Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John

I don't understand how you can disagree with the analysis by the designers on the effort required for the scenario design was not worth it. What is the basis for this conclusion? Extensive polling of the target audience? Extensive scenario design and play testing experience? Significant design experience on similar products?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

All the explanations in the world wont change that for me - especially that the primary given motive from SSG for not doing one was that the effort required was not worth it. Something I fundamentally disagree with.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG


Since, as quoted above, you fundamentally think the effort is worth it, I look forward to the end product.

Gregor

quote:

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy


Meanwhile, should he go ahead and send you his address so you can forward a percentage of royalties made from game sales?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
Of course, I mean paying for user created scenarios is an industry wide practice, right? And once this vital, extra scenario has ben created we'll have bucketloads of surplus cash, even after paying for our Ferraris.

Gregor

quote:

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
Of course, I mean paying for user created scenarios is an industry wide practice, right? And once this vital, extra scenario has ben created we'll have bucketloads of surplus cash, even after paying for our Ferraris.

Gregor

The point is that he doesn't believe BiN to be a complete product without a full scenario. Telling him to make the scenario himself is completely absurd and does nothing to disprove his point or solve any problems.

These guys are giving you precise feedback on why they are or aren't purchasing your product. You can either embrace that and filter it into useful information for your next project or lash out at customers (potential or current) who are apparently barely keeping you in the business of making games.

Where did your last comment come from? Doesn't seem to have anything to do with what I said. Maybe you're lumping me in with someone else?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
I did listen to DBeves and I clearly explained the rationale behind our thinking on the subject. He disagrees with our reasons, that's his right, just as we our entirely within our rights to stick by our original decision.

My explaining how easy it is for someone to create the scenario he wants is by no means absurd. As was pointed out before, it's probable that someone in the user community will do it, especially now they've been told that all the unit info is already in the Overlord scenario, which does make it pretty easy.

If DBeves has a problem with anything I said, I expect that I'll hear from him.

My remark to you was an admittedly flippant response to your remark that we should pay royalties for third party scenarios.

And while you're taking us to task for only just staying in business, ask yourself this. SSG has been in business since 1982. How many companies, or entire gaming empires, have sprung up, had their brief moment in the sun and then gone down to dusty death in that time. We must be doing something right, just to stay alive in the face of the industry casualty rate.


Gregor

P.S. Honesty compels me to say that EA started at around about the same time, and we're not quite as big as they are...

quote:

ORIGINAL: molotov_billy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gregor_SSG
I did listen to DBeves and I clearly explained the rationale behind our thinking on the subject. He disagrees with our reasons, that's his right, just as we our entirely within our rights to stick by our original decision.

My explaining how easy it is for someone to create the scenario he wants is by no means absurd. As was pointed out before, it's probable that someone in the user community will do it, especially now they've been told that all the unit info is already in the Overlord scenario, which does make it pretty easy.

If DBeves has a problem with anything I said, I expect that I'll hear from him.

My remark to you was an admittedly flippant response to your remark that we should pay royalties for third party scenarios.

And while you're taking us to task for only just staying in business, ask yourself this. SSG has been in business since 1982. How many companies, or entire gaming empires, have sprung up, had their brief moment in the sun and then gone down to dusty death in that time. We must be doing something right, just to stay alive in the face of the industry casualty rate.


Gregor

P.S. Honesty compels me to say that EA started at around about the same time, and we're not quite as big as they are...

I think if you had simply explained how to create such a scenario, there would be no problem. In fact, I think if the time spent arguing with customers was spent on creating a small tutorial for your map editor, BiN would be in a better place. The way it was said, however, was IMO unprofessional in that you claimed the solution to the problem was that users should finish your game. (The game being unfinished in the eyes of DBeves, that is.) Don't tell me that the goal of that post was to get people interested in making a scenario, as we both know there are better ways to do that. Your goal was to "win the argument."

Obviously his own goals are different than yours in that he wants to purchase a full game that is worth the price tag. He is not a game developer nor does he receive a profit for something he creates - therefore the assumption that "if you think its fundamentally worth it, why don't you do it?" is absurd unless you bring everything into the equation - including the rewards for the creation of something, i.e money.

Problem = Customer pays $60 for a product that is in his eyes not finished and not worth the price.
Developer's solution = tell the customer to finish the game himself.

How can you tell me that's a rational thing? That seems like a kick in the pants, to me.

As far as your company goes, that's fine. Your company's goals and your own life's aspirations are completely your own business. If you're happy with where you are, that's your own business - I'm merely repeating what has been said in other threads by SSG employees. I do think that in 20 years of game development however, you should have come to the understanding that some people will not like your product and arguing with a customer's opinion is never the solution. In my own experience, this type of feedback is extremely useful in that it tells us why customers are not buying the product. In my own business, if I was given a reason from each customer why they did not purchase a product, the business would be in a MUCH better place. That type of feedback is absolute gold and it's frustrating to me to see SSG discouraging it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John
But you haven't explained why it is necessary to spend so much time to design and playtest a monster scenario, a much tougher job than a 32 turn scenario, to make one disgruntled customer a little happier. It just seems that to get an extra $60 for a minimum of 10 x 72 hours of playtesting seems to be a ridiculous exchange.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

... you don't get what you don't ask for and I think the whole point of this forum is to do just that - people coming to this forum and asking for improvements to games and getting them happens all the time....I didn't get what I hoped for this time.

quote:

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