of his total VP

or

Turkey is in 1st place with 70% of his total VP

so the current rankings being done by percentage of total VP at the end of that economic phase

(in reply to ardilla)
Post #: 8
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 7:12:32 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline
ffak, you may want to keep in mind that in other games the bidding is reversed. People may fight to bid lowest. E.G. In Axis & Allies there is a bidding war and who ever goes lowest gets to play axis and uses the bid as IPCs to buy extra units. Though, some newbies are so desperate to play axis they will often go to a negative bid!

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 9
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 7:19:34 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
Yes, it could be, but since the bidding goes "off the game" with the players, you can kick that "game broker" before start the game.

No?

Now, lets see if anyone has time to work out a web page to resolve the bidding until MG gets out version 1.01

Regards!!! I am so excited, I want to move my troops and my fleets!!!

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 10
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/19/2004 11:58:13 PM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
You bet there is a VP status screen...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to ardilla)
Post #: 11
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 12:42:05 AM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
NNNNNIIIIIICCCCCEEEEEE! :) Sweet deal. Thanks.

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 12
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 1:48:13 AM   
eg0master

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline


_____________________________

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not.

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 13
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 5:56:08 AM   
Forward_March

 

Posts: 201
Joined: 6/26/2003
Status: offline
Great Addition Marschall! I fear all people will bid all of their available VP's to get what they want....otherwise they'll get Spain! When we played while stationed in Okinawa was drawing countries from a hat...finding anybody who wanted to be Turkey or Spain was like finding somebody volunteering for unrequired dental surgery.

(in reply to eg0master)
Post #: 14
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 1:33:34 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
I respect you Marshall!!!

U r the greatest!! and MG of course

Lookssss awesome!!

BTW, the towers are garrisons, right? What about a neutral flag in the bottom for those poor little minors? One for all or maybe the real flags could be REALLY COOL.

But, anyway, I can wait till version 1.01

I already recived my laptop, so I hope I can play this summer where ever I will be!!!!!

P.S. Marshall, if you were a woman I will invite you for a dinner

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 15
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 1:45:59 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
I dont know why your "playermates" dont like turky or spain, I find both countries nice to play since you dont have too much headache in making your economic phase, conquering minors and be worried about Nappy.

And are countries that if you make a good diplomatic game you can be at the top in VP.

Of course, they are almost minors, both of them depending from FR or GR, but still nice to have such allies.

They are probably good countries to have fun and play your first EiA game!!

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Forward_March)
Post #: 16
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 4:31:40 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 3170
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Is the game being playbalanced such that any country has a more or less equal chance to win the game, or is historical accuracy the goal and bidding a means to compensate for differences? I guess the question boils down to whether bidding is optional for personal preferences in an otherwise equal game or if it's a necessity for play balance.

Either way, the bidding process will help normalize the game among players who know the game and know each other's strengths and weaknesses. That's good. But for entering into new games with unknown players, it would be useful to know how the game is balanced and how to bid accordingly. Maybe provide some helpful suggestions in the game's Designer's Notes or strategy tips?

(in reply to ardilla)
Post #: 17
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 5:42:22 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
The bidding is necesary for a play balance, IMO and what I deduce from the orginal game rules.

Since, the bidding is not included in the released version of MG, you can tell, from the bidding results if players bidded reasonably or not.

so if you find that a playerd bidded 100 VP for playing FR, you should quit this player from the game and look for another one.

Since the rules tells you that you HAVE TO BID an ammount for each country and that you can not bid the same ammount for different countries, this comes to a basic bidding of 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2 & 1 for all countries, with whatever are you preferences.

So, from 7 to 1 will be added, at least, to each country basic VP before starting.
That is why we were "complaining" for it, because, it is one of the rules for the Grand Campaing game (1805-1815).

But of course this goes higher for FR and GB.
So you can find a bidding of 20-30 VP for one of the above ones.

Another problem is the ability of GB to win the game if nobody reaches the total VP needed. This can make a player bid very high for GB and then, with the other ability of GR of substract own VP from another country at war with, will make possible to GB winning even with a bid of 300 VP!!!!

But thats is another tale....

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 18
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/20/2004 6:49:16 PM   
NeverMan

 

Posts: 1722
Joined: 2/24/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

Is the game being playbalanced such that any country has a more or less equal chance to win the game, or is historical accuracy the goal and bidding a means to compensate for differences? I guess the question boils down to whether bidding is optional for personal preferences in an otherwise equal game or if it's a necessity for play balance.

Either way, the bidding process will help normalize the game among players who know the game and know each other's strengths and weaknesses. That's good. But for entering into new games with unknown players, it would be useful to know how the game is balanced and how to bid accordingly. Maybe provide some helpful suggestions in the game's Designer's Notes or strategy tips?


Even before bidding, the game is setup to give every country a chance of winning. Like, before bidding, France VP total to win is 400, while everyone else's is lower depending on how powerful the country is. I believe, right off hand, that Turkey has the lowest VP total to win, so they only need to maintain around a 6-8 VP per eco phase, where France needs around a 10-12 per eco phase to win.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 19
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 1:36:15 AM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline
quote:

so if you find that a playerd bidded 100 VP for playing FR, you should quit this player from the game and look for another one.


