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RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 8:20:24 PM

SemperAugustus

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Ravenhood
I don't really understand your complaints about the time feature, first of all armies don't move with lightning speed, so its not that you lack time to react to threats, second of all you are free to pause the game if you feel like it for your relaxing game of strategy and tactics. Earlier you complained that pausing takes too much time in multiplayer, which is again is rather curious considering the time WiTP takes to play in multiplayer.
HoI2 gives you the opportunity to play with a fidelity down to hours if you so choose, but at the same time you are not forced to do 1 hour turns all the time, e.g. for the prewar era. Its just a "variable" turn length from my perspective. But I think we will simply have to say we disagree about it.
Claiming tradition on PBEM is fine, but at the same time most people that are playing games have grown up with online gaming. For them PBEM is just a curious relic of a bygone era. I would much prefer more LAN support on Matrix games allowing the players to execute simultaneous turns rather than being forced to use email.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 121

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 8:22:44 PM

dinsdale

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
The difference I see is that HOI 1 and HOI 2 are in fact the same game, there's no small version vs large version in this instance. Whereas UV and WitP are in fact two quite different sizes.

Looks like hair splitting to me. There are a bunch of changed features in HOI/HOI2 and UV/WiTP but you think that size is the most important

quote:

Thus, they aren't the same games, and they don't have a 2 beside WitP, whereas with HOI 2 they do, so they are specifically stating that HOI 2 is just another rendition of HOI 1. Although really WitP is a newer rendtion of "Pacific War" in many ways.

So by adding the "2" to the name it renders the games the same?

These are really poor arguements Ravinhood, you're usually better than this

quote:

I also don't really see Paradox games as "wargames", they are era specific type games, but, I can't place a wargame on any of them, especially with this real time simulation they come with. No room for PBEM at all with this type of engine. And trying to play Multiplayer with their engine is next to impossible because of all the "pausing" really required at all different intervals by someone. They are strategy games at best. But, none of their products really comes close to being historically realistic or a wargame. Anytime anyone can take a minor like Brazil and crush the Axis, well that just speaks loudly that it's not an historically accurate wargame.

I agree with you there. I've never found any enjoyment in multiplayer. I use pause so much that I can't get to grips with the rushed feel of multiplayer. I know some people seem to love it, but it's not for me.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 122

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 8:38:13 PM

Error in 0

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Releasing a new game without doing any graphical upgrading easily gives the feeling it is just a patched-up version of the same game. I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 partly because of this. C.O.R.E made HoI look soo much better, and I did expect some more of paradox. Alright, there are more important changes, but still.... Even the 'help'-codes are the same, even if the resource-system is new. I wonder if by design or accident...:)

JT

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 123

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 9:02:29 PM

FJeff

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I'd have more respect for your opinion, ravinhood, if you had the itellectual honesty to add a disclaimer to your Amazon review of HOI2 to the effect that you haven't played the game.

Major changes to air and naval combat, technology, trade, and movement seems like enough to justify it's being a new game.

I've been wargaming since I first got D-Day in the early sixties and while, PBM was fun for its time, I enjoy the variable RTS with pauses in HOI1. Times change and some of us get younger as we get older. :)

< Message edited by FJeff -- 1/9/2005 2:15:39 PM >

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Post #: 124

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 9:17:14 PM

Colonel Warden

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dinsdale
I agree with you there. I've never found any enjoyment in multiplayer. I use pause so much that I can't get to grips with the rushed feel of multiplayer. I know some people seem to love it, but it's not for me.

The rush depends upon the speed setting, of course. Yesterday, I played a game of HoI and for much of the time the speed was slow/very slow. This seems like a crawl to some players who tend to play with faster speed settings but it's necessary to avoid the click-fest feel. So, it's mainly a matter of finding a group that like to play at a speed that compatible with your taste.

The problem with turn-based play is having to wait for someone who just will think all day about an issue. MoO3 tried to build in some incentive to finish early - a better interest rate I think but the game was too flawed in other respects to be sure. And that game felt it had to have real-time combat in order to handle multiple player play in a sensible time. That's the great thing about HoI - being able to play with not just one other player, but ten of them all at once.

Andrew

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 125

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 9:19:01 PM

ravinhood

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quote:

So by adding the "2" to the name it renders the games the same?

