Implementing True Odds in CWIF

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Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 4:45:35 AM

meyerg

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Joined: 11/14/2003
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It might be interesting to implement true odds in CWIF. For example, a 70-20 attack would normally be a 3-1 attack. If you are calculating true odds you would give the attacker a 10/20 (they are 10 factors over a 3-1 attack) or 50% chance of getting a 4-1 attack.
Some of the "gaming" part of Wif was optimizing use of resources to take advantage of the odds table. I loved flying 3 factors of Tac air into a 12-4 attack to turn a perfect 3-1 into less than a 2-1. The attacker loved to "factor fiddle" to maximize the use of his units to get an exact attack.
Anyway, "true odds" would be easy to implement using a computer and MAY be an improvement over the traditional odds table. It would also minimize factor fiddling, as committing maximum resources to an attack would be useful. Finally, the one factor of air that flew into a 60-20 attack would still leave you a 2.95-1 attack instead of a 2-1 and would encourage using fighters with small tac factors as fighters (in the above example he would have the same impact as 10 Tac factors without true odds).
Some WiFFers I played with used a calculator and percentile dice to get true odds, but I am sure this would be even more seamless on a computer.
Just my thoughts.
Greg

Post #: 1

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 7:54:23 AM

Mziln

Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
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Your version of "True Odds" is interesting but should be call "Enhanced Attacks". I say this because it only enhances the possability of better odds with less units.

Say I fly a ground strike which fails but lets me see the defending units strengths. I now get forced into using 71 attack factors (due to unit strengths) to attack 20 defending factors. If I get lucky that one point is now just as good as 20 points.

How do you purpose to handle fractions?

Example: .5/20 or put another way 5/200

Don't get me wrong I'm not saying this is a bad idea. It is an interesting concept.

(in reply to meyerg)

Post #: 2

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 1:07:00 PM

Froonp

Posts: 7995
Joined: 10/21/2003
From: Marseilles, France
Status: offline

Hello,

My opinion is that MWiF should be as faithfull as WiF FE as this is possible, and as such, it should at first implement the RAW Fractional odds optional rule (11.16.5 Option 41).

And when those rules are written in the game (which already is for this one if Matrix is building upon Chris Marinacci's version), Matrix can also add New *Optional* rules adapted to the Computer version, and this is IMHO a good idea for a new rule for a computer version. It is simply an extension of the Fractional Odds rule, and the Fractional Odd Modifiers as described at 11.16.6 on the 2d10 table.

Those New Computer Rules should be optional with the option to toble them off & on.

Cheers

< Message edited by Froonp -- 8/19/2004 12:08:33 PM >

(in reply to Mziln)

Post #: 3

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 5:42:33 PM

Mziln

Posts: 1107
Joined: 2/9/2004
From: Tulsa Oklahoma
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

(1) My opinion is that MWiF should be as faithfull as WiF FE as this is possible, and as such, it should at first implement the RAW Fractional odds optional rule (11.16.5 Option 41).

(2) Those New Computer Rules should be optional with the option to toble them off & on.

(1) So fractions like .5/20 are dropped since fractional odds are rounded in favor of the defender. I agree and feel this is a well planned optional rule.

(2) Since my gaming style is...

"Cool, lets set it up and turn everything on! We can read the rules later when we need to (isn't that why programmers gave us a search function?)."

This is another option I wasn't aware of or had forgotten. I agree it would make a good optional rule.

Option 41 (RaW-7M and CWiF v0.7.71 Final Rules): (Fractional odds) Round to a whole number in favour of the defender, then work out how far to the next odds ratio you are. Round this in favour of the defender to the next 10%. Roll a die just before rolling the combat die (you could roll it with the combat die if you want), to see if you find the result on the lower odds or the higher odds. If you roll the percentage or less, you resolve it on the next higher odds, otherwise on the lower odds.

< Message edited by Mziln -- 8/19/2004 3:44:52 PM >

(in reply to Froonp)

Post #: 4

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 7:00:53 PM

Chaplain

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Joined: 8/21/2003
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I would not like to see this implemented. It would detract from the "gamemanship" of WiF, which (IMO) is one of its charms. Elegant odds-work is half the fun.

(in reply to Mziln)

Post #: 5

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/19/2004 11:37:17 PM

Greyshaft

Posts: 2252
Joined: 10/27/2003
From: Sydney, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chaplain
I would not like to see this implemented. It would detract from the "gamemanship" of WiF, which (IMO) is one of its charms. Elegant odds-work is half the fun.

IMHO "elegant odds-work" is a pain in the rear-end! I want to fight with Panzers, not calculators. It seems much more realistic that every factor I throw into a battle should make my chance of victory marginally greater rather than struggling to get up to a theoretical plateau of 3:1 or 4:1 where suddenly life is much easier.

However, as previously noted, it should be easy to implement as an optional rule. One mans meat...

_____________________________

/Greyshaft

(in reply to Chaplain)

Post #: 6

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/23/2004 5:58:49 PM

Redmond Barry

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Joined: 8/22/2004
Status: offline

This is imho one of the areas where a computer can improve the game. I think it would be great to have some kind of dynamic odds calculation somewhere on the screen, while designating units for attack on a given hex. Fx. saying 23,6% chance of */2B, 34,2% chance of */1B, etc. and changing "on the fly" while you're deciding which units to participate in an attack.
This would of course mean scrapping the odds tables as we know them, and replacing them with formulas for calculating "true odds".
It should of course just be an optional rule, but imho it would be very nice to have the so called "elegant odds work" removed. For me its simple not a part of the fun. I agree with Grayshafts opinion on this.

As Mziln noted though, it enhancess your chance of a good result when attacking, which probably will skew the game balance somehow. This could ofcourse be fixed by adjusting your chance of a good result slightly down when attacking, i am however not really sure about how much.

(in reply to Greyshaft)

Post #: 7

RE: Implementing True Odds in CWIF - 8/25/2004 2:00:46 AM

Mziln

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From: Tulsa Oklahoma
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Just to let you know Option 41 (Fractional rules) is an option in v0.7.71.

(in reply to meyerg)

Post #: 8

Fractional Odds in CWIF (I called it true odds) - 8/28/2004 5:26:13 AM

meyerg

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Joined: 11/14/2003
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I think the computer does not have to do any rounding (the rule as written rounds to closest 10% increment). In my opinion, this is the best implementation and eliminates what I used to call "factor fiddling" (the quest to get to the next higher odds table). The game will play faster and the fighters will be used as fighters. I do not care if this feature can be turned off (like I mentioned before, flying a 5 factor TAC into a 24-8 battle is a good feeling).
Greg

(in reply to Mziln)

Post #: 9