Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Name This...(148)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Name This...(148) Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 1:45:30 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		???









_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view
Post #: 1
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 2:02:26 AM   
Desertdaddy

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 7/17/2004
From: Tampa, FL
Status: offline 		USS Yorktown, Mid afternoon 4 June 42, during battle of Midway. Photo taken from one of the escorts.

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 2
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 2:07:01 AM   
timtom


Posts: 2358
Joined: 1/29/2003
From: Aarhus, Denmark
Status: offline 		Damn...beat me to it...couldda been my first

_____________________________

Where's the Any key?


(in reply to Desertdaddy)
Post #: 3
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 2:24:05 AM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Yes..the Yorktown. I think the picture shows the Yorktown taking a torpedo hit from on of the 33 Kates in the second wave. She is already damaged from 3 bomb hits and the crash of a Val into her deck earlier in the day and was only able to make about 20 kts at the time.


What is that splash to the right in the picture.....? AA fire hitting the water..?

_____________________________


(in reply to timtom)
Post #: 4
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 3:54:53 AM   
cyberwop36

 

Posts: 306
Joined: 7/5/2004
From: Valparaiso, Indiana
Status: offline 		"Mandrake my boy, remember you presicous bodily fluids"

a man's essence comes from having pure bodily fluids

Feed me ammo Mandrake.

i love that movie

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 5
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 4:07:58 AM   
Fallschirmjager


Posts: 6793
Joined: 3/18/2002
From: Chattanooga, Tennessee
Status: offline 		5" shells make large clouds.

_____________________________


(in reply to cyberwop36)
Post #: 6
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 4:09:25 AM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		Another opportunity for me to make a snarky comment.

(Although I was going to say Yorktown at Midway also, but too many others beat me to it.)

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to cyberwop36)
Post #: 7
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 4:24:42 AM   
RUPD3658


Posts: 6922
Joined: 8/28/2002
From: East Brunswick, NJ
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

5" shells make large clouds.

But in the shape of a plus sign (+)? Looks almost like a Baka on a attack run. Didn't the photographer clean his lens?

_____________________________

"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has limits"- Darwin Awards 2003

"No plan survives contact with the enemy." - Field Marshall Helmuth von Moltke


(in reply to Fallschirmjager)
Post #: 8
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 3:39:08 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RUPD3658

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fallschirmjager

5" shells make large clouds.

But in the shape of a plus sign (+)? Looks almost like a Baka on a attack run. Didn't the photographer clean his lens?

This photo took several seconds to load, from the top down as usual. I thought the uppermost flak bursts looked familiar, but the moment I saw the "+", I knew what photo it was.

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to RUPD3658)
Post #: 9
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 3:58:42 PM   
Rainerle

 

Posts: 463
Joined: 7/24/2002
From: Burghausen/Bavaria
Status: offline 		Actually the first one I would have known

_____________________________


Image brought to you by courtesy of Subchaser!

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 10
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 4:42:19 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainerle

Actually the first one I would have known


Phht..I could tell from the top of the first cloud BEFORE the first flak burst

_____________________________


(in reply to Rainerle)
Post #: 11
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 4:46:22 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Almost too easy.

The splash is interesting. Torpedo? Bomb? Shell? Debris? Aircraft going down?

_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 12
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/17/2004 5:17:00 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Belisarius

Almost too easy.

The splash is interesting. Torpedo? Bomb? Shell? Debris? Aircraft going down?



Dont think its a torpedo as there is black smoke in the splash..most likely AAA fire as there are splashes in the distance that appear to be in line. Could be a plane going in to the drink though. Dont think its a bomb as this appears to be the Kate attack on the already damaged Yorktown (note list and smoke).

Would a AAA round with a timed fuse detonate like that if it hit the water? I dont know.

_____________________________


(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 13
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 6:00:34 AM   
Brady


Posts: 10701
Joined: 10/25/2002
From: Oregon,USA
Status: offline 		USS Yorktown, it is

_____________________________





Beta Team Member for:

WPO
PC
CF
AE
WiTE

Obi-wan Kenobi said it best: A lot of the reality we perceive depend on our point of view

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 14
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 6:15:02 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		That big splash to the right looks very much like a 5" shell splash.