These are really poor arguements Ravinhood, you're usually better than this

When you buy novels or booklets with versions I - II - III etc. etc., they are most often based on the same subject matter, just a continuation of the story. I see no difference in games using 2's, 3's, IV's. They are just a continuation of the "same game" I already played with just new "chapters". I see HOI 2 as a continuing chapter of HOI 1, looks the same, same era, same basic gameplay, WWII operational. Show me the difference other than "mechanics"?

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 126

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 9:21:47 PM

elmo3

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

...I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 ...
JT

Yeah, the "demo" is little more than a trailer. Research, production, and diplomacy which are some of the core features are all disabled. Makes one wonder why they even bothered making a demo that doesn't demonstrate the games main features.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/9/2005 7:22:26 PM >

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Post #: 127

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 10:04:06 PM

Hortlund

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Yeah, Paradox should be handing out the game for free

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Post #: 128

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/9/2005 10:12:19 PM

Koper

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warfare1

Here is quite an extensive review by a player who has played a few games of HoI2 (and he's not too happy with the game):

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180539

Yup, pretty good summary of what can be the problem for many former players of HoI1. AI, less place for going wildly ahistorical in R&D, new air strike rules (airforce can't be now used in so focused way as it was before), logistics... He also must be much better player then me if he ended Eastern Front campaign so quickly on V.Hard (although he didn't mention what happens when combat in low infra provinces starts...).

(in reply to Warfare1)

Post #: 129

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 12:20:28 AM

ravinhood

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quote:

I would much prefer more LAN support on Matrix games allowing the players to execute simultaneous turns rather than being forced to use email

That's fair enough, we all have our "preferences" of course. Everyone will never be happy with any one game. But, of course I will crusade for what I think is best. When I'm dead and gone, well then it doesn't really matter. ;)

As they move away from the old core the old core will disappear, same thing will happen to this core of gaming, when they move to a new core of gaming style, this very core will step into my shoes and talk about how todays (which will be yesterdays games to the new core) games are better than tomorrows games. It's just a trend of change.

I prefer Matrix style games, HPS style games, some Shrapnel style games and Shwerpunkt style games. I liked MTW, but, that was the only one of the series and I pretty much loathe all RTS games, except for Kohan and The Seven Kingdoms and Sacrifice. So, we just all have our preferences and would like to see ALL companies make the games "we individually" like of course. ;)

With me though, I have no problem if Matrix makes games LAN playable as long as they hold onto the PBEM ability in all of them also. Variety of a way to play is great. Just as long as it doesn't turn into an RTS game. ;)

(in reply to SemperAugustus)

Post #: 130

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 2:07:23 AM

dinsdale

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Colonel Warden
The rush depends upon the speed setting, of course. Yesterday, I played a game of HoI and for much of the time the speed was slow/very slow. This seems like a crawl to some players who tend to play with faster speed settings but it's necessary to avoid the click-fest feel. So, it's mainly a matter of finding a group that like to play at a speed that compatible with your taste.

My solo taste is usually fast/very fast during the lulls, followed by very slow and pause to do anything so it always means adapting if playing MP.

quote:

The problem with turn-based play is having to wait for someone who just will think all day about an issue.

I agree, all forms of MP have their pros and cons, which is why I'm not sure I'll ever be getting into MP as a main way of playing any game. That and my schedule which might not leave me time for days, and then at odd hours.

quote:

MoO3 tried to build in some incentive to finish early - a better interest rate I think but the game was too flawed in other respects to be sure. And that game felt it had to have real-time combat in order to handle multiple player play in a sensible time. That's the great thing about HoI - being able to play with not just one other player, but ten of them all at once.

MOO3 might have been a great candidate for continous time turns given the macro nature of the game. Had it been built purely with macro in mind, and given players the tools to carry out their orders the scope and scale would have been quite interesting. Of course, MOO3 had about 10,000 other problems in need of fixing first

----------------

quote:

ORIGINAL Ravinhood When you buy novels or booklets with versions I - II - III etc. etc., they are most often based on the same subject matter, just a continuation of the story. I see no difference in games using 2's, 3's, IV's. They are just a continuation of the "same game" I already played with just new "chapters". I see HOI 2 as a continuing chapter of HOI 1, looks the same, same era, same basic gameplay, WWII operational. Show me the difference other than "mechanics"

If mechanics don't matter, then not only is HOI=HOI2, but Korsin Pocket=HOI=Battles In Normandy=Highway To The Reich=Axis And Allies. Subject matter's all the same, only different mechanics.

