RE: Royal Navy Ship names (Full Version)

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Feinder -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 10:51:33 PM)

I guess I'll let you know in about an hour...

[:'(]

-F-



Williamb -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/19/2004 11:21:53 PM)

Of course have the lesser know ships.

these are "Rediculus, Repossed, Renovated, the HMS Wobbly, HMS Warm Beer, and the HMS Knickers."



panda124c -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 1:00:10 AM)

Wasn't there an HMS Audacious?



Tiornu -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 2:04:29 AM)

The three Large Light Cruisers were called Spurious, Curious, and Outrageous. The Renowns were Refit and Repair. No respect for the effete!
I also have a Jane's Battleships in my bathroom. At least, the last 27 pages or so. (Hee!)
Every once in a while when I feel like a serious creative exercise, I'll enlist people in an effort to name a theoretical "Y" class flotilla. I don't know why the "Y" was skipped, as there are some very suitable names. It's not like "X": HMS Xenodochium, HMS Xanthacroi....
Back in the 1990's, T.D. Manning wrote some pieces for Mariner's Mirror in which he discussed RN ship naming. He then collaborated with C.F. Walker on a book called, creatively enough, British Warship Names which discusses the naming process. Anyone genuinely interested in the subject should find a copy.
For those of you simply eager for fun names, go to Ships of the Royal Navy by Colledge. I believe the first volume has been revised recently. The first volume focuses on purpose-built warships, while the second deals with small craft and various others. (The division is not always consistent.) While I agree the RN usually generated some great names, it also gave us things like HMS Gay Bruiser, HMS Three Three Three, and the very merry X MAS.
Nelsol and Rodnol: this makes sense when you realize that Prestol, Fortol, Celerol, Francol, etc were all oilers in RN service at the time. There was actually a battle in which the Germans found themselves confused--Is that an oiler over there? Yeah...No! It's Nelson. No, I think it's an oiler. No, Nelson. Oiler! Nelson! Oiler...!
There have been five Audaciouses, plus an Audacieux. The most famous is the battleship that sank under embarrassing circumstances in WWI.



steveh11Matrix -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 2:16:43 AM)

'Wobbly Eight':
The Wobbly Eight
Familiar name for the eight battleships of the KING EDWARD VII class - 3rd Battle Squadron in the 1914-18 war. Unwieldy and unsteady, there were also sometimes known as the BEHEMOTHS (Job x1, 15-24). The ships were AFRICA (1905), BRITANNIA (1904), COMMONWEALTH (1903), KING EDWARD VII (1903) and ZEALANDIA (1904, ex NEW ZEALAND). (Dates in brackets are dates of launching).

From http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/4765.html

What that page doesn't show for some reason are HMS DOMINION, HMS HIBERNIA and HMS BRITTANIA, though I don't know why.

Steve.



bradfordkay -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 8:18:57 AM)

Battle of May Island: on 31 January, 1917, the Grand Fleet took to the seas from the Firth of Forth for an exercise. The 12th and 13th Submarine Flotillas sailed with the fleet as scouts. Due to an uncomfirmed u-boat sighting, speed was increased. As the 13th Flotilla was passing May Island, the K-13 had to swerve to avoid a couple of small patrol boats. Unfortunately, her rudder jammed and she was rammed by the K-22, leaving both subs dead in the water. The light cruiser Ithuriel (a Tolkein name?) and the rest of the 13th Flotilla turned back to help. However, the 12th FLotilla was proceeding at speed, unaware of hte disaster ahead. Their leader, the light cruiser Fearless rammed the K-17, which sank with all hands. In the confusion, the K-6 hit the k-4, leaving them both dead in the water. The K-7 managed to miss the K-6, but hit the unlucky K-4 which now sank, leaving only eight survivors. I know that over 100 men died that night, two subs sank and four were damaged, as well as the HMS Fearless.



TheGreek -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 9:02:18 AM)

Oilers have their funnel very close to the stern. "Nelson" and "Rodney" had such an odd profile and their funnel so far aft that some used the names "Nelsol" and "Rodnol" in memory of a class of oilers whose names all ended in "ol".