Would that be the Kate that dropped the torpedo which is hitting Yorktown in the
distance above and slightly right of Yorktown between the two flak bursts? (Looks almost like another plane above that one and farther away).

(in reply to Brady)
Post #: 15
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 10:26:38 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

That big splash to the right looks very much like a 5" shell splash.

Would that be the Kate that dropped the torpedo which is hitting Yorktown in the
distance above and slightly right of Yorktown between the two flak bursts? (Looks almost like another plane above that one and farther away).


Wouldn't know if it's the Kate, but it's very likely to be a Kate at least.

"The other" plane is probably a dust speck. But the first you mention is certainly an aircraft.

_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 16
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 10:34:41 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

That big splash to the right looks very much like a 5" shell splash.

Would that be the Kate that dropped the torpedo which is hitting Yorktown in the
distance above and slightly right of Yorktown between the two flak bursts? (Looks almost like another plane above that one and farther away).


Highly likely. I can't remember which book has the account, but I remember reading descriptions of the escorts attempting to fire 5" and 8" shells into the water directly in front of attacking Kates because they were flying so low. I really want to say Miracle at Midway, but I can't remember to save my life.

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 17
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 11:26:07 AM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		Am I the only one who finds 5" a bit large for Kate shooting?

I mean, it's fine for level bombers, but can they really be fast enough for tracking an attack aircraft bearing down on you?

_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 18
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 11:39:27 AM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Well, there's no proximity fuze at that moment, but wouldn't you rather try?

_____________________________

I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 19
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 2:41:41 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

I mean, it's fine for level bombers, but can they really be fast enough for tracking an attack aircraft bearing down on you?

If an aircraft is "bearing down on you", there is very little tracking involved. The plane is heading towards you, pointing at you. It is coming closer, but there is almost no deflection. The only good thing about being the target.....

_____________________________

Fear the kitten!

(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 20
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 2:54:10 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

quote:

I mean, it's fine for level bombers, but can they really be fast enough for tracking an attack aircraft bearing down on you?

If an aircraft is "bearing down on you", there is very little tracking involved. The plane is heading towards you, pointing at you. It is coming closer, but there is almost no deflection. The only good thing about being the target.....


Hm. Unless it's perfectly aligned with the barrels, I guess the fire coordinator will get his palms sweaty nonetheless trying to get new coordinates down to the turret.

Like shooting pigeons with a catapult

_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 21
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 3:46:55 PM   
Barlock

 

Posts: 12
Joined: 2/26/2004
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		As one of my sergeants used to say:

"The only useless weapon is the one that isn't fired in the general direction of the enemy"

Still - it'd be preferable if that weapon had a better than reasonable chance of actually hitting something

(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 22
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 4:09:32 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		But it's easy to picture the reaction of the pilot, should a 5" ever strike home:

"LOOK AT THE SIZE OF THAT--*"



_____________________________


Got StuG?

(in reply to Barlock)
Post #: 23
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 4:18:33 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline 		Actually I thought it was policy to drop heavy shells, 5in plus,on purpose into the water at a certain distance (presumably at reasonable torp drop range) to dissuade low flyers ie a sort of waterspout curtain barrage rather than aiming at anything?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by strawbuk -- 8/18/2004 2:19:40 PM >

_____________________________



Twinkle twinkle PBY
Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

(in reply to Belisarius)
Post #: 24
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 4:27:01 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		(in reply to Belisarius)