Are graphics really required to make things different? Aren't you one of the proponents of games without "fancy" graphics as they add nothing to the game?

-----------------

The Demo should IMHO have been a time controlled version of the main game. I also see little point in seeing a subsection of the game which demonstrates combat only.

< Message edited by dinsdale -- 1/10/2005 12:08:59 AM >

(in reply to Colonel Warden)

Post #: 131

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 3:32:14 AM

ravinhood

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quote:

If mechanics don't matter, then not only is HOI=HOI2, but Korsin Pocket=HOI=Battles In Normandy=Highway To The Reich=Axis And Allies. Subject matter's all the same, only different mechanics

No I certainly wasn't speaking about the graphics, the graphics of the two are quite simular as well, but, that does make it another proponent of being alike games.

Now, Korsun pocket is different in that it is a specific micro situation, increasing scale of a particular "area" of the WAR but not the WHOLE war at all, Korsun would be that handful of units in HOI1 or HOI2 at a specific area on the map at a specific time and the battle would be over in one turn, HOI1 and HOI2 are a specific global situation. Also HOI plays in real time while Korsun plays in turns. Big difference there. Highway to the Reich I still can't speak on, I still do not have that game or have had to chance to play it.

I guess in subject matter I should be more specific to say that HOI 1 & HOI 2 are the same subject matter of a grand operational strategic wargame of World War II. They both do the same thing in that respect. There's nothing "new" there, only the mechanics have changed and most of that is just a streamline affect, not, really greatly improving the overall scope of the game. In fact from what I've read they have "restricted" some of what was allowed in HOI by placing "penalties" for teching up too quickly. I'm already not fond of that feature. It's already a "whatif" type of game, might as well stick to that, it's just not going to ever reach historically accurate by a long shot.

If you set HOI 1 and HOI 2 down in front of a 13 year old, the first question you would probalby get....what's the difference? What would you tell him? Everything is "improved" from HOI 1 to HOI 2? Meaning by improved, they made the same game, but, improved it from the first one. Once again I don't see a reason to purchase an errata sheet for the same game at the retail price level.

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 132

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 6:05:23 AM

dinsdale

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Now, Korsun pocket is different in that it is a specific micro situation, increasing scale of a particular "area" of the WAR but not the WHOLE war at all, Korsun would be that handful of units in HOI1 or HOI2 at a specific area on the map at a specific time and the battle would be over in one turn, HOI1 and HOI2 are a specific global situation. Also HOI plays in real time while Korsun plays in turns. Big difference there. Highway to the Reich I still can't speak on, I still do not have that game or have had to chance to play it.

Scope is different, but the only other changes are in game mechanics. Turn and continous turn are mechanics, both require moving units around with the goal of defeating one's opponent. If we boil things down to this level, then tic-tac-toe and chess are the same as KP too

The point I was trying to illustrate, is that one may make the same arguement you've made and lump all these games together as they concern WW2 and have movable units. At some point, the rules and game mechanics must be used to seperate them.

quote:

In fact from what I've read they have "restricted" some of what was allowed in HOI by placing "penalties" for teching up too quickly. I'm already not fond of that feature. It's already a "whatif" type of game, might as well stick to that, it's just not going to ever reach historically accurate by a long shot.

I haven't played it so I can't really comment. I will say that the constant battle between gameplay-historic restriction-reality are three sometimes competing goals which lead to these decisions. That's where A3R and WiF will always IMHO be superior game systems, what's the point in spending resources to make many things what-if if another branch of gameplay forces one down a single path. Better, IMHO to simulate the war and reasonable deviants than to sim 22 years. One of the things which amazes me is fixed death dates for leaders. That might make good sense in EU, but a very strange decision for an open ended WW2 situation. I really wonder how that belongs in a game where Germany can declare war on Brazil

quote:

If you set HOI 1 and HOI 2 down in front of a 13 year old, the first question you would probalby get....what's the difference? What would you tell him? Everything is "improved" from HOI 1 to HOI 2? Meaning by improved, they made the same game, but, improved it from the first one. Once again I don't see a reason to purchase an errata sheet for the same game at the retail price level.

That's just another disguised "graphics are the same" arguement. You could tell him that the games are different, that air/naval is completely different, that tech has been changed, that combat has radically changed. Movement-is-attack is not only new, but appears to have imported a whole new series of issues: judging from some of the reaction to the demo.

