Sea of JAPAN ?

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Sea of JAPAN ?

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Sea of JAPAN ?

Page: [1] 2 next > >>

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 6:53:55 AM

mjjhnim

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline

Hi, thankyou for the great game and many support on this board.
but I would like to address the need for some changes in the map.
The Sea of Japan is totally wrong, it should be EAST SEA. It was "east sea"
for hundreds of years...before Japan's muddling.

Japan is economic power house and never learned from the
history about their savage treatment of Koreans and Chinese and Allied POWs.
If they have the means, these pople will do the same things...

Now they want a sea of their own... so instead of EAST SEA, its now Sea of Japan.
Japan spends alot of money, influencing map making companies around the world.
But what is wrong is wrong. I hope MATRIX can make things right.

These map problems may mean nothing to you guys. But it sure means a lot to
millions of people in Korea. We been mudered and attacked by Japan for many
years, and now in this modern age, just because Japan is regaining their world
power status in economy,and military. We shall never accept Japan taking our
sea and land.

Please help us.

Post #: 1

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:03:15 AM

Fallschirmjager

Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline

Every map I am finding online has it listed as the sea of Japan

_____________________________

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 2

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:23:40 AM

mjjhnim

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline

We can not match the amount of money spent by Japan on this current issue.
And in World politics we are a small fish compared to Japan.

I am sure you can find some true maps(old maps), US government site lists them as
East sea/Sea of Japan. Some other countries lists them according to Europian
standard based by FRANCE.

France originally listed them as EAST SEA, but a few years ago, after a pressure from
Japan, they changed it to Sea of japan.

We can only read this movement of Japan as a future leverage to use it against us.
when the time comes for the island despute called "doko-do" located between korea
and Japan.

Imagine if some xxx country became so powerful, and they rename Pacific ocean to
sea of XXX. Then they start to say the Howaii is their Island. What would you do?

(in reply to Fallschirmjager)

Post #: 3

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 8:26:35 AM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
Status: offline

When the Irish are the Masters of the world the Pacific ocean will be renamed Flipper Bay.

And France will be turned into a parking lot EXCEPT for the champagne region.

All other changes will be determined after our leaders sober up.

< Message edited by flipperwasirish -- 8/12/2004 1:27:13 AM >

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 4

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 8:56:20 AM

carnifex

Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40� 48' 43N Longtitude 74� 7' 29W
Status: offline

The map files are simple bitmaps. You can alter them yourself with any editor and rename anything you like. As for Matrix changing the maps, you can forget about it - not for political reasons but because they won't make us download the file again for a simple cosmetic issue that can be fixed locally to the users liking.

As a matter of fact, you can already download a map mod which has all the sea names removed.

I must also take exception as your characterization of the Japanese. Whatever your issues are with the Japanese nation and people, they do not belong here on this forum. It is simply wrong to bring this kind of inflamatory rhetoric here. Wargaming is a controversial hobby enough as it is, with "civilians" sometimes unable to sometimes understand why some people enjoy pushing stacks of SS units around a map, when those same units in real life were involved in questionable events that resulted in horrific loss of life.

(in reply to wworld7)

Post #: 5

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 9:09:17 AM

Bodhi

Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjjhnim

I am sure you can find some true maps(old maps), US government site lists them as
East sea/Sea of Japan. Some other countries lists them according to Europian
standard based by FRANCE.

France originally listed them as EAST SEA, but a few years ago, after a pressure from
Japan, they changed it to Sea of japan.

I didn't know that the French were the guardians of the names on English-language maps. Of course, I knew that they are (or at least they think they are

) the guardians of such things as the some of the SI units like the metre and kilogram, just didn't realise they also had the map-naming concession. It seems a bit strange that they'd bow to Japanese pressure and rename the East Sea to the Japan Sea without also trying to swap "The Manche" for the "English Channel".

_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 6

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 10:07:00 AM

mjjhnim

Posts: 6
Joined: 7/1/2004
Status: offline

I am sorry but simple characterization might be true in your view point...

but I saw how germans totally cleared up their WWII wrong doings with their neighbers
and I don't see Germany going around and asking for land or sea concessions to Poland,France...etc.

what you claim as rhetoric is reality for us. check the news papers in the Asia sections...

(in reply to carnifex)

Post #: 7

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 1:17:12 PM

Hortlund

Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline

While we are at it, can we change "Los Angeles" to "City of Angels"?

I am so sick and tired of the use of Spanish in an English map

It is time to break the back of the Spanish influence over US spelling and domestic issues. Spain is an economic power house and never learned from the history about their savage exploitation of US cities. Spain is right now opressing us all by forcing us to use their language!

MATRIX can make things right!!

Btw, FRANCE supports my struggle against Spanish city names in North America!

< Message edited by Panzerjaeger Hortlund -- 8/12/2004 12:29:19 PM >

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 8

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 1:45:35 PM

Platoonist

Posts: 1342
Joined: 5/11/2003
From: Kila Hana
Status: offline

I agree with carnifex. Download the blank map mod....or Photoshop them yourself. I simply don't think it's in Matrix Games' power to correct every geographical injustice in the world.

