Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Another niche: the Med

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Another niche: the Med Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Another niche: the Med - 12/1/2004 8:20:55 PM   
No New Messages
MengCiao
Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
If 2by3 is going to turn the code for WitP over to amateurs, why don't we amateurs try to build the WWII Med game? No use doing the whole war, but smaller scenarios running at about 1-4 months ought to work (eg, Torch, Pedestal...Taranto Raid, Crete, surrender of the Italian Fleet -- complete with TV-guided jerry smart bombs!!! etc.).

_____________________________

The corpus of a thousand battles rises from the flood.
Post #: 1
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 2:28:26 AM   
No New Messages
fbastos
Matrix Hero



Posts: 827
Joined: 8/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

If 2by3 is going to turn the code for WitP over to amateurs


That is a huge (and very unlikely) if...

Perhaps some programmer that worked before with 2by3 and has their confidence might do it, though... who knows?

F.

< Message edited by fbastos -- 12/2/2004 12:28:40 AM >


_____________________________

I'm running out of jokes...


(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 2
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 4:00:24 AM   
No New Messages
pasternakski
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
If someone is going to do WWII in the Mediterranean with emphasis on the naval and air aspects, treating it (as UV does) as a conflict over control of vital bases, I need the whole campaign from Taranto (or thereabouts) to Italy's surrender (or thereabouts).

I think that the main ground conflict up in Europe can be abstracted out of the design. I also think that the fluid war in the desert can be simulated within the terms of the basic UV engine. Ten or 15 mile hexes are an intriguing possibility that would do a lot to put you inside the texture of this theater of war while keeping you at objective enough distance to give you a feeling of strategic command. Your options would always be limited by events in other theaters (including the Pacific, which would be a constant drain on your force allotments), so that flexibility in planning and attention to accomplishing only that of which you are capable would be at a premium.

Man oh man, give me Cape Matapan ... I'm down on me luck, just give me Tobruk ... We will never falter as long as we hold Gibraltar ... I'm a-callin' a halta after we take-a Malta.

(in reply to fbastos)
Post #: 3
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 4:38:14 AM   
No New Messages
Tankerace
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
Well, if we (the community) can edit the map (as has been talked about) and decide to do a Mediterranian mod, I'll do the ship graphics for it.

Operation Herkules, that'd be a hoot.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 4
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 4:40:01 AM   
No New Messages
33Vyper
Matrix Hero



Posts: 542
Joined: 10/20/2004
From: New Westminster BC
Status: offline
I could finally get my Bismarck?

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 5
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 5:11:36 AM   
No New Messages
pasternakski
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, if we (the community) can edit the map (as has been talked about) and decide to do a Mediterranian mod, I'll do the ship graphics for it.

Operation Herkules, that'd be a hoot.


I'm up for the OOB and scenario work...

Give me your poor, your tired, your obsolete UV code, yearning to breathe free...

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 6
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 5:16:12 AM   
No New Messages
Tankerace
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
So, that's OOB, scenario, and graphics. We need a couple of guys to do some research, and I think we are half way there.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 7
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 6:33:35 AM   
No New Messages
MadmanRick
Matrix Hero



Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, if we (the community) can edit the map (as has been talked about) and decide to do a Mediterranian mod, I'll do the ship graphics for it.

Operation Herkules, that'd be a hoot.


Having worked on an aborted Midway mod for UV, I can tell you the biggest obstacle will be the map and its programming. I mean since the map is simply a really big .gif or .jpg file (forget which offhand), it would be fairly easy to replace the existing map. However, I think (although I could be mistaken) that the bases are coded into the game, so that would be the real stumbling block.

Rick

_____________________________


"Our lives begin to end the moment we become silent about things that matter". Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 8
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 6:37:12 AM   
No New Messages
pasternakski
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace
I think we are half way there.

I'm sure there are a lot of people who think we're "halfway there," all right.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 9
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 6:41:58 AM   
No New Messages
Tankerace
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
It is a cross section of several bmps. You can edit the bases, those are in the OOB. That is no problem. What IS coded into the game (I believe) is what is and is not a land or water hex. So, in game we think we are sailing to malta, and the game thinks we plowed into the tip of Australia.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 10
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 7:57:37 AM   
No New Messages
Bodhi
Matrix Elite Guard



Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
No, the type of hex and hex edges aren't coded into the game. It's all in the Pwhex.dat file. Don't know if the progam would accept any different sized map though.

_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 11
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 4:32:17 PM   
No New Messages
m10bob
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
Tankerace........That avatar of Wild Bill Kelso is a HOOT!,(and so appropriate for WITP)..

_____________________________




(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 12
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 4:52:18 PM   
No New Messages
sprior
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

So, that's OOB, scenario, and graphics. We need a couple of guys to do some research, and I think we are half way there.



I'll do the RN and RM (Royal Navy and Regia Marina, which also means Royal Navy, but the Italian one) OOB research!