Battles In Normandy and KP are similar games, basically different scenarios with a few added game mechanics. They are sufficiently close so that one needs to be a fan of the first, but sufficiently different to make it a mostly new experience. I'd say HOI1/HOI2 is in a similar position.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 133

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 9:10:10 AM

ravinhood

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quote:

At some point, the rules and game mechanics must be used to seperate them.

Heh, what about all those sequels that only got a "graphics facelift" and hardly a mechanical change? I think Sid Meiers "Pirates" recently re-released is a good example of that. There were some basic mechanical changes, but, hardly enough to render this game much different from the origional, except for the graphics facelift. Was it worth another $40 to be able to "dance" with the govenors daughter? haha

What' I'm trying to illustrate is that HOI 2 has the same basic setup as HOI 1, it has the same goals, it pretty much has the same map with a few extra provinces added. The overall picture of the game remains the same, even if the mechanics have changed somewhat and are more streamlined. It's more of a "fix" than it is a brand new game to me.

What makes HOI more popular than Axis & Allies? Complexity? But, what makes it different from Axis & Allies as far as the overall scope of the game? Same question would go for "Strategic Command" vs those two. The same question will popup when Gary Grisgbys World at War comes out. The significant difference is in the preference and style of play gamers have and what challenge level they are looking for. I like short and quick games of challenge, you might like those that take days, weeks, and months. Others will like an inbetween the two. Then there is the complexity level, some like all levels of complexity, some only like very hard, some only like very easy. This is what separates them all from one another.

Some will buy all (4), some will only buy one style, some will mix and match.

Axis & Allies has a weak AI, HOI 1 has no less and really HOI 2 has not much more than the previous two. Does a 10% improvement in the AI warrant a repeat purchase of the same overall type of game upon "release"? Does being able to attack when move warrant a repeat purchase of the same overall type of game upon "release"? Are those really significant differences? If I can still swarm the map as Germany or Japan or Russia or the Allies, what significant difference is there to this game? That I can do it with a new interface? That I can do it on the move instead of waiting on the move? lol Hardly a reasonable effort to cause me to want to purchase this one until many months later.

The most fundamental aspect of any new game should be the "challenge" level of it, will it challenge me, or just waste my time again as games of the past? Is the challenge level significantly higher (and I do mean significantly higher)? or is it just a UI and graphics facelift and a more streamlined effort?

I grow bored of a game very quickly when I see I am going to be able to over-run the AI with ease, RTW left me feeling this way, but, MTW did not. Some say just the opposite of the two. But, my preferences are for the features and way of play of MTW vs RTW. There are so many features that are broken in RTW it's not even funny. People say "well don't use the features", lol, didn't I pay for those features? So, shouldn't I find challenge with or without those features? Why must I stifle my gameplay at the expense of not using the "features" of the game? How many features will be exploitable in HOI 2, I don't know I haven't found them all yet. But, I warrant to say there will be features that are exploitable by merely "using them as intended" and thus reduce the challenge level of it.

And btw, where's LES/HEXED GAMER? ;) I would really enjoy reading his comments about the new release of HOI 2 as well. I'm sure he has some insightful information to share with us. :)

(in reply to dinsdale)

Post #: 134

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 10:46:36 AM

DerekP

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I'm kind of confused Ravinhood? You bought the game anyway?

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Post #: 135

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 11:18:14 AM

ravinhood

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Nope, surely didn't buy it, and nope, surely didn't pirate it either. So you figure out how I got to play it. ;)

(in reply to DerekP)

Post #: 136

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 1:24:06 PM

SemperAugustus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood
Axis & Allies has a weak AI, HOI 1 has no less and really HOI 2 has not much more than the previous two. Does a 10% improvement in the AI warrant a repeat purchase of the same overall type of game upon "release"?

How much of an AI improvement do you need to warrant a repeat purchase? 20%, 50%, 100%? How do you determine a weak AI? Acts "realistically"? Always beats you? Doesn't do stupid things? We after all talking about a game where you can have 10 or 20 AI allies fighting another set of AI countries.

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 137

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 4:38:34 PM

Error in 0

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund

Yeah, Paradox should be handing out the game for free

Well that would be just great!