By the way, my favorite battleship losses are the "France", which hit a submerged rock and sank in 1922, and the Soviet "Novorossisk" (ex-Italian "Giulio Cesare") which was sunk by a German mine in 1955!!!



HMSWarspite -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 10:23:53 AM)

Spot on, between you.
For the Wobbly 8, they were the last pre-dreadnought class built sprcifically for RN. I have heard 2 versions for the name. The most likely is that they were very sensitive to small changes in sea or wind for some reason, and found it difficult to keep a straight course - they thus kept twitching to port and starboard instead of a dead straight course. All 8 in a line must have looked like a queue of drunks if this is the case!

The second, which is a slight variation is that they always progressed a few degrees off dead ahead, and so 'crabbed' slightly sideways through the water. In both cases, it is put down to detail design issues

Nelsol and Rodnol were semi-abusive nicknames referring to their ugliness, and likening the superstructure and funnel aft to a fleet oiler

May Island is correct, and a part (but not all) of the sorry history of the K class. The basic summing up of the design flaws of that class is 'too many d@mned holes'

OK, off topic (but then again, so was my las question): Who or what were the Forty Thieves. Clue - not a c20th question!



bradfordkay -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 10:46:17 AM)

Got me on that one... the forty officially acceptable ship's chandlers in Portsmouth?



HMSWarspite -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 10:53:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: bradfordkay

Got me on that one... the forty officially acceptable ship's chandlers in Portsmouth?


Nice try, but no!



steveh11Matrix -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 11:44:02 AM)

A class of 74 gun Line of Battle ships (3rd Rates) which were built to appallingly bad standards. IIRC one of them was portrayed in a Jack Aubrey/Stephen Maturin novel - The Ionian Mission?

Steve.



Tiornu -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 12:05:08 PM)

Ithuriel, a name taken from angelology and not used in the RN until the 20th Century.
The Wobbly Eight had a hull form that enhanced their maneuverability. They turned handily but, once in a turn, they preferred to stay in it. This quirk in straightening from a turn inspired the nickname. Their roll behavior was probably also more pronounced--they had the most stability of any design of their period, which could not have helped their gunnery at all--but this did not figure in the nickname.
Some Soviet sources will tell you quite emphatically that Novorissijsk was sunk by former members of Decima Mas who couldn't bear the indignity of the Italian ship in Soviet possession.



HMSWarspite -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 1:12:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: steveh11Matrix

A class of 74 gun Line of Battle ships (3rd Rates) which were built to appallingly bad standards. IIRC one of them was portrayed in a Jack Aubrey/Stephen Maturin novel - The Ionian Mission?

Steve.

Correct in essence. The Armada/Conquestadore/Vengeur, and later Collingwood design of 3rd rate 74. These are the largest class of sailing line of battle ships ever built (largest class of any 'battle' ships actually - as distinct from smaller ships). The origin of the derogatory nickname is unclear: whilst some may have been poorly built and hence justify the name, it wasn't used until long after the first were built, and the last one out of commission lasted until the 1870's, albeit converted to steam. I suspect that they might have been a little uninspired rather than as bad as legend. The RN was not afraid to take bad ships out of service.

