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RE: Can Japan Win???

 
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RE: Can Japan Win??? - 5/28/2004 3:53:56 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi
1. You cannot reach Hawaii on turn 1.
2. You'll need more then 2 div. There are more then 2 div on Hawaii and they are ready (will be more ready by the time you get there. There are 3 USN CV. (2 at sea in area your transports will be transiting and 1 on USA West Coast.
3. You can't sink all the combat ships at PH in 1 strike. If you stay for a 2nd or 3rd strike you might get involved in a surface battle. In any case you won't be able to sit there making port attacks with 2 enemy CV nearby so damaged USN ships can stay in port while the healthy ones come out to play.

4. When I said 1/3 of Japanese fleet I meant fleet not TF.
5. Japan needs resource and oil to begin arrving as soon as possible. There is no resource or oil at Hawaii. (there is a decent amount of fuel there but not enough supply to justify it as a supply source. Fuel does not turn the gears of Japanese heavy industry.

< Message edited by Mogami -- 5/28/2004 8:54:29 AM >

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 31
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 5/28/2004 4:50:55 PM   
Radzy

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 5/19/2004
From: Warsaw, Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mogami
5. Japan needs resource and oil to begin arrving as soon as possible. There is no resource or oil at Hawaii. (there is a decent amount of fuel there but not enough supply to justify it as a supply source. Fuel does not turn the gears of Japanese heavy industry.


I do have one additional question to Your information. Is it possible to score, let's say, a coincidential, critical hit on fuel, supply depots which can disable (destroy) plenty (all) of them in a single attack, like it happened few times during the war? I'm not talking about A-bomb strike or fire storm effect but regular attack (naval or aerial).

Regards,
Radzy

< Message edited by Radzy -- 5/28/2004 3:51:30 PM >

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Staun ma groon al nae be afraid
Thoughts awe hame tak awa ma fear
Sweat an bluid hide ma veil awe tears
Ains a year say a prayer faur me
Close yir een an remember me"
Sgt. MacKenzie

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 32
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 5/29/2004 12:34:05 AM   
Jonny_B


Posts: 299
Joined: 5/20/2004
From: Dunnellon, Florida
Status: offline

Yes, Japan can win the game.

Edit the dam game, since all games in the pacific war theater in 1941, are surrounded and control by the simple fact that the Japanese Navy lost the Midway Battle, only about six months into the war, the game is based on this fact.

What would have happen if the Japanese Navy did not lose the sea battle, and lost no CV’s and the American Navy lost all three of there CV’s, very real and within game limits.
I believe that the Japanese naval construction yards would have been used extremely different, production according to schedule and all there plans to build many different ships would have been taken forward, not stopped.

Still the Australians and New Zealanders, being cut off from America supplies, facing Japan alone, having the Japanese landing forces attacking them, would have responed and would have kick the Jap's butt’s badly, taking the war to them in New Guinea.

Hard to take on the Aussies and Kiwi’s on there own turf. . I know, my neighbor is a Kiwi and the neighborhood is…………?

< Message edited by Jonny_B -- 5/29/2004 3:36:54 PM >

(in reply to Radzy)
Post #: 33
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 5/30/2004 1:38:55 PM   
pauk


Posts: 4162
Joined: 10/21/2001
From: Zagreb,Croatia
Status: offline 		Since the moment i know that japanese player will be allowed to do (limited) changes in production, I can't wait to take IJ seat...

it will be very interesting to plan your production depends on strategy. What you gonna to do? expand your IJA production of IJN production? Will you pay more intention to air forces (new aircrafts) or to ships?
Of course, managing your military production should depend on the allied strategy. If your opponent plays defensive (waiting to get Essex and Hellcats, B-29....), Japanese player should switch production to Tojo and other aircrafts, and preserve veteran pilots for them (from AAR i saw that Tojo is best option for B-monsters). Of course, i have no doubts the Japanese player can't stop allied offensive, but i hope that with careful and wise planing military production coud prolonge the end of the war...
like i said...i just can't wait

(in reply to Jonny_B)
Post #: 34
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 2:53:12 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline 		So.. now we all know that PH can be taken.. but the cost was indeed quite high. But as WitP_Dude said, it could have been done with much lower losses.

