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Royal Navy Ship names - 8/18/2004 11:51:03 PM   
furious

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/30/2002
Status: offline 		While this question is connected to do with WitP it's more of a general history question, but seeing as how there are so many of you history buffs here i was hoping you'd be able to help.
When new Royal Navy ships were commisioned in World war II how were their names decided upon? I realise that certin ship classes would all be named after a topic, for instance the 'County' class cruisers, but, if for instance you are launching 12 'K' class destroyers who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


Thanks in advance

steve
Post #: 1
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/18/2004 11:58:54 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


I do not know how the names beginning with "K" were chosen in the British navy. But your question did remind me of the explanation in "Hell in a Very Small Place" by Bernard Fall as to how the various French firebases at Dien Bien Phu were named. They were all French first names ("Yvette, "Marie", things like that) of wives of members of the French high command or military. Per Fall the commander (de Castries) was, uh, commemorating past relationships.

But then that was not the stolid Royal Navy. That was the French.

< Message edited by Beezle -- 8/18/2004 9:59:45 PM >

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RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 12:02:40 AM   
Bobthehatchit


Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: furious

While this question is connected to do with WitP it's more of a general history question, but seeing as how there are so many of you history buffs here i was hoping you'd be able to help.
When new Royal Navy ships were commisioned in World war II how were their names decided upon? I realise that certin ship classes would all be named after a topic, for instance the 'County' class cruisers, but, if for instance you are launching 12 'K' class destroyers who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


Thanks in advance

steve


Think firstly they would check the list of ship names previously in comission with the RN in the past and re-use them, the rest i guess they just made up!

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Just my 2 pence worth.
I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
But thats my opinion for what its worth!

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Post #: 3
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 12:11:55 AM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline
quote:

the rest i guess they just made up


Kibitzer
Kerfuffle
Kleptomaniac
Kindergarten (scratch that, might be mistaken for a German destroyer)
Konsternation
Kabob
Kaleidescope
Keelhauler (give that one a strict captain)
Kyphosis (one that took a torpedo midships)
Karate (scratch that one too. Sound too Japanese)

Piece of cake.

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Post #: 4
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 12:15:09 AM   
Bobthehatchit


Posts: 1478
Joined: 4/27/2003
From: GREAT BRITAIN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

quote:

the rest i guess they just made up


Kibitzer
Kerfuffle
Kleptomaniac
Kindergarten (scratch that, might be mistaken for a German destroyer)
Konsternation
Kabob
Kaleidescope
Keelhauler (give that one a strict captain)
Kyphosis (one that took a torpedo midships)
Karate (scratch that one too. Sound too Japanese)

Piece of cake.


Hehe Nice try!

_____________________________

"Look at yours before laughing at mine". Garfield 1984.

Wanted: ISDII Low millage in Imperial gray.


Just my 2 pence worth.
I might not be right.
Hell I am probaby wrong.
But thats my opinion for what its worth!

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 5
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 12:34:10 AM   
furious

 

Posts: 24
Joined: 5/30/2002
Status: offline 		Think firstly they would check the list of ship names previously in comission with the RN in the past and re-use them, the rest i guess they just made up!





I wonder what joker came up with HMS Beaver then?

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Post #: 6
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 2:40:01 AM   
The Dude

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 7/28/2004
From: Abbotsford, BC, Canada
Status: offline 		in any case RN ship names are very fitting and very cool 99% of the time. Implacable, Indefatigeable, i mean i doubt kids today even know these words exist

(in reply to furious)
Post #: 7
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 4:10:47 AM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline 		My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.


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Post #: 8
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 1:08:45 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		The Royal Navy has ship names which go back in time for hundreds of years, and like other navies, are called back into service as necessity dictates. ARK ROYAL; ROYAL SOVEREIGN, INVINCIBLE, REVENGE and so on are ship names that have been used many times. Over the past 400 years or so of the formal existence of the Royal Navy there have been some 24, 000 ships3. RN ship names extend across a wide spectrum from counties and towns, to bird species, to heroic individuals and places, and the mythical Gods. The naming conventions have evolved over the many years of the Navy and the origins are unclear.

Note that unlike the US, ships are never given names of people. Who was ARLEIGH BURKE anyway.

Actually not true as Shore Establishments (still ships though) do have names such as Collingwood, Nelson, Drake etc.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 9
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 1:20:37 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Who said never?. Capital ships were often named after people. Like Howe, Anson etc. One tradition of naming the first capital ship of a new reign after the monarch. E.g King George V . Title were often used like HMS Duke of York or the HMS Prince of Wales (sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers in the South China Sea, 10 December 1941),

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Post #: 10
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 1:21:01 PM   
steveh11Matrix


Posts: 944
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline 		Um: Nelson and Rodney, Hood, I'm sure there were others that slip my mind at the moment... :)

But yes, in general, I like the RN names. I have a game at home which allows me to create my own data files for ships, and as a bit of fun I added 3 1922-style battlecruisers to the GRand Fleet in 1918: HMS Hypothetical, Improbable and Impossible... :D

Steve.

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Post #: 11
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 1:23:04 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		Note that there are all naval.

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Post #: 12
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 1:33:38 PM   
Belisarius


Posts: 4041
Joined: 5/26/2001
From: Gothenburg, Sweden
Status: offline 		"HMS Kerfuffle"

Haha. That's a keeper.