*Sigh* Now I know why the only Sea of Tranquility is on the moon. Doubtless someday there will be complaints. Didn't those *%@$#& Earthlings know there isn't even any water in 'em?

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 9

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 3:36:36 PM

52nd Lowland

Posts: 244
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?

_____________________________

(in reply to Platoonist)

Post #: 10

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 3:46:55 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

quote:

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?

No, the Sea of Japan is the one between Japan and Korea. The Inland Sea is the one between Honshu, Shikoku, and Kyushu, where Hiroshima/Kure is.

By the way, this has been called the Sea of Japan for many years. I have always known this body of water by that name, and every account of WWII I have ever read refers to it as the Sea of Japan. In fact, until this morning I have never heard of it referred to as anything but "the Sea of Japan".

The arguement that the Japanese somehow caused some name switch here just doesn't hold water. In fact the idea that the Japanese could have had any such influence, either prior to WWII or after it, is just fishy. And should you persist in this uncalled-for baiting, then sir, all I can say to you is: go jump in a lake!

< Message edited by irrelevant -- 8/12/2004 8:49:33 AM >

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to 52nd Lowland)

Post #: 11

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 3:52:53 PM

Bodhi

Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: 52nd Lowland

Is the Sea of Japan also called the Inland Sea by Japanese ?

No, the inland sea is between Shikoku and Honshu. See hexs 60,41 62,41 & 62,42 on the map. Looks more like a big river on the map, but it isn't that wide at points as some of the longest bridges in the world span it.

_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to 52nd Lowland)

Post #: 12

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 3:57:37 PM

52nd Lowland

Posts: 244
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Thanx always wondered where it was

_____________________________

(in reply to Bodhi)

Post #: 13

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 4:00:59 PM

Arkady

Posts: 1262
Joined: 5/31/2002
From: 27th Penal Battalion
Status: offline

whoa, East Sea is called Sea of Japan...terrible, entire game is spoiled

East Sea or Sea of Japan?

What is the historically correct name for the body of water lying between Korea and Japan? There are many opinions, and in the world of geography and maps there is often more than one answer. In short, it depends on whom you ask.

Before the 18th century, no one name was consistently used, and in fact varied names such as "East Sea," "Sea of Korea," "Sea of Japan" and "Oriental Sea" appeared in and on old maps, publications and atlases. Then for a variety of reasons the "Sea of Japan" became more prominent in the 19th and 20th centuries.

In the late 1990s the Voluntary Agency Network of Korea (VANK) began an aggressive letter and email writing campaign, all in an effort to get the world, especially map makers, travel guides and geography web sites to include the East Sea, whenever the long-established Sea of Japan was found in print.

Their claim that the East Sea has some historical precedent worked, as some major book and map publishers, educational web sites and other reference materials now include the East Sea name along with the Sea of Japan.
source: worldatlas.com

mjjhnim, are you member of VANK ?

_____________________________

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 14

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 4:13:26 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

Everyone, it seems, has his own little axe to grind.....

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Arkady)

Post #: 15

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 4:32:47 PM

Crimguy

Posts: 1409
Joined: 8/15/2003
From: Cave Creek, AZ
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Everyone, it seems, has his own little axe to grind.....

Yup. But when you're like me, and your axe is complaining about your wife, you're in good company!

(in reply to tsimmonds)

Post #: 16

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 4:51:19 PM

rogueusmc

Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline

I know we have a lake that some call 'Lake Dallas' and some call it 'Lake Louisville' it all depends on the side of the lake you live on....

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

(in reply to Crimguy)

Post #: 17

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:10:06 PM

vonmoltke

Posts: 182
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Bloomfield, NJ
Status: offline

We need a tinfoil hat smilie.

_____________________________

This space reserved for future expansion

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 18

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:14:16 PM

carnifex

Posts: 1295
Joined: 7/1/2002
From: Latitude 40� 48' 43N Longtitude 74� 7' 29W
Status: offline

How about this one ------->

(in reply to vonmoltke)

Post #: 19

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:15:52 PM

vonmoltke

Posts: 182
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Bloomfield, NJ
Status: offline

Forgot about that one. It is appropriate.

Tinfoil has its own special quality, though.

_____________________________

This space reserved for future expansion

(in reply to carnifex)

Post #: 20

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:31:19 PM

Hortlund

Posts: 2884
Joined: 10/13/2000
Status: offline

*sigh* No one thinks Im funny

_____________________________

The era of procrastination, of half-measures, of soothing and baffling expedients, of delays, is coming to a close.
In its place we are entering a period of consequences..

(in reply to vonmoltke)

Post #: 21

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:40:22 PM

tsimmonds

Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline

Sorry, we're all too busy laughing at our own jokes. Nice post, btw. LMAO. Really, I did.

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 22

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 5:47:59 PM

Tomo

Posts: 66
Joined: 4/10/2004
From: JAPAN
Status: offline

Dear mjjhnim.

Welcome a board.
I know your hard feelings about historical problem.
However this is just a game. Not real war. Relax

This game simulate during WWII period. Unfortunately Korea was occupied by Japan at that time.
I feel "Sea of Japan" is suitable for WitP( I don't know for other place), isn't it?
Let's enjoy WitP together

BTW, Which side are you playing this game? Of course as Allied player?