(in reply to pauk)
Post #: 35
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 7:59:43 PM   
Hornblower


Posts: 1361
Joined: 9/10/2003
From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
Status: offline 		Its intriguing to me to, taking PH that is. But the Japanese, IMHO, would not only need to take Oahu, but most if not all the islands in the chain. Personally I would think that if historically they did take the islands that they would be almost in a worst position then they ended up with historically. If they took the islands, for all intents and purposes they would have pushed the USN back to the west coast. Who here really thinks that the American public not to mention ADM King would have allowed a “Germany first” stratigy to exist given that event? Torch wouldn’t have happened and no amount of prodding on Winston’s part would have gotten the US to commit more troops/ships beyond what was needed to keep the sea lanes to Briton open and troops to make sure it was safe from invasion. The massive stockpiling of troops and landing craft for the ETO wouldn’t have happened till Japan was dealt with.

(in reply to highblooded)
Post #: 36
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 8:22:48 PM   
String


Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hornblower

Its intriguing to me to, taking PH that is. But the Japanese, IMHO, would not only need to take Oahu, but most if not all the islands in the chain. Personally I would think that if historically they did take the islands that they would be almost in a worst position then they ended up with historically. If they took the islands, for all intents and purposes they would have pushed the USN back to the west coast. Who here really thinks that the American public not to mention ADM King would have allowed a “Germany first” stratigy to exist given that event? Torch wouldn’t have happened and no amount of prodding on Winston’s part would have gotten the US to commit more troops/ships beyond what was needed to keep the sea lanes to Briton open and troops to make sure it was safe from invasion. The massive stockpiling of troops and landing craft for the ETO wouldn’t have happened till Japan was dealt with.



well actually the best way to capture PH ingame would be by occupying all other bases first in the chain, base land based aircraft there and pound PH to dust..

(in reply to Hornblower)
Post #: 37
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 8:49:07 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		WitP_Dude made an apt demonstration of that tactic

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Post #: 38
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 11:47:25 PM   
ancient doctor

 

Posts: 152
Joined: 9/21/2004
Status: offline 		Is there any possibility to make the design team allow to Japs(especally)to be able to program what ships they want to build(others than those already laid)and do it?I am sure that if the war hasnt taken the cource it did Japs might have made different desicion on what to build of cource depending on their industry potential and its resources.So any thoughts?

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 39
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/19/2004 11:49:40 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I seriously doubt it. The whole shipbuilding scheme (fixed for the Allies since they get so much anyway) was deliberately designed to only allow a Japan player to do so much in order to represent the fact that, in real life, there wasn't much Japan could do to alter her shipbuilding program, other than to scrap expensive long-term projects like Shinano or No.111 in favor of smaller easier to build craft.

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(in reply to ancient doctor)
Post #: 40
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/20/2004 12:03:25 AM   
freeboy

 

Posts: 9088
Joined: 5/16/2004
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		perhaps since Japan was already allied with Germany/Italy in Tripartide pact, after attacking French indo China they attack British.. forcing us to decide on war or not????
then attack the fleet, remember we are talking either in a game .. or in historical non-reality

So, remember in the US eyes the JAps where so far inferior that US probably thought of war as a quick jaunt out to sea and crush them, imagine a huge bb involved midway in reverse in Feb of 42, us loses 3 cv and 6 bb and Jap now and a few fleet assets damaged.. in the long run jap still gets crushed by the huge us lead in steal/shipbuilding but in the short run makes life intersting?

Sorry no British first scenario has been formulated yet?? maybe my next big task after next summer...

< Message edited by freeboy -- 11/20/2004 6:04:46 AM >

(in reply to ctid98)
Post #: 41
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/20/2004 12:04:07 AM   
BlackVoid


Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline 		In Lemur's scen there are a few more choices, I think quite a few DDs as well.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 42
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/20/2004 12:06:00 AM   
maybee

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline 		How does it look? (The result of pounding PH from say Lahadina.)

IMO, for the Japs to win in game. They have to keep B29 out of range, that means Japs has to take Hawaii. Japs has about a year to complete that goal, because Allies don't have enough CV esort to reinforce PH, both in terms of LCUs and Air groups. That will give them enough time to level PH.

What would you predict the outcome of an invasion campagin in late 43, of (10+ Allies CVs + surface TF + most LCU available to Allies by that time) VS (KB + Hawaii bases + what ever LCUs the Jap the land and supply). I think it would be a stalemate at the end of the game.

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 43
RE: Can Japan Win??? - 11/20/2004 12:11:11 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I dont think anyone has been able to inexpensively take Oahu. Anything that causes attrition to Japan's fleet and airforce will inevitably speed up the moment of retribution IMO. Losing Oahu is no doubt, a pain to the US but not life threatening and as Mogami once said, the first obj of the resurgent US will be.....Oahu.

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Post #: 44
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