OTT I know, but here they all are {name(launch date, out of service date, cause)
Armada (1810, 1863 sold)
Cressy(sic) (1810, 1832 broken up)
Vigo (1810, 1827 hulk)
Vengeur (1810, 1824 hulk)
Ajax (1809, 1847 converts to steam, 1864 BU)
Conquestadore (1810,1831 razee, 1856 hulk)
Poictiers (sic) (1809, 1857 BU)
Berwick (1809, 1821 BU)
Egmont (1810, 1863 hulk)
Clarence (1812, 1828 BU)
Edinburgh (1811, 1852 steam, 1866 sold)
America (1810, 1835 razee, 1864 hulk)
Scarborough (1812, 1836 sold)
Asia (1811, 1828 razee, 1858 hulk)
Mulgrave (1812, 1836 hulk)
Anson (1812, 1831 hulk)
Gloucester (1812, 1832 razee, 1861 hulk)
Rodney (1809, 1836 sold)
Hogue (1811, 1848 steam, 1865 BU)
Dublin (1812, 1826 razee, 1846 laid up, 1885 sold)
Barham (1811, 1826 razee, 1840 BU)
Benbow (1813, 1848 hulk)
Stirling Castle (1811, 1839 hulk)
Vindictive (1813, 1833 razee, 1862 hulk)
Blenheim (1813, 1847 steam, 1858 hulk)
Duncan (1811, 1826 hulk)
Rippon (1812, 1821 BU)
Medway (1812, 1847 hulk)
Cornwall (1812, 1830 razee, 1859 hulk)
Pembroke (1812, 1855 steam, 1873 hulk)
Indus (1812, 1842 hulk)
Redoutable (1815, 1841 BU)
Devonshire (1812, 1849 hulk)
Defence (1815, 1848 hulk)
Hercules (1815, 1838 troopship, 1853? hulk)
Agincourt (1817, 1848? hulk)
Pitt (1816, 1853 hulk)
Wellington (1816, 1848 hulk)
Russell (1822, 1855 steam, 1865 BU)
Cornwallis (1813, 1855 steam, 1865 hulk)
Wellesley (1815, 1862 hulk)
Carnatic (1823, 1860 hulk)
[Sailing Navy List, David Lyon, Conway, ISBN 0-85177-615-5]
(43 in all, mostly built in 1809- 1815). I put them all in, because ir relates to the names discussion, and also it suddenly struck me how Britain in 1800 relates to US in 1942. The RN had more 74's built OF ONE CLASS in 3 years than most of the other navies had in total!) One of these days I must do a database of this book and plot a few stats like numbers of ships launched of each type! Other intesesting point - for a class this big, it is really quite interesting that apparently none were lost.



DBS -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 1:54:42 PM)

quote:

The Juju question is interesting. Some names seem to be immune. Fro example HMS Invincible blew up with Hood on board at Jutland but HMS
Invinicible did fine in the Falklands in 1982.


The RN has never had a problem with continuing names for ships lost honourably in action - exactly same as USN with, say, the Lexington, etc - but will not reuse a name tainted by "unnecessary" surrender or similar dishonourable conduct. The famous example (indeed almost the only one) is that of the submarine HMS Seal which surrendered to a German seaplane after suffering damage that prevented her submerging. And I think it unlikely Bounty has ever been considered seriously since that little incident in the southern oceans...

The best RN name ever is HMS Zubian. During WW1, two Tribal-class destroyers, Zulu and Nubian, suffered near fatal damage from torpedo and mine in the Dover Straits. Rather than scrap both, the intact forward third of Zulu was transplanted onto the intact stern two-thirds of Nubian and returned to service as Zubian.



DBS -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 2:03:56 PM)

As regards Rodney and Hood...

I had the privilege once of working with a retired professor who had served as a Midshipman aboard Rodney c1940. Rodney and Hood enjoyed a fine rivalry at Scapa, since one (Rodney) boasted of being the most powerful ship in the fleet (obviously joint with Nelson) in terms of firepower, while Hood claimed to be the most powerful in terms of horsepower and sheer good looks, etc. One of Rodney's stokers had been caught in an unnatural act with a sheep ashore at Scapa, so Hood's company ever-thereafter greeted Rodney with massed bleating. In return, Rodney always used to throw inedible potatoes at Hood, but Mike could sadly not recall why.



Belisarius -> RE: Royal Navy Ship names (8/20/2004 2:45:16 PM)

Another note; at least back in the 18th and 19th century, the RN usually kept the foreign names of captured ships, but ofcourse with the "HMS" added. That way the enemy always knew what ships had been caught, and the Admirality thought it sent an appropriate message to the enemy.

(I guess you could always, like today, distinguish one ship from another by appearance but still...you get the point)



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