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Post #: 13
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 3:14:58 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline 		HMS Kalamity would be apporproate for K class DDs eg the Kelly as captained by Mountbattan - great diplomat and all that but one of the few guys to reverse a ship into a minefield.

Please adopt a suitably Noel Coward tone when replying...

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An ill-omen in the sky
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Post #: 14
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 3:55:50 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		The "Malaya", a battleship of the Queen Elizabeth class, was paid for entirely by bonds sold in the colony of Malaya.

Image borrowed from : battleships-cruisers.co.uk


-F-

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Post #: 15
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 5:26:39 PM   
DBS


Posts: 513
Joined: 4/29/2004
Status: offline 		Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 16
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 5:35:59 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.




I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.

(in reply to byron13)
Post #: 17
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 6:05:49 PM   
strawbuk


Posts: 289
Joined: 4/30/2004
From: London via Glos
Status: offline 		I always have a soft spot for Flower class corvettes - saved our bacon in 41/42 (and indeed the powdered egg and avgas) and great names for little kilers - Pennywort,Bluebell and of course the famous Compass Rose..(ahem)

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Seeking Kido Bu-tai
Flying o' the sea so high
An ill-omen in the sky
Twinkle twinkle PBY
Pointing out who's next to fry

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Post #: 18
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 6:13:53 PM   
Mike Scholl

 

Posts: 9349
Joined: 1/1/2003
From: Kansas City, MO
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Note that there are all naval.


Yea.., right. Like the "Marlborough" or the "Iron Duke" (aka the Duke of Wellington)

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Post #: 19
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 8:22:13 PM   
byron13


Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.




I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.


Actually, it was meant to be a joke. But if there really was an "Outrageous," I guess I've been busted. I'll just change the name to the Improbable as above - another good one.

(in reply to Mike Scholl)
Post #: 20
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 8:39:05 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DBS

Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.


Naming another ship POW has to be bad juju. BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?

(in reply to DBS)
Post #: 21
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:01:19 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		It was named after Samuel Hood, later Viscount Hood of Whitley.

Bio of Admiral Hood



Edit : Actually, it looks like it was named for the whole family. They were very prolific seaman! (sorry, bad pun)

HMS Hood website

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/19/2004 2:06:20 PM >

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Post #: 22
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:09:59 PM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline
quote:

BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?


Actually the order was placed for HMS Hood in April 1916, the month before the gentleman in question was blown up.

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Post #: 23
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:16:29 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Yes Irrelevant, the Admiral Hood to which I was referring (and corroberrated by the Hood wesite), is actually from the mid-1700s. It's a common mistake that many believe that it was named for the guy at Jutland.

"The Mighty Hood was not, as some believe, named after Sir Horace Hood who died at Jutland. Neither was she named after the late 1880s First Sea Lord Sir Arthur Hood of Avalon. She was in fact, named for the greatest of the naval Hoods, 1st Viscount Hood of Whitley (Lord Samuel Hood). "

-F-

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Post #: 24
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:25:22 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Thanx for clearing that up. I remembered the Hood from the 1700s, didn't know about the one from the 1880s.

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 25
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:42:02 PM   
MengCiao

 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBS

Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.


Naming another ship POW has to be bad juju. BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?


The Juju question is interesting. Some names seem to be immune. Fro example HMS Invincible blew up with Hood on board at Jutland but HMS
Invinicible did fine in the Falklands in 1982.

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Post #: 26
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 9:53:12 PM   
Grapeape

 

Posts: 5
Joined: 8/19/2004
Status: offline 		Well, considering that British ship names were selected by commitee, one has to wonder....

...What were they smoking on the days they selected Dainty and Delight?

(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 27
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 10:07:10 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.




I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.

You forgot one: the full set was Curious, Spurious, and Outrageous. I don't know which was which (or if there ever was an "official unofficial" name for each), but they were the 15" (sic) light cruisers, Courageous and Glorious, and the 18" (sic sic!) lt cruiser, Furious. Sanity kicked in at the last moment, and none lasted long in their original design configuration (or, in Furious' case, at all - never had the second single 18" turret fitted)

Whilst we are on nicknames
1) explain the nicknames 'Nelsol' and 'Rodnol' for the only 2 triple turret 16" battleships ever in RN
2) Who, or what were the 'Wobbly Eight' and why?
(Name all of them!)
3) Name the participant navies, and casualties at the 'Battle of May Island'

Bonus points for other nicknames

< Message edited by HMSWarspite -- 8/19/2004 8:47:04 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 10:30:21 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		Grrr.

I have "Jane's Battleships of the 20th Century" at home in my bathroom. I'm quite sure that it would neatly answer most, if not all of your trivia.

Alas, I am stuck at the office for another 45 minutes. So I shall have to anticipate the answers, like the rest of the unwashed masses.

-F-

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Post #: 29
RE: Royal Navy Ship names - 8/19/2004 10:49:11 PM   
HMSWarspite

 

Posts: 1401
Joined: 4/13/2002
From: Bristol, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Grrr.

I have "Jane's Battleships of the 20th Century" at home in my bathroom. I'm quite sure that it would neatly answer most, if not all of your trivia.


Just because it is about ships, you don't have t read it near water!

I'll be impressed if Jane's has all the answers (bit too serious?)

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Post #: 30
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