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- 2/14/2002 9:24:00 AM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline 		I don't know who put forth the idea that ANY weapon wouldn't be used against infantry. You kill the other guy with anything you have is the way it has always been in warfare - and it is rather likely that will be the case for a long, long time to come. As said, no, average grunts wouldn't be toting a Browning 50 around, that's why the heavy weapons company in the US infantry battalion TO&E. But I don't remember sayng he would. So far as 50 cal equipped jeeps go in the game, its shoot and scoot. Strictly. The enemy find you real quick and you are only slightly less vulnerable than a sitting duck. Use'em cautiously , they will last a fairly long time. I"ve pretty much dropped that sort of recon, though, in favor of armored cars. They tend to have a somewhat higher battlefield survival rate than jeeps and scout cars. Bing

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"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 31
- 2/14/2002 10:27:00 AM   
Mojo

 

Posts: 915
Joined: 2/6/2002
From: Portland, Oregon USA
Status: offline 		Truckeye, I seem to remember reading that at one time it was considered "unfair" to use a 50 cal against infantry. I can't find a source for that though. There is a clause in the Hague Conventions about the use of weapons that cause "unnecessary suffering" whatever that means. While searching I did notice that in 1899 there was a moratorium on the dropping of bombs and similar devices from balloons


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If something's not working you might want to tunk it a dite.
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(in reply to mao)
Post #: 32
- 2/14/2002 11:01:00 AM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		bing, it was early on this thread. i once was told a .50 could only be used to defeat body armor like canteens, belt buckles, and helmets. but that seems farcical as well. if there is truely a rule in warfare about it, seems that would still violate the spirit of the law. anyway, i was trained in the army to use the Ma-duece against anyone trying to kill me.

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In the Last days its said the Lion will lay down with the Lamb. Even on that day, I would want to be the Lion. Ben Gurion

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 33
- 2/14/2002 11:19:00 PM   
Jeff_Ewing

 

Posts: 45
Joined: 7/16/2001
From: Staten Island, NY, wargame captial of the US
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Truckeye:
ok, kinda off topic, but my 2 cents. i served as a US Army officer and was told several times that the .50 cal being against the rules to use against infantry was a myth. can anyone quote a Field Manual or treaty that says it cant be used?
No, they cannot, because it's a ridiculous, though amazingly persistent, fable. I wish I knew how this got started. I suspect it's a bit of black humor. The fact of the matter is, that while the weapon is supposed to be used against vehicles and materiel, that's more in the way of a money-saving tip rather than international law. Usually, people will tell you it's against the Geneva Conventions. This is entirely untrue, and can easily be checked by actually *reading* the GC at http://www.icrc.org. It may be that people are thinking of the Hague Conventions of 1900, which ban weapons like explosive bullets, dum-dums and the like. But the .50 does not fall into this category. It's my personal jihad to extirpate this bit of misinformation. Jeff

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Post #: 34
- 2/14/2002 11:31:00 PM   
Bing

 

Posts: 1366
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: Gaylord, MI, USA
Status: offline 		Jeff - Thank you. The historians among us will appreciate your efforts. As to the Hague Conventons, I suspect as I think you do that almost no one who talks about them has actually read them - or understands the background. They were created in a very different world, the one that existed prior to the turn of the 20th century. Per Breaker Morant, from the movie of the same name, "This is a new war ... for a new century." Another problem with the Hague Conventions business is it would be difficult to find any nation that did any real fighting during WW2 that "honored" it in any way. War is about killing, we know that. You kill the other guy before he kills you. You do it any way you can. Poison gas wasn't used in WW2 for several reasons, none of them so far as I know having anything to do with a "humane" approach to war fighting. The last idea is kind of funny, in a sarcastic way. Bing

_____________________________

"For Those That Fought For It, Freedom Has a Taste And A Meaning The Protected Will Never Know. " -
From the 101st Airborne Division Association Website

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 35
- 2/15/2002 10:55:00 AM   
Lost Lieutenant

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		And remember - it is ILLEGAL by the rules of war to engage personnel with the Ma-deuce. However, engaging their equipment is permissible.

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The Lost Lieutenant
"You can't spell 'lost' without 'LT'"

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 36
- 2/15/2002 11:25:00 AM   
Truckeye

 

Posts: 141
Joined: 6/11/2001
From: Columbus, Ohio
Status: offline 		Lost, i once again challenge you to find this "rule of warfare" in a FM-anything or a link to any treaty or convention. above, jeff posted a link to the geneva convention where it does NOT list that as a "rule" of war. it is a very popular myth. if you can provide evidence, i will humbly apologise and promote you to lost 1LT!

_____________________________

In the Last days its said the Lion will lay down with the Lamb. Even on that day, I would want to be the Lion. Ben Gurion

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 37
- 2/15/2002 3:14:00 PM   
Lost Lieutenant

 

Posts: 32
Joined: 1/21/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline 		D'oh! I only read the first page and it seems I've been ambushed by the other half of the thread. I'll read more thoroughly next time! (But just had to throw in the anecdote all my buddies love to quote - it's classic military humor.) But seriously, you're probably right. My unit uses the M2 *prolifically* vs anything that moves, be it crunchies or vehicles. However, I've found that one thing they aren't too effective against is the front glacis of M1A1's though - at least in the MILES game . Sure does make that TC keep his head down, though.

_____________________________

The Lost Lieutenant
"You can't spell 'lost' without 'LT'"

(in reply to mao)
Post #: 38
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