Royal Navy Ship names (Full Version)

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furious -> Royal Navy Ship names (8/18/2004 11:51:03 PM)

While this question is connected to do with WitP it's more of a general history question, but seeing as how there are so many of you history buffs here i was hoping you'd be able to help.
When new Royal Navy ships were commisioned in World war II how were their names decided upon? I realise that certin ship classes would all be named after a topic, for instance the 'County' class cruisers, but, if for instance you are launching 12 'K' class destroyers who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


Thanks in advance

steve



DrewMatrix -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/18/2004 11:58:54 PM)

quote:

who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


I do not know how the names beginning with "K" were chosen in the British navy. But your question did remind me of the explanation in "Hell in a Very Small Place" by Bernard Fall as to how the various French firebases at Dien Bien Phu were named. They were all French first names ("Yvette, "Marie", things like that) of wives of members of the French high command or military. Per Fall the commander (de Castries) was, uh, commemorating past relationships.

But then that was not the stolid Royal Navy. That was the French.



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 12:02:40 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: furious

While this question is connected to do with WitP it's more of a general history question, but seeing as how there are so many of you history buffs here i was hoping you'd be able to help.
When new Royal Navy ships were commisioned in World war II how were their names decided upon? I realise that certin ship classes would all be named after a topic, for instance the 'County' class cruisers, but, if for instance you are launching 12 'K' class destroyers who decided which 'K' words will be used, was there a naming comitee, were a random number of words put in a hat and the first set number drawn were applied?


Thanks in advance

steve


Think firstly they would check the list of ship names previously in comission with the RN in the past and re-use them, the rest i guess they just made up![:'(]



DrewMatrix -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 12:11:55 AM)

quote:

the rest i guess they just made up


Kibitzer
Kerfuffle
Kleptomaniac
Kindergarten (scratch that, might be mistaken for a German destroyer)
Konsternation
Kabob
Kaleidescope
Keelhauler (give that one a strict captain)
Kyphosis (one that took a torpedo midships)
Karate (scratch that one too. Sound too Japanese)

Piece of cake.



Bobthehatchit -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 12:15:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

quote:

the rest i guess they just made up


Kibitzer
Kerfuffle
Kleptomaniac
Kindergarten (scratch that, might be mistaken for a German destroyer)
Konsternation
Kabob
Kaleidescope
Keelhauler (give that one a strict captain)
Kyphosis (one that took a torpedo midships)
Karate (scratch that one too. Sound too Japanese)

Piece of cake.


Hehe Nice try![;)]



furious -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 12:34:10 AM)

Think firstly they would check the list of ship names previously in comission with the RN in the past and re-use them, the rest i guess they just made up![:'(]





I wonder what joker came up with HMS Beaver then?



The Dude -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 2:40:01 AM)

in any case RN ship names are very fitting and very cool 99% of the time. Implacable, Indefatigeable, i mean i doubt kids today even know these words exist



byron13 -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 4:10:47 AM)

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.

[8D]



Chris21wen -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 1:08:45 PM)

The Royal Navy has ship names which go back in time for hundreds of years, and like other navies, are called back into service as necessity dictates. ARK ROYAL; ROYAL SOVEREIGN, INVINCIBLE, REVENGE and so on are ship names that have been used many times. Over the past 400 years or so of the formal existence of the Royal Navy there have been some 24, 000 ships3. RN ship names extend across a wide spectrum from counties and towns, to bird species, to heroic individuals and places, and the mythical Gods. The naming conventions have evolved over the many years of the Navy and the origins are unclear.

Note that unlike the US, ships are never given names of people. Who was ARLEIGH BURKE anyway.[:D]

Actually not true as Shore Establishments (still ships though) do have names such as Collingwood, Nelson, Drake etc.



Chris21wen -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 1:20:37 PM)

Who said never?[;)]. Capital ships were often named after people. Like Howe, Anson etc. One tradition of naming the first capital ship of a new reign after the monarch. E.g King George V . Title were often used like HMS Duke of York or the HMS Prince of Wales (sunk by Japanese torpedo bombers in the South China Sea, 10 December 1941),



steveh11Matrix -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 1:21:01 PM)

Um: Nelson and Rodney, Hood, I'm sure there were others that slip my mind at the moment... :)

But yes, in general, I like the RN names. I have a game at home which allows me to create my own data files for ships, and as a bit of fun I added 3 1922-style battlecruisers to the GRand Fleet in 1918: HMS Hypothetical, Improbable and Impossible... :D

Steve.



Chris21wen -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 1:23:04 PM)

Note that there are all naval.



Belisarius -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 1:33:38 PM)

"HMS Kerfuffle"

Haha. That's a keeper. [:D]



strawbuk -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 3:14:58 PM)

HMS Kalamity would be apporproate for K class DDs eg the Kelly as captained by Mountbattan - great diplomat and all that but one of the few guys to reverse a ship into a minefield.

Please adopt a suitably Noel Coward tone when replying...



Feinder -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 3:55:50 PM)

The "Malaya", a battleship of the Queen Elizabeth class, was paid for entirely by bonds sold in the colony of Malaya.

Image borrowed from : battleships-cruisers.co.uk
[img]http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/images/hmsmalaya4.jpg[/img]

-F-



DBS -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 5:26:39 PM)

Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.