I am not so sure. If someone wants to bid the whole bank for a country, then LET HIM! Even if he kicks everyone's ass, if he can't pay off his debts so to speak, then he simply doensn't win. Next guy in line wins. Sounds fair to me. He will learn soon enough.

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to NeverMan)
Post #: 20
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 1:37:35 AM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline
I have been watching this forum for nearly three years (I think) and cant believe how excited I am that EIA is soooooo close. My poor over used, curling at the edges, cardboard counters may soon be able to take a lengthy and well earned period of R&R. But they will still have to do battle every so often for old times sake, that and the fact that drinking beer with old friends over the games table is slightly more socially acceptable in the wifes eyes than drinking alone in front of the screen!!

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 21
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 2:02:38 AM   
Marshall Ellis


Posts: 5630
Joined: 10/2/2001
From: Dallas
Status: offline
Hello all:

I like the bidding because, I find that everybody has their favorite nation to play (Can anyone guess Pippin's ? :-) ) and so this creates an eagerness to bid high for their favorite nation BUT you don't want to go so high that it impacts your chances of winning. You bid a hundred VP for France and you'll probably get to play France BUT you probably won't win even if you win all of your wars. Bid too low and you'll end up with Spain, Turkey or Austria (Which I tend to like playing anyway) which many would say puts you at a disadvantage!

Quite a pickle that bidding can create!

Thank you

_____________________________

Thank you

Marshall Ellis
Outflank Strategy War Games



(in reply to ian77)
Post #: 22
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 2:45:15 AM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hello all:

I like the bidding because, I find that everybody has their favorite nation to play (Can anyone guess Pippin's ? :-) ) and so this creates an eagerness to bid high for their favorite nation BUT you don't want to go so high that it impacts your chances of winning. You bid a hundred VP for France and you'll probably get to play France BUT you probably won't win even if you win all of your wars. Bid too low and you'll end up with Spain, Turkey or Austria (Which I tend to like playing anyway) which many would say puts you at a disadvantage!

Quite a pickle that bidding can create!

Thank you



You are spot on Marshall, bidding is a game in its self, especially if you play with regular opponents. You try to second and third guess each other, bluff that you are going all out to play as Bobs favourite GB, and try and sneak France for yourself with a low bid. We have tried many different systems, one of the craziest being a straight forward blind draw for powers, followed by negotiation and the sale/transfer of powers between players, Spain and Russia were swapped with the first 75 Russian VPs being ceeded to Spain. This meant that it would be that much easier for Spain to win so France and GB both had to constantly score points off Spain! Meanwhile the Russian had to play a very aggressive game himself in order to score, but was still not considered a major threat, it was a cardboard bloodbath with Prussia and Austria the big losers, again! God I love this game!

Ian

(in reply to Marshall Ellis)
Post #: 23
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 2:51:21 AM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Pippin

quote:

so if you find that a playerd bidded 100 VP for playing FR, you should quit this player from the game and look for another one.


I am not so sure. If someone wants to bid the whole bank for a country, then LET HIM! Even if he kicks everyone's ass, if he can't pay off his debts so to speak, then he simply doensn't win. Next guy in line wins. Sounds fair to me. He will learn soon enough.


In our face to face the guy in last place, with the lowest % VPs, has to pay for the all the beer..... and 7 of us can get through a lot in 15 hours!!

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 24
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 2:45:09 PM   
eg0master

 

Posts: 161
Joined: 3/20/2002
From: Stockholm, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ian77

[...]

In our face to face the guy in last place, with the lowest % VPs, has to pay for the all the beer..... and 7 of us can get through a lot in 15 hours!!


HAHAHAHA, I think we will be using that to eliminate any insane bids...

_____________________________

24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I think not.

(in reply to ian77)
Post #: 25
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 4:52:00 PM   
ardilla


Posts: 399
Joined: 2/25/2004
From: Castellon, Spain
Status: offline
The point, under my player opinion, about letting bid 100 or more points for a country is that I think the game will be unbalanced.

Why?

Because, if we have a player that bids 100 for FR this is 500/44 turns this means an average of almost 12 VP per economic turn, since this is almost imposible the FR player will know that HE WILL NOT WIN, so I think he will just "break" the game and do whatever he feels like, and having a player who can not win is something STUPID.
Because at the end this is a game, and if you play is because you want to win.

And of course we have GB, with the special rules of winning if nobody wins and taking away VP from other countries.

So, there still be possible for a player to bid 200 VP over GB and win the game using wisely the both above rules!!!!

That is why I thought that it could be nice to have a maximum bidding for country.
So, if 2 players are crazy about playing FR, they will probably bid the highest....so the losser of the random dice will play an unliked country...it is a high risk!!!

_____________________________

Santiago y cierra España!!!