But seriously, I have played many demos that are a lighyear better than this one. Disabelling all but the ground/air fighting is like presenting 40% of the game. They could of course have made the demo a full game limited in play-time to ie 1.jan 1939, or demo playable for 3 days or something. Worried of demo cracks etc? Ill bet the full game already is available as cracked downloads.

Like Ravinhood I was very sceptical about HoI2, and the demo did nothing to improve this. However, reading some posts here regarding the improved AI has made me change my mind. Ill get HoI2 sooner or later.

JT

(in reply to Hortlund)

Post #: 138

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 5:06:25 PM

Reiryc

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quote:

And btw, where's LES/HEXED GAMER? ;) I would really enjoy reading his comments about the new release of HOI 2 as well. I'm sure he has some insightful information to share with us. :)

He was suspended for a couple weeks for being his usual self...

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Post #: 139

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 5:22:26 PM

Hanal

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

quote:

And btw, where's LES/HEXED GAMER? ;) I would really enjoy reading his comments about the new release of HOI 2 as well. I'm sure he has some insightful information to share with us. :)

He was suspended for a couple weeks for being his usual self...

As long as his comments do not involve attacks on people who like the game, then his opinions would be most welcome...

(in reply to Reiryc)

Post #: 140

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 5:47:57 PM

elmo3

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HOI2 1.1 is out already. Looks like quite a list of fixes and enhancements.

Edit - Since some of the discussion here has focused on the AI, following are the 1.1 changes:

*******************************
******* AI Improvements *******
*******************************

- Worked alot on the front AI to teach it to evaluate attack and defend odds better, also improved its
- Improved the AI's evaluation of when to break off attacks.
- Improved the AI's understanding of establishing reserves.
- AI now tries to group motorized infantry with mechs and armor if possible.
- The AI now synchronizes attacks smarter.
- Now the front AI reacts quicker to the players and other nations actions.
- Air AI taskforce composition has been improved.
- Air AI is now better att evaluating when to evacuate bases.
- Wolfpack AI now spreads out attacks more.
- Convoy AI now adapts better to hostilities, and also attempts to bring home stockpiles more efficiently.
- Improved the cooperation between AIR and Naval AI.
- The AI is now a lot smarter about using its serial runs.
- Improved the AI for researching technologies.
- Pathfing AI is now much smarter and tries to avoid danger if possible.
- The AI for accpeting nations asking to join their alliance was rewritten.
- Diplomatic AI now cancels non-agression pacts in attempts to honor guarantees, and is also more likely to honor guarantees they have given.
- Loads and loads more of AI code and scripts written for various cases of when circumstances change.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/10/2005 3:56:43 PM >

(in reply to Hanal)

Post #: 141

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 6:30:58 PM

SemperAugustus

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Perhaps this adds another 20% to the AI ability so Ravenhood goes and buys the game ;)

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Post #: 142

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 6:36:07 PM

Hanal

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Thanks for the patch info...this confirms my original thought, that though I have been swayed and will buy HOI2, despite not liking HOI, I will hold off awhile until some of the gameplay issues are ironed out......by the way, can you play HOI2 without having the CD in the drive?...that was one feature I liked about HOI.....

< Message edited by J P Falcon -- 1/10/2005 11:37:34 AM >

(in reply to SemperAugustus)

Post #: 143

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/10/2005 7:05:10 PM

CatLord

Posts: 312
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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3

HOI2 1.1 is out already. Looks like quite a list of fixes and enhancements.

The 1.1 pack is here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=180604

More tweaks and enhancements than fix IMHO, but I won't argue here about what is a fix and what is an enhancement, because I can see it will just divide people amongst their defensive lines again.

The thing I can say though, is that it's damn quick for a first patch, even so as apparently it was not driven by a lot of CTD (in fact, there is no CTD fix if I read the release note correctly).

Anyway, I know it won't change your opinion by now.

Those who want to wait, wait ! Those who want to play, enjoy !

Cheers,

Cat

PS: If there are any French speakers interested, I am currently involved in an UV AAR over there in the Paradox French OT Forum...

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(in reply to elmo3)

Post #: 144

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 3:30:39 AM

McNaughton

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Releasing a new game without doing any graphical upgrading easily gives the feeling it is just a patched-up version of the same game. I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 partly because of this. C.O.R.E made HoI look soo much better, and I did expect some more of paradox. Alright, there are more important changes, but still.... Even the 'help'-codes are the same, even if the resource-system is new. I wonder if by design or accident...:)

JT

HAHAHAHA! Makes me laugh! Makes me think about UV and WitP! What is WitP but a rehash of PacWar and an expansion of UV based on YOUR logic!