< Message edited by sprior -- 12/3/2004 8:35:57 AM >


_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 13
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 9:51:05 PM   
No New Messages
BlackVoid
Matrix Hero



Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline
The map must be some kind of spreadsheet/database table that contains all the terrain. For the roads/rails is a different matter there are a dozen ways to implement them.

I do not think that the community would need the source code for this project, only the file formats are needed for the database files that cannot be edited with the editor.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 14
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 9:53:20 PM   
No New Messages
BlackVoid
Matrix Hero



Posts: 639
Joined: 10/17/2003
Status: offline
If the file formats are released to the public, the MED can be done, UNLESS there is important data that is harcoded in the program itself.

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 15
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 10:18:01 PM   
No New Messages
Tankerace
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

Tankerace........That avatar of Wild Bill Kelso is a HOOT!,(and so appropriate for WITP)..


Thanks a lot bob. I found the poster at IMDB.com, and I said.... hmmmm.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 16
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 11:04:33 PM   
No New Messages
Bodhi
Matrix Elite Guard



Posts: 1267
Joined: 8/26/2003
From: Japan
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BlackVoid

The map must be some kind of spreadsheet/database table that contains all the terrain. For the roads/rails is a different matter there are a dozen ways to implement them.



As I said above, all this map info, including road/rail, is in the pwhex.dat file. It's not difficult to work out its structure.

< Message edited by Bodhi -- 12/3/2004 5:04:55 AM >


_____________________________

Bodhi

(in reply to BlackVoid)
Post #: 17
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 11:05:55 PM   
No New Messages
Cap Mandrake
Battlefields! Beta Tester



Posts: 23184
Joined: 11/15/2002
From: Southern California
Status: offline
You boys need to talk to Andrew Brown...he seems to have the map files figured out..fi he can move around Johnston Atoll, then he could put Malta where he wanted as well.

http://www.matrixgames.com/default.asp?URL=http%3A//www.matrixgames.com/forums/default.asp

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 18
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/2/2004 11:30:01 PM   
No New Messages
m10bob
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
"Mare Nostrum" has been much neglected in the CPU wargame industry.I sure hope this becomes a reality.
BTW,"Mare Nostrum" was a board game from the seventies depicting this theatre,I suspect some of our older players may remember it,possibly one of James Dunnigans' games??

_____________________________




(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 19
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 1:34:48 AM   
No New Messages
Skyros
Matrix Elite Guard



Posts: 1570
Joined: 9/29/2000
From: Columbia SC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

"Mare Nostrum" has been much neglected in the CPU wargame industry.I sure hope this becomes a reality.
BTW,"Mare Nostrum" was a board game from the seventies depicting this theatre,I suspect some of our older players may remember it,possibly one of James Dunnigans' games??

I want to say it was a Jack Greene design but I could be wrong, maybe Simulations Canada?

Us old guys memories are slipping.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 20
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 7:23:01 AM   
No New Messages
Arsaces
Matrix Recruit


 

Posts: 39
Joined: 7/25/2004
Status: offline
A Med game would be marvelous. All those beautiful Regia Marina designs. One can dream...

(in reply to Cap Mandrake)
Post #: 21
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 7:28:26 AM   
No New Messages
MadmanRick
Matrix Hero



Posts: 579
Joined: 4/9/2004
From: New York City, U.S.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

Well, if we (the community) can edit the map (as has been talked about) and decide to do a Mediterranian mod, I'll do the ship graphics for it.

Operation Herkules, that'd be a hoot.


I'd be happy to do some oob work, either naval or air. I'd also be willing to work on scenarios!

Rick

_____________________________


"Our lives begin to end the moment we become silent about things that matter". Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 22
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 3:57:16 PM   
No New Messages
MengCiao
Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

"Mare Nostrum" has been much neglected in the CPU wargame industry.I sure hope this becomes a reality.
BTW,"Mare Nostrum" was a board game from the seventies depicting this theatre,I suspect some of our older players may remember it,possibly one of James Dunnigans' games??


I played it. It was bad. There have been some good Med-centric games and Conquest of the Aegean ought to be one of the best games yet.

The Whole Tunisia campaign makes a very good relatively self-contained game, at least in terms of the ground fighting and there's a lot of parachuting back and forth until well into the Italian Campaign.

I guess the UV scale would be much better for the Med. than the Witp scale.

_____________________________

The corpus of a thousand battles rises from the flood.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 23
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 6:19:07 PM   
No New Messages
CatLord
Matrix Veteran



Posts: 312
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: Lausanne, Switzerland
Status: offline
I have an old French wargame (called "Amirauté", dating back to 1979) and his supplement, about the Med theatre (called "Mare Nostrum"), which must have most of the ww2 ships characteristics.

There would be a lot of interesting what-if with the French fleet in such a game/mod.

I am going back to France in December, so I may try to find this old and dusty cardboard box back if anyone is interested....

Cat

_____________________________

Member of the Revolution Under Siege development team.

