Rob322
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Joined: 8/16/2004
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quote:
ORIGINAL: MadmanRick
I seems to me that the lack of interest in wargames is a fairly complex problem. It isn't as simple as stating that RTS games or Nintendo have taken away their interest, although this is surely a truism. I think it also has to do with the fact that for anyone under the age of 30, Vietnam is ancient history not to mention the Second World War. Also keep in mind that with history revisionism, not as much emphasis is truly placed upon the Second World War nowadays. I mean I remember growing up and after studying WW2, I searched out every book I could find (particularly on the Pacific Theatre). You rarely find that type of interest anymore. The wargaming hobby is far from alone in this type of problem, scale modelling is also going through the exact same thing. That hobby also tends to blame its' woes on video games et al, but again I think the problem is much more complex.
For most of us, we read about the wars in school, then we came across the books and then later the great board games drew us in and we were hooked for life. Nowadays, you aren't as likely to spend a month or more learning about WW2, the books are there, but how many libraries can afford to have the selection that they had when we were young? I won't even start with the lack of great board games. I mean I love computer games, but nothing can replace having those maps/counters in front of you. I used to just look at all the different counters from my games (when I couldn't find an opponent) and dream of them (ok, so I'm a freak). But, mere sprites on a screen can't quite attract the way those cardboard and paper items could. I'll never forget the first time I saw SPI's War In The Pacific actually set up, I finally TRULY realized how huge the Pacific theatre really was! Before that I knew, but I didn't know. So anyway, that is my take on some of the problem and I am sure that I didn't touch on the complete issue.
Rick
Couldn't resist responding to this. It's not surprising, humans don't seem very good in general in dealing with complex systems or basically anything that's not directly in front of their nose. Throw in the element of time and it's all gone. The sad truth is, Americans are increasingly uneducated about ALL history, not merely military. This blind spot will likely cause us more problems in the future.
My feelings as to why the general gaming public doesn't seem to get off on games like WITP and what should be done about it are decidedly mixed. I mean, part of me is glad that most computer gamers out there aren't interested in this game. I believe that if there were a greater market for this, it would inevitably start the process of dumbing the game down. Turns would become 1 week or 2 weeks long at minimum, graphics would be enhanced but likely at the expense of deph of gameplay, and individual ships, planes, commanders, etc. would be subsumed into a generic spread. You could get through the whole war in a couple of weeks without killing your life. It would result in a cliff notes version of the game. Entertaining? Maybe. But not the game that I (and I sense many on here) want.
And to me that is inevitable. You would need to dumb it down for the masses. And don't blame DOOM. DOOM only gives the masses what they've always wanted. It's sad I suppose but that's the reality of our world. I was a board gamer in the 70s and 80s and was in a tight circle of dedicated gamers, who loved history and sci-fi and all of that. We wanted realism and dedication to the way things were. Risk and Battleship were good enough to play with your idiot cousin but just try breaking out Squad Leader when company comes over! Even then, we knew we were an extremely NARROW circle. We were those nerds in the library playing on the weekend to the jocks of the world who were always more amused by the surface elements of life. It's not like DOOM and other games like that came upon a literate and engaged culture on historical matters and transformed them into a gob of twitch and click drones. People back then were not all that interested in wargames, same as today. A family friend who ran a game shop confessed freely that it was always the other products, the models, the rockets, the mass market games, etc. the kept him in business, not wargames. If computer wargames had a better day in the past it was because I suspect that computers used to be the province of the hobbyist (growing up in the Silicon Valley I remember going to Homebrew Computer club meetings with my dad). The computer hobbyist was often quite similar to the true grognard wargamer, not exactly the most popular kid in school but smart, curious, and excited about their hobbies. Wargames and computers were a natural match. The graphics of course sucked, but a deep gameplay and a dedication to realism has typically been more important to the true grognard than anything else. They never made that much money since not that many people had a home computer in the 80s. When computers went mass market (to the great dismay of more than a few hobbyists who saw their joy being dumbed down for the masses as well) it was inevitable the gaming industry would too.
So I say let them have DOOM. It isn't that bad when you need mindless fun. And who caes if they don't like games like WITP? We just need to stick together to support our love. Trust me, we don't want the general public to get too turned on by all of this, or else it'll just get ruined for the rest of us. 
Cheers,
Rob 
< Message edited by Rob322 -- 10/24/2004 4:54:18 PM >
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