The 5"/25 cal and 5"/38 cal dual purpose guns were the standard heavy AAA for naval ships in the 40's (and for some, like us poor Coasties, into the 80's). At the beginning of WW2, they fired a semi armor piercing shell known as AA Common with a
manually set time fuze. Essentially this was effective against aircraft flying straight and level (as a barrage) or if it actually hit the plane. It was also the same shell used in surface engagements. In the latter part of 1942 the "VT" proximity-fuzed shell was introduced. This one carried a miniature radar transponder that detonated the shell at it's closest point of approach to its intended target. I'm not sure of this but I believe that there was also some mechanism to direct the majority of the fragments from the shell in the general direction of the target As a result the 5"/38 cal became very deadly against a/c - particularly those attacking your own ship since that is essentially a no deflection shot. In what I believe was it's first use at the Battle of the Santa Cruz Islands, the South Dakota splashed 25 out of 27 bombers from Junyo even though they weren't even detected until they had begun their attack runs.
Although the VT shell was available to the US Army its use was prohibited over land up until the Battle of the Bulge so that the Germans wouldn't get ahold of it. It was finally employed against attacking infantry on Elsenborn Ridge I believe with devastating results. The shell's VT fuses caused them to explode at 3-5m over the ground.

From what I understand the introduction of the VT shell is NOT modelled in this game or in UV but I guess the Nips have enough handicaps without adding another one. In UV, in 1943, every time I assign a squadron to antiship attack I write the squadron off as expended. Unless the squadron jumps some poor minesweep or LCI all by itself then the squadron is pretty much used up due to the losses from the flak.

BTW the Japanese produced an 18.1" equivalent to AA Common which Yamato and Musashi both used against a/c in their final sorties. I wonder how well they worked?

(in reply to Barlock)
Post #: 25
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 9:34:25 PM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline 		Minor correction on the VT fuse. I believe the Germans already had one and they used used against the Russians in 43 or 44, I beleive. But the Russians, thru the Swiss embassy, told the Germans to stop using it or they (the Russians) would start using gas. The Germans stopped. I got this from an ex-panzer grendadier who fought in WWII. Whether the German design was similar to the US design I don't know, it may have used air pressure. The US used it in the Bulge to hold the northern shoulder. Without the fuse 6th SS PZ army would have been turned lose instead of having to follow 5th PZ army out.
FYI!

_____________________________

Capt. Cliff

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 26
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 9:41:38 PM   
UncleBuck

 

Posts: 633
Joined: 10/31/2003
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Status: offline 		One other minor thing, I beleive the land use of the VT shell caused it to explode at 30 m every time. This was optimum for swatting those infantry guys. It was high enough to cause great dispursion of the fragments, but close enough that it was still plenty powerful. I also beleive that it was only used in guns 105 mm or larger. (4.1") Something to do with teh size of the VT fuse itself.

UB

_____________________________


(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 27
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 9:42:31 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		(in response to Capt Cliff)

Never heard of a German "VT" fuze. Would seem that they might have found such a thing useful for the air defense of the Reich Homeland where I'm sure its effectiveness would have been noted. In all that I have read I have heard no mention of it though in either German or Allied sources.

(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 28
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/18/2004 9:48:27 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		(also in response to Capt Cliff)

And so the Germans agreed not to use their "VT" fuze (?) and the Russians agreed not to use gas and the war on the Russian Front remained quite civilized. OOOOOOOOOOOOK.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 29
RE: Name This...(148) - 8/19/2004 4:59:23 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: strawbuk

Actually I thought it was policy to drop heavy shells, 5in plus,on purpose into the water at a certain distance (presumably at reasonable torp drop range) to dissuade low flyers ie a sort of waterspout curtain barrage rather than aiming at anything?

It was a common tactic used against torpedo bombers you put up a wall of water using non-AA type guns. The idea being that a torpedo bomber had to make a slow, low approach to it's drop point if it hit the water column it would stall (low and slow) if the splash hit the bomber the pilot would loose control with no altitude to recover. You put the wall just before where you thought the drop point would be, very un-nerving to the pilots too. My dad mentioned doing this with the main guns on the USS Arkansas. Serveral books on torpedo bombers I have read mentioned this tatic. I guess the best ship for this would be the Brooklyn class Light Crusiers 15 6" Guns on rapid fire now that's a wall of water.

(in reply to strawbuk)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Name This...(148) Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.953