(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 24
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 6:45:26 PM   
No New Messages
MengCiao
Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatLord

I have an old French wargame (called "Amirauté", dating back to 1979) and his supplement, about the Med theatre (called "Mare Nostrum"), which must have most of the ww2 ships characteristics.

There would be a lot of interesting what-if with the French fleet in such a game/mod.

I am going back to France in December, so I may try to find this old and dusty cardboard box back if anyone is interested....

Cat


There are also minatures style boardgames (or table-top games anyway) that summarize the ships to some degree.

_____________________________

The corpus of a thousand battles rises from the flood.

(in reply to CatLord)
Post #: 25
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 7:26:18 PM   
No New Messages
Feinder
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline
And this is an advantage of (eventually) allowing open source to your player base. The players actually get things done faster than the devs. Not meant to be a slam on the devs. There are only so many, and they want to go home to their families when the day is done. Enter player development, and you've got somebody who doesn't mind spending an entire Saturday, then staying up until 3am designing a AAA gun on patrol boat.

Player devs are great. Problems -will- be solved. Doesn't matter how hard the task is. If you have a dedicated player base (and WitP certainly does, look at the number of mods we have already), there really is very little that you -can't- do (or fix).

One of the Cons tho is, the issue is "which is the master copy". You've now got 25 versions of a program, all with different fixes and OBs. It's certainly possible to have versions hosted at a site (say Spooky's). But when people want to play each other, you have to make sure you're running the same verions and mods (yes, it's already like that somewhat with Lemur's mod, it just means you're gonna get a LOT more versions if you open source).

Another wrinkle is, Matrix doesn't make any more money if they open source. Sure they can sell units, and make some body. The tap doesn't dry up completely. But you sell a lot less units (so you wait until sales are tapering off). Now anybody can host the game, and offer a dowload (legality not withstanding).

But I digress. Yes, given opportunity, players would probably much faster than you think, create a viabel Med Scenario, complete with new maps, OB, and probably even a "kick your a$$ five ways from Sunday", AI component also.

-F-

_____________________________

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me


(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 26
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 7:54:06 PM   
No New Messages
MengCiao
Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

If someone is going to do WWII in the Mediterranean with emphasis on the naval and air aspects, treating it (as UV does) as a conflict over control of vital bases, I need the whole campaign from Taranto (or thereabouts) to Italy's surrender (or thereabouts).

I think that the main ground conflict up in Europe can be abstracted out of the design. I also think that the fluid war in the desert can be simulated within the terms of the basic UV engine. Ten or 15 mile hexes are an intriguing possibility that would do a lot to put you inside the texture of this theater of war while keeping you at objective enough distance to give you a feeling of strategic command. Your options would always be limited by events in other theaters (including the Pacific, which would be a constant drain on your force allotments), so that flexibility in planning and attention to accomplishing only that of which you are capable would be at a premium.

Man oh man, give me Cape Matapan ... I'm down on me luck, just give me Tobruk ... We will never falter as long as we hold Gibraltar ... I'm a-callin' a halta after we take-a Malta.


Taranto to the Italian surrender? That might work. It might be better to start with several variations on the fate of the French Fleet...since the Little Kingdom might feel mighty peculair if the French Fleet either goes non-Vichy and sets up in North Africa or joins the Brits flat out.

Other possibilities are: France and Britain intervene in the Spanish Civil War or over Eithiopia.

I guess the Black Sea and the Red Sea can be left out...but you may need a snip of the Atlantic or even the Bay of Biscay.

_____________________________

The corpus of a thousand battles rises from the flood.

(in reply to pasternakski)
Post #: 27
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 10:33:25 PM   
No New Messages
sprior
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline
You would need to find a way of forcing the RN to tak epart in the madness that was the Greek and Crete campaigns too. You need to find very compelling reasons to force my destyoyers and cruisers under those Stukas!

_____________________________

"Grown ups are what's left when skool is finished."
"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
- Nigel Molesworth.



(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 28
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/3/2004 11:27:14 PM   
No New Messages
MengCiao
Matrix Trooper


 

Posts: 180
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

You would need to find a way of forcing the RN to tak epart in the madness that was the Greek and Crete campaigns too. You need to find very compelling reasons to force my destyoyers and cruisers under those Stukas!


Play the Ultra-long campaign and blow the Fascists out of the water in 1937 and you might avoid the Aegean difficulties that might otherwise (nay, as certain as the morning dew) arise or descend as the case may be.

_____________________________

The corpus of a thousand battles rises from the flood.

(in reply to sprior)
Post #: 29
RE: Another niche: the Med - 12/4/2004 12:10:17 AM   
No New Messages
pasternakski
Matrix Legion of Merit



Posts: 6565
Joined: 6/29/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MengCiao
I guess the UV scale would be much better for the Med. than the Witp scale.

And we could avoid all those BS bugs.

I think maybe 10-15 miles per hex???

(in reply to MengCiao)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Another niche: the Med Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.266