Tankerace
Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LTCMTS
Tankerace and I have had this discussion before. By 1930, the RN would have had Argus, Eagle, Hermes, Furious, Glorious and Courageous, if not Vindictive as carriers. During the early thirties, the RN operated the Furious, Courageous and Glorious as a carrier task force in the Med. 2) The USN wanted carriers so bad, they were already planning in 1920 on cancelling the Ranger (CC4) and using the material for a fleet CV. The General Board wanted four carriers authorized and funds appropriated for FY20, and when that didn't happen, they turned to converting the "Lexingtons" even before the Washington Treaty. If the USN got it way, and the international scene had forced Congress to appropriate greater sums for completing the 1916 Program, they would have wanted at least 4 fleet carriers (not Langley types but Lexington size) in service by 1926. None of the 1916 program, the IJN 8-8-8 or the RN's G3 and N3 would have been completed before 1922, so to get the "South Dakotas", the "Lexingtons", the "Tosas" and the "Amagis" into the picture, the scenario couldn't start before 1929.
There was a good sized movement for carriers by the end of World War I. British success with the Furious at raiding the Dutch coastline, and the effectiveness of using scout planes to find the battle line (such as at Jutland from the seaplane carrier Engadine) proved that. However, In the US the carrier was regarded as an expensive experiement, thanks mainly to a general anti-war sentiment and the love of the battleship. To quote one pilot after the results of the 1922 treaty was something on the lines of: "Most of our battleships are gone. More capital ships sunk with a pen and paper than have ever been sunk in wartime. But, we still have the Langley. They didn't think the Langley was worth sinking."
While it is fascinating to think of what happened, the fact is that by the signing of the treaty in 1922, carriers were seen as scouts. The British had Argus and Furious, with Eagle and Hermes building. The Japanese had the Hosho with Shokaku building, and the US had the Langley.
While the US wanted to convert some Lexingtons, given the pattern of building and funding in the '20s, it is quite probably that none would have been converted. THe same can be said of the Japanese. Building of carriers was seen as a way to supplement the use of the battleship, and to make use of the battleship and battlecruiser hulls that would now otherwise be scrapped.
The War Plan Orange mod only changes one main historical detail, the Washington treaty. None of the "never weres" will be seen in the 1922-1926 scenario. In the '26-30 scenario, that is when they come to play. By 1928, all 6 Lexingtons would have been in service. In the Japanese side, they weren't constructing any carriers until the 1930's. The British, as they can keep their capital ships, will keep Courageous and Glorios in their large light cruiser roles.
As to the never-were design service dates in the mod, Tosa appears in 1923-1924 for the Japanese. Having already been launched in 1922, her completion would have only required no more than another year. Being 70 some percent complete, the US gets the Colorado class Washington in 1923. In 1926, the first of the never were designs come in, with the Kaga joining her sister, plus Amagi, and the US receives the South Dakota and the Lexington. The rest will arrive at about 1 or 2 per year.
No British never were designs, with the exception of the 3 follow on Admiral class BCs, are included. I made this decision because given Britain's financial situation, it would be extremely doubtful if they would have been completed in the first place. 3 additional Hoods, for 6 designs never laid down is a better design decision.
This gives each side a nice balance of carriers, 2 for Japan, with the option to convert 2 pre dreadnoughts to CVLs, 1 for the US with the option to convert 3 ACRs into CVLs, and the British with 2 carriers (Eagle and Hermes won't be included in the database). As to right now, only 1 British carrier will definately make an appearance, so if no conversions are done it will be a 2-2 tie.
The truth is that the naval mentality of the 1920's was still a battleship one. The Washington Treaty began the forced transition to carriers, but it is quite probable that if it had never been signed, then the battleship Admirals would have still been firmly in power, especially with their new playtoys.
In addition, as mentioned in my Plan Orange updates, early carrier aircraft are extremely short ranged. While they are good for work in the North Sea and in Europe, their relative short range (300-350 miles) makes them all but ineffective in the Pacific anyway. The greater use of aircraft and carriers will be as scouts, much as how the Langley (And indeed the Furious and Argus) were intended. No carrier based plane in the WPO mod will exceed the 500 mile range, so for operational use you get maybe 3 hexes. 4 at the most.
_____________________________
Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med
Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.
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