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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Class or nationality... Page: [1]
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Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 5:59:46 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		Would there be any way to be able to view ship nationality if not class when in the TF selection screen?...I know I am asking for a new feature but I don't have them all committed to memory. I try to keep nationalities together in TF and I end up making mucho notes. I use endurance as a kind of starting point but that doesn't work unless the ship is tanked up before it is disbanded.

< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 1/5/2005 10:00:46 PM >

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army

Post #: 1
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 10:12:53 AM   
viking42


Posts: 91
Joined: 7/20/2004
From: Europe
Status: offline 		i agree, it's really hard to try to keep national fleets together

_____________________________

IJN Destroyers Fanboy (as soon as i will have uploaded a picture...)

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 2
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 12:34:47 PM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline 		Havent you heard, this game has built in educational value. Before the end of your first full campaign you are guaranteed to be intimately familiar with every class of ship and every ship in that class. If you're really sharp, you can even pick up on what was bolted on when in which refit [quoth the person who cant tell the difference between an R-class BB and a 4-stack DD].

Serriously, however, I realize that the question is coming up because of the Brit withdrawal. I honestly do not understand the commotion. There arn't that many UK ships. Its a good bet that at least 1 out of 3 DDs in the Indian ocean with be Brit, just close your eyes and pick one. Having said that, I have not the foggiest of which class is older or which ones are better to get rid of. Might be a good question to ask the smart people.

Still, this is a weak reason for a good idea. I agree completely that the TF select screen needs a filter. Not because of the Tommies but because building a TF from SF or PH later in the war is something like looking for a needle in a stack of needles. There are waaay too many ships and I'm not interested in most of them at most points it time. Would be great if I could filter them out.

BTW....does keeping a TF in the same nationality range give you a benefit of some sort?
If it does its the first I've heard of it.

< Message edited by Onime No Kyo -- 1/6/2005 10:35:51 AM >

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to viking42)
Post #: 3
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 2:43:45 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		It doesn't give any benefit gamewise to keep nationalities together (though it should IMHO), I just like to be historical. US Navy didn't combine TFs much with other nationalities. Different nationalities had different ways of doing things. In alot of cases, it would have produced clashes amongst the commanders (something that is not good in combat).

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 4
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 3:03:56 PM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Here's your Brit DD's:

Algonquin
Armada
Arrow
Barfluer
Camperdown
Carysfort
Cassandra
Decoy
Electra
Encounter
Eskimo
Express
Fortune
Foxhound
Grenville
Griffin
Hogue
Hotspur
Inconstant
Isis
Jupiter
Kempenfelt
Myngs
Nubian
Pakenham
Paladin
Panther
Pathfinder
Penn
Petard
Quadrant
Quality
Queensborough
Quilliam
Racehorse
Rapid
Redoubt
Relentless
Rocket
Roebuck
Rotherham
Saumarez
Scout
Stronghold
Tartar
Teazer
Tenacious
Tenedos
Termagant
Terpsichore
Thanet
Thracian
Trafalgar
Troubridge
Tumult
Tuscan
Tyrian
Ulster
Ulysses
Undaunted
Undine
Urania
Urchin
Ursa
Venus
Verulam
Vigilant
Virago
Volage
Wager
Wakeful
Wessex
Whelp
Whirlwind
Wizard
Wrangler
Zambesi
Zealous
Zebra
Zenith
Zephyr
Zest
Zodiac

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 5
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 3:30:16 PM   
kayjay


Posts: 133
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: JS J4 Pentagon
Status: offline 		By Dec 42 it doesnt matter anymore - all Brit DDs gone even if you worked at preserving them. From then on its a 300 pp tax every month you get a w/d unitil more show up late 43.

Quite frankly no reason not to allow US DD to substitute.

_____________________________

Kevin Kelley

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 6
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 4:19:49 PM   
WhoCares


Posts: 653
Joined: 7/6/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Would there be any way to be able to view ship ... class when in the TF selection screen?...I know I am asking for a new feature ...


Actually no, you don't. It is already there in the TF generation screen. Not nationality but class (incl. guns, AA and ASW rating) is shown when you right-click on a ship in the upper window.




Attachment (1)

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 7
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 4:24:01 PM   
tanker4145

 

Posts: 190
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I'd like to be able to filter by ship class...DD, CA/CL, AK/AP, etc.