Think before you post! HoI2 is vastly different than HoI1, and graphics don't mean spit for a wargame. It is just eye candy to hide a complicated spreadsheet for most wargames. It just means time was spent on gameplay and historic flow than sprites and graphics. I didn't buy UV, but I bought WitP. I also have HoI and HoI2.

< Message edited by McNaughton -- 1/11/2005 1:31:52 AM >

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Post #: 145

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 7:43:28 AM

SeaMonkey

Posts: 804
Joined: 2/15/2004
Status: offline

EEEEEEHHhhh!!! Enough already. Is this a relevant discussion of substance or people imposing their will of opinion? Games are the reflection of an idea of simulation, using that philosophy, they are all related. One an improved version/idea of another, a stimulant of evolution, why argue about it...get on with it...and play and give me something pertinent so I can decide to invest or not. Is it worth it? All I can say is "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", "Different strokes for different folks"_________________add your cliche here. I have played the demo numerous times...... it has been deleted, but the acknowledgement of a potentially enhancing experience, has not. Play my fellow humans....Play... enjoy the fruits of your labor and provide the feedback of some material....not fleeting philosophy, so that we humans of scrutinization may reach a conclusion.

(in reply to McNaughton)

Post #: 146

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 10:58:51 AM

IainMcNeil

Posts: 2804
Joined: 10/26/2004
From: London
Status: offline

I second that - I've had enough of this disucussion! Every board has an argument between the pro & anti Paradox games and it gets repetitive after a while! Lets use all that energy in a more positive way.

The only way to win is not to play. How about a nice game of chess ;)

_____________________________

Iain McNeil
Director
Matrix Games

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Post #: 147

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 3:24:05 PM

Warfare1

Posts: 658
Joined: 10/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

How about a nice game of chess ;)

Is that you, Hal?

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Post #: 148

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 3:44:30 PM

elmo3

Posts: 5820
Joined: 1/22/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey

...and play and give me something pertinent so I can decide to invest or not. Is it worth it? ...

Someone asked this at Paradox and the answers, as of last night, were all positive. The general feeling seems to be that it is the least buggy of all Paradox 1.0 releases. A few CTD's reported and the usual disagreements on some design decisions but I haven't seen reports of anything like the problems we all had with HOI out of the box. There are a couple of threads in the computer gaming forum at The Wargamer with some comments. People at Octopus Overlords are also happy with it for the most part. Surprisingly there hasn't been much at Usenet in the war-historical group yet, but there is a short commentary in the strategic group by Henri A.

< Message edited by elmo3 -- 1/11/2005 1:46:09 PM >

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Post #: 149

RE: Review of HoI2 over at wargamers - 1/11/2005 4:32:07 PM

Error in 0

Posts: 248
Joined: 7/19/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: McNaughton

quote:

ORIGINAL: JallaTryne

Releasing a new game without doing any graphical upgrading easily gives the feeling it is just a patched-up version of the same game. I was dissapointed of the demo of HoI2 partly because of this. C.O.R.E made HoI look soo much better, and I did expect some more of paradox. Alright, there are more important changes, but still.... Even the 'help'-codes are the same, even if the resource-system is new. I wonder if by design or accident...:)

JT

HAHAHAHA! Makes me laugh! Makes me think about UV and WitP! What is WitP but a rehash of PacWar and an expansion of UV based on YOUR logic!

Think before you post! HoI2 is vastly different than HoI1, and graphics don't mean spit for a wargame. It is just eye candy to hide a complicated spreadsheet for most wargames. It just means time was spent on gameplay and historic flow than sprites and graphics. I didn't buy UV, but I bought WitP. I also have HoI and HoI2.

Laugh all you want, but bashing me is immature at best. If you buy a new game with old graphic, does this not lend hand to the feeling this is not a new game? I certainly believe so, and if you ask the marked out there, Im sure they feel this too. I also point out there is many changes to the game that is more important than a change of the graphics would be, but you obviously did not read that. If HoI2 did improve the graphichs, I am sure many would be more positive to the idea of HoI2 being an new game. Its really difficult to make that distinction based on screenshots or a limited Demo.

Thank you very much for your valuable input.

JT

(in reply to McNaughton)

Post #: 150