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 26
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 9:20:20 PM   
Madcombinepilot


Posts: 52
Joined: 5/13/2004
From: Saskatoon, Canada
Status: offline
This is awesome!!!

Looks great, can't wait to play it!

(in reply to ardilla)
Post #: 27
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/21/2004 10:57:14 PM   
Pippin


Posts: 1233
Joined: 11/9/2002
Status: offline
quote:

Another problem is the ability of GB to win the game if nobody reaches the total VP needed. This can make a player bid very high for GB and then, with the other ability of GR of substract own VP from another country at war with, will make possible to GB winning even with a bid of 300 VP!!!!


I have thought about this ages ago, but in the end decided it is not too much a problem. Lets look at it this way, Britain has 2 ways to win. Get her quota, or hope everyone else ends up in a draw. Now, lets assume she bids infinit on herfself. Great, now she has effectively cut her winning strategies down by half. There is only one way now, hoping everyone results in a draw.

What has changed from before, till now? Some could argue it is almost a disadvantage to her now. And lets not forget, if she goes around trying to subtract victory points from everyone else, they are going to get very, very mad. Having a lot of mad players at you is not safe for your country, to say the least. In no time, you won't even have a half point to your name, so how can you subtract from others? Not to mention having your status slide wayyyy low is not a good tactic for your country's health.

In any case, if Britain wants to do this tactic, let her. She has always been able to do so, what is the difference now(except one less winning path)? Seems more of a disadvantage.

Oh, and BTW, once Britain falls, she is out of the game for good.... so you can see what may happen here... :P

_____________________________

Nelson stood on deck and observed as the last of the Spanish fleets sank below the waves…

(in reply to Madcombinepilot)
Post #: 28
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/22/2004 12:06:01 AM   
ian77

 

Posts: 627
Joined: 4/27/2004
From: Scotland
Status: offline
I have thought about this ages ago, but in the end decided it is not too much a problem.

[/quote]
Thats a pretty good summary of the position with regard to an over inflated bid for GB Pippin IMHO.

The "draw means GB victory" just adds yet another layer to this game and its off map diplomacy. I've said it before but it is still true, GOD I LOVE THIS GAME!!

(in reply to Pippin)
Post #: 29
RE: OK, I've added a bid field! - 7/22/2004 1:59:33 AM   
yammahoper

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 4/23/2004
Status: offline
Aftre our first few times playing EiA, we gave up on bidding and eiher drew from a hat or bid on each nation using 0ne through seven. People who bid the same roled for resolution.

Bidding does not need to be used at all. It certainly is not intended to be an intricate part of the game, though if people bid high, it would become so. I have never seen a bid over 40, which was for Russia, and Russia both won that game and became the first non dominant power to achieve dominace (our dreaded Russian/French alliance game, won by the man who introduced us to the game of Eia, and always a brilliant player). The way the required victory point totals vary from nation to nation (330 for Aus, 400 for Fra, 370 for GB, 320 for Pru, 325 for Sp, 335 for Ru and 315 for Tu) means diferent levels of aggression and terms of peace can be handled. France needs to stay at war almost continually to win (there are 40 eco phases in the game over the 10 years, and VP's are only awarded then, so Fr needs 10 each phase to simply stay in the running...for those who have not played the game, the Political Status table is self adjusting. The higher you are up the table via winning battles and wars then the further you fall during the adjustment phase, and will continue to fall untill in the nuetral zone, where 7 VP an eco phase is the rule).

Quick math will show what a nation needs to average to win in ten years, though I have never seen a game last the full 120 months before someone won. When to declare war, when to win battles, when to gain the political points for conquering Minor Nations, when to gain a few points with an alliance...all relate to political staus and the earning of VP. Go on a hot run of 15 to 13 VP a phase for four to seven phases and you take a nice lead, and even TURKEY can do this. In fact, Turkeys lead becomes even larger because of the reduced points needed to win. The answer if this occurs? Have Austria of GB beat up Turkey! Anyway, I have seen every nation except Spain and Prussia win (Spain was usually an UMP in our table top games).

BTW, all these VP totals to win assume you are using the ability to manipulate your economy for more money and manpower, which results in a negative adjustment on the Political Status Table (but gives extra money and manpower for building stuff as you super heat your economy), or slow your economy and loose money and man power, which results in a positive adjustment on the Political Status Table (as you spend more money on your nations infrastructure and less on the war machine). With this rule, nations like Turkey, Spain, Prussia, Russia and Austria can battle their way into the Dominant Zone on the Political Status table, gaining 9 VP an eco phase minimum, and STAY there without fighting at all, just manipulating there economy. The nations on the fringe of the map, like Turkey, Spain and RUssia, can use this tactic most effectively, fighting a few minor nations, conquering them, then sitting back, negative manipulate thier economys, and build their armies. Sooner or later, France or GB will HAVE to come for them, typically by (if France) bum rushing them, or (if GB) paying an ally to to it for you.

yamma

_____________________________

...nothing is more chaotic than a battle won...

(in reply to ian77)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815 >> OK, I've added a bid field! Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

3.113