(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 8
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/6/2005 11:48:32 PM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WhoCares

quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

Would there be any way to be able to view ship ... class when in the TF selection screen?...I know I am asking for a new feature ...


Actually no, you don't. It is already there in the TF generation screen. Not nationality but class (incl. guns, AA and ASW rating) is shown when you right-click on a ship in the upper window.




right click?...really?...I never tried a right click in the game. everything is a left click...I am a right clicking fool in other programs.

Thanks by the way. I'm a happy camper now that I know I can satify my right click habit in the game also...

< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 1/6/2005 3:49:42 PM >

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to WhoCares)
Post #: 9
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 1:02:13 AM   
Onime No Kyo


Posts: 16842
Joined: 4/28/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rogueusmc

It doesn't give any benefit gamewise to keep nationalities together (though it should IMHO), I just like to be historical. US Navy didn't combine TFs much with other nationalities. Different nationalities had different ways of doing things. In alot of cases, it would have produced clashes amongst the commanders (something that is not good in combat).


The two instances I can think of, ABDA command and Watchtower, they did ok in coordinationg multinational forces. Even for the former I would say that it was not quite a royal FUBAR, considering what they had to work with and in what conditions. I'm sure there are other instances as well. For example UK CVs off Okinawa did well. They were screwed with at the very top of the food chain, supply-wise, but the station commander used them very well, IMO.

_____________________________

"Mighty is the Thread! Great are its works and insane are its inhabitants!" -Brother Mynok

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 10
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 2:52:28 AM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		Not that I really know but:

As I understand it, you don't need to necessarily have the ships in the TF all be the same nationality or not, so much as have been together as a unit and worked as a unit. For example 6 random CAs and DDs that have never seen each other before will not do well at night off Guadalcanal even if they are all USN.

Being of the same nationality helps a little (same doctrine) and the Dutch may have a language confusion with the US, but there are certainly crack ASW units that are combined US/Brit and in the gulf today there are units that are part Brit, part US and part Aussie (see Naval Institute Proceedings about 10/04) that are good "units" but that is because they have practiced together.

To put this in game terms (Hey Frag, get someone to put this on the list) there should be "TF Prep Points". A scratch TF has 0 prep points when formed and works at a low efficiency. After 100 days the TF has max (100) prep points and works well as a unit.

Add 1 DD to an 8 ship TF and the Prep points fall by 1/8th etc.

Piece of cake to program and test.

_____________________________


Beezle - Rapidly running out of altitude, airspeed and ideas.

(in reply to Onime No Kyo)
Post #: 11
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 6:49:37 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I respectfully disagree to this proposal.

The exp level of units matter more here. Units with enough training and combat experience (represented by the exp point system in the game at present) do fine together with foreign units using the same overall doctrine (reads as: folks who know their jobs!). The only awkward bumps are usually communications ones: language barriers, radio frequency assignments, call signs and recognition problems; but these should be handled well enough with a competant chief of staff. (Represented by leadership values.) The "realism" level you are striving for with this add-on is, in my opinion only, too much for too little effect.

It would be another "undocumented" feature (as the manual wont get changed), and will confuse and frustrate the future noobies.

It will require further modification to the code, from people who already have a full plate of requests from the fans.

(Let's let them stick to fixing something that is already modeled in the game, like land combat, or japanese oil getting sucked to one end of the islands, or an AI that "learns" and reacts to the player, etc.)

The instant "band of brothers" that our units becomes when formed together doesn't bother me. It works the same for both players.

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 12
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 8:21:48 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		I got an answer to my original question...I'm happy...I didn't know about the right click thing on the TF creation screen.

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to mlees)
Post #: 13
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 2:05:24 PM   
Skander

 

Posts: 14
Joined: 12/31/2004
Status: offline 		I'd like to see a name for the type of ship in addition to its code (eg CS, AK etc.) on its information screen as well. There's plenty of room, and without a printed manual it's a royal pain until one manages to memorize everything.

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 14
RE: Class or nationality... - 1/7/2005 2:20:39 PM   
wild_Willie2


Posts: 2934
Joined: 10/8/2004
From: Arnhem (holland) yes a bridge to far...
Status: offline 		you will learn the "shorts" for ship discriptions very soon if you play this game......

A situation like "hey a japanese ship, hmmmm a "BB" wat was that again?, o wat ever, I will just go and blow it up with my "CL". Should be more than sufficient to shoot the crap out of that puny "BB" gun, gna, gn,a gna,

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 15
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