Mike Scholl -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 5:35:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.

[8D]


I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.



strawbuk -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 6:05:49 PM)

I always have a soft spot for Flower class corvettes - saved our bacon in 41/42 (and indeed the powdered egg and avgas) and great names for little kilers - Pennywort,Bluebell and of course the famous Compass Rose..(ahem)



Mike Scholl -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 6:13:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H

Note that there are all naval.


Yea.., right. Like the "Marlborough" or the "Iron Duke" (aka the Duke of Wellington)



byron13 -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 8:22:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.

[8D]


I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.


Actually, it was meant to be a joke. But if there really was an "Outrageous," I guess I've been busted. I'll just change the name to the Improbable as above - another good one.



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 8:39:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBS

Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.


Naming another ship POW has to be bad juju. BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?



Feinder -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:01:19 PM)

It was named after Samuel Hood, later Viscount Hood of Whitley.

Bio of Admiral Hood



Edit : Actually, it looks like it was named for the whole family. They were very prolific seaman! (sorry, bad pun)

HMS Hood website



tsimmonds -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:09:59 PM)

quote:

BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?


Actually the order was placed for HMS Hood in April 1916, the month before the gentleman in question was blown up.



Feinder -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:16:29 PM)

Yes Irrelevant, the Admiral Hood to which I was referring (and corroberrated by the Hood wesite), is actually from the mid-1700s. It's a common mistake that many believe that it was named for the guy at Jutland.

"The Mighty Hood was not, as some believe, named after Sir Horace Hood who died at Jutland. Neither was she named after the late 1880s First Sea Lord Sir Arthur Hood of Avalon. She was in fact, named for the greatest of the naval Hoods, 1st Viscount Hood of Whitley (Lord Samuel Hood). "

-F-



anarchyintheuk -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:25:22 PM)

Thanx for clearing that up. I remembered the Hood from the 1700s, didn't know about the one from the 1880s.



MengCiao -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:42:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBS

Royal Navy ship names were, and still are, decided by a specific Committee. They still have to be approved by the reigning monarch - after all, they are His or Her Majesty's Ships - although this is pretty much a formality these days. There is almost always a common theme within a class - sometimes an initial letter, sometimes a genre of nouns and adjectives, such as the Flower class - albeit with the possibility as ever of exceptions for particular situations. As mentioned already, HM Ships Australia, New Zealand and Malaya in the Dreadnought/First World War period were all named for the Dominions which financed their construction. The current class of destroyers - Type 42s - are named for major regional towns, but their replacments, the Type 45, are going to be named with initial Ds - Daring, Dauntless, Diamond, Dragon, Defender and Duncan. Thus you have two heroic attributes, a gem, a generic military descriptor, a mythical beast and a famous RN admiral.

Nowadays, with a smaller RN and so many names to choose from, the arguments can be quite fierce as to which to go with. For example, some are unhappy that one of the two new large carriers planned for 2012 will not be another Ark Royal. Rather, the names already chosen are HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Prince of Wales - the latter not used since Force Z.


Naming another ship POW has to be bad juju. BTW which Hood was the HOOD named for? the one that was blown up at Jutland or a prior one?


The Juju question is interesting. Some names seem to be immune. Fro example HMS Invincible blew up with Hood on board at Jutland but HMS
Invinicible did fine in the Falklands in 1982.



Grapeape -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 9:53:12 PM)

Well, considering that British ship names were selected by commitee, one has to wonder....

...What were they smoking on the days they selected Dainty and Delight?



HMSWarspite -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 10:07:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Scholl

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

My favorites were the Contagious, Outrageous, and Indeterminable. I think the first two were battleships and the last was a carrier.

[8D]


I believe the names you are seeking are the "Spurious" and the "Outrageous"..., names
given to the totally under-armoured Battlecruisers Furious and Courageous when they
first arrived at Scapa Flow.

You forgot one: the full set was Curious, Spurious, and Outrageous. I don't know which was which (or if there ever was an "official unofficial" name for each), but they were the 15" (sic) light cruisers, Courageous and Glorious, and the 18" (sic sic!) lt cruiser, Furious. Sanity kicked in at the last moment, and none lasted long in their original design configuration (or, in Furious' case, at all - never had the second single 18" turret fitted)

Whilst we are on nicknames
1) explain the nicknames 'Nelsol' and 'Rodnol' for the only 2 triple turret 16" battleships ever in RN
2) Who, or what were the 'Wobbly Eight' and why?
(Name all of them!)
3) Name the participant navies, and casualties at the 'Battle of May Island'

Bonus points for other nicknames[:D]



Feinder -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 10:30:21 PM)

Grrr.

I have "Jane's Battleships of the 20th Century" at home in my bathroom. I'm quite sure that it would neatly answer most, if not all of your trivia.

Alas, I am stuck at the office for another 45 minutes. So I shall have to anticipate the answers, like the rest of the unwashed masses.

-F-



HMSWarspite -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 10:49:11 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Grrr.

I have "Jane's Battleships of the 20th Century" at home in my bathroom. I'm quite sure that it would neatly answer most, if not all of your trivia.


Just because it is about ships, you don't have t read it near water![8D]

I'll be impressed if Jane's has all the answers (bit too serious?)



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