< Message edited by Tomo -- 8/12/2004 6:38:55 PM >

_____________________________

Japanese wargamer. Will post from "the other side" .

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 23

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 6:51:24 PM

pompack

Posts: 2582
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: University Park, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

I know we have a lake that some call 'Lake Dallas' and some call it 'Lake Louisville' it all depends on the side of the lake you live on....

Yes but some ignore the civic chauvinism and call it Garza-Little Elm Lake (especially the people who live in Little Elm, Texas)

(in reply to rogueusmc)

Post #: 24

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 6:54:17 PM

ZOOMIE1980

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mjjhnim

Hi, thankyou for the great game and many support on this board.
but I would like to address the need for some changes in the map.
The Sea of Japan is totally wrong, it should be EAST SEA. It was "east sea"
for hundreds of years...before Japan's muddling.

Japan is economic power house and never learned from the
history about their savage treatment of Koreans and Chinese and Allied POWs.
If they have the means, these pople will do the same things...

Now they want a sea of their own... so instead of EAST SEA, its now Sea of Japan.
Japan spends alot of money, influencing map making companies around the world.
But what is wrong is wrong. I hope MATRIX can make things right.

These map problems may mean nothing to you guys. But it sure means a lot to
millions of people in Korea. We been mudered and attacked by Japan for many
years, and now in this modern age, just because Japan is regaining their world
power status in economy,and military. We shall never accept Japan taking our
sea and land.

Please help us.

Take it to a political forum....

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 25

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:00:05 PM

mdiehl

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

Isn't "Sea of Japan" in any case a name bestowed by the 'evil' UK (

rule, Britannia) and Portugese?

Well, mjjhnim, I'm not sure for whom you are advocating. Your point is worth noting but people will call things what they will. I'm pretty sure that most Native Americans would not refer to the "Gulf of California" as that or the "Sea of Cortez." Most Americans call Arizona, New Mexico, and southern California the "southwest" but most Mexicans call it the "northwest." Some Mexicans call it "stolen" land despite the fact that the US purchased half the property fair and square, and conquered the other half in a war started by Mexico. Ironic that the Mexicans call it that when it was they, in turn, who "stole it" from the Queen of Spain, and Spain, in turn, stole it from the various Native Americans living there at the time.

So what can you do? Every tribe has a different name for geographic features great and small, but you can only use one name on a map.

< Message edited by mdiehl -- 8/12/2004 5:00:52 PM >

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to pompack)

Post #: 26

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:02:28 PM

ZOOMIE1980

Posts: 1284
Joined: 4/9/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

Isn't "Sea of Japan" in any case a name bestowed by the 'evil' UK ( rule, Britannia) and Portugese?

Well, mjjhnim, I'm not sure for whom you are advocating. Your point is worth noting but people will call things what they will. I'm pretty sure that most Native Americans would not refer to the "Gulf of California" as that or the "Sea of Cortez." Most Americans call Arizona, New Mexico, and southern California the "southwest" but most Mexicans call it the "northwest." Some Mexicans call it "stolen" land despite the fact that the US purchased half the property fair and square, and conquered the other half in a war started by Mexico. Ironic that the Mexicans call it that when it was they, in turn, who "stole it" from the Queen of Spain, and Spain, in turn, stole it from the various Native Americans living there at the time.

So what can you do? Every tribe has a different name for geographic features great and small, but you can only use one name on a map.

The winners write the history books and the maps....been that way from the dawn of human history....

(in reply to mdiehl)

Post #: 27

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:03:36 PM

UncleBuck

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline

You are Crazy. I named that body of water. It shoudl rightly be called... BOB. I was going to name it Robert, but I thought it was too pretentious.

So I woudl liek you to stop lobbying to get the name changed to "East Sea" I am not mentioning it to Matrix because , well I don't care what they call it. But I do think that it shoudl be called BOB and not East Sea.

I am looking at having it's legal name changed from BOB to EEKY EEKY EEKY NI NI NI But I am not sure Monty Python woudl approve.

_____________________________

(in reply to mjjhnim)

Post #: 28

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:16:17 PM

mdiehl

Posts: 5998
Joined: 10/21/2000
Status: offline

As an example of what happens when negotiations end in a draw... there is a lake in the state of Massachusetts that has retained its Nipmuck (Native American) name, which I can't spell, and translates to: "You fish on your side, we'll fish on our side, nobody fishes in the middle."

_____________________________

Show me a fellow who rejects statistical analysis a priori and I'll show you a fellow who has no knowledge of statistics.

Didn't we have this conversation already?

(in reply to UncleBuck)

Post #: 29

RE: Sea of JAPAN ? - 8/12/2004 7:30:00 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline

It seems a bit silly to me. Down here in Texas we have the Gulf of Mexico and nobody assumes it's Mexican territory. There's bits of it that are Mexico and bits of it that are US, while the rest is neutral I suppose. Seems that's how waters would be interpeted worldwide wouldn't it?

(in reply to mdiehl)

Post #: 30