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You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:32:23 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I still think this is insane. There's a lot of middle-of-the-road wargmers who are interested in this game, but asking us to fork out that much money for a game we can't test ourselves is ludicrous.

So until you make the price $50 or less, this gamer and many of his friends will not be buying this title. I know your reasoning... fewer sales needs higher prcies. But I'll tell you, ther'es a ton of people I know who will not gamble that much money on something they can't try first. You need to drop the price way down, or offer a demo. If you don't, you're hurting your own sales for the future, and dimishing the # of expansion packs you will sell as well.
Post #: 1
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:34:47 AM   
WiTP_Dude


Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I was wondering about the no demo policy myself. Supposedly it isn't needed because demo users will get frustrated by the game and not want to buy the full version.

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 2
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:39:40 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		Your loss.

Buy UV for a small taste of WITP. There is your demo.

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)
Post #: 3
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:41:29 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WiTP_Dude

I was wondering about the no demo policy myself. Supposedly it isn't needed because demo users will get frustrated by the game and not want to buy the full version.


That's a copout. They don't want to make a demo, then cut the price so if we're burned by a game we hate, we're not out so much money. If they don't want to increase their market presence, then I think they're terribly short-sighted.

10 games @ $45.00 for digital download = $450.00

0 games @ $70 for digital download = $0.00

Personally I'd take the sales, since digital downloads cost them very little . But then again, I'm not a Matrix marketing genius...

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)
Post #: 4
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:44:47 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Your loss.

Buy UV for a small taste of WITP. There is your demo.


You want me to pay $40 for a demo? Technically an older game?

Kids, it's not good to do drugs...

(in reply to 2ndACR)
Post #: 5
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:48:36 AM   
testarossa


Posts: 952
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Vancouver, Canada
Status: offline 		He meant they should allow to download it for free.

_____________________________

Dr. Miller: I should've called the marines!
Dalton: They're few, they're proud... And they ain't here!!!


(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 6
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:50:33 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpinard

quote:

ORIGINAL: 2ndACR

Your loss.

Buy UV for a small taste of WITP. There is your demo.


You want me to pay $40 for a demo? Technically an older game?

Kids, it's not good to do drugs...

That why ya didn't take your ridlin this morning?

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 7
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:51:51 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		lolz

ive played ALOT of games and demos in my 15 year gaming carrer


and tho it it does seem unusual for a game to not have a demo, from wat ive SEEN, UV is the demo for WITP

tho i havent been able to get WITP yet

but if its any indication at all, WITP is even better than UV

im currently addicted to UV for the 2nd time

_____________________________


(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 8
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:54:03 AM   
Grotius


Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline 		I quite happily bought WITP without a demo, and I can safely say it's one of the best game purchases I've ever made.

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 9
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:55:22 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not paying $40 for an old game I can't demo. That's ridiculous. What's even more ridicuous is if I liked it, then I needed to buy WitP for $70, and I'm now out $110 for a single game.

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 10
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 4:57:10 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

I quite happily bought WITP without a demo, and I can safely say it's one of the best game purchases I've ever made.

ONE of the best?...

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Grotius)
Post #: 11
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:01:23 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		All I can say is if you must have a demo before you buy a game, then you are just gonna have to miss out. I learned a long time ago that demos count for beans. Cool features get ripped out of the final, or get added in. Games that had awsome demos turned out to be crap, and vice versa. All I can say is if you truly love wargames, and want to manage almost everything conceivable, then get it. But honestly, no demo can realistically conceive the size and scope of this wargame.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to rogueusmc)
Post #: 12
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:04:39 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		Probably most Witp players already had UV and since WitP is an expansion of UV, no demo was needed. Still UV shgould be played first to get the feel of WitP. 2ACR suggestion to get UV first is not out of line.

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 13
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:18:22 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline 		PLus, at non Matrix stores it can be had for 20 bucks..... Not too sure why its still 40 at Matrix, but oh well (I got mine for 30 at chipsbits 3 years ago.

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 14
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:20:49 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		$19.99 for mine 2 years ago.best 20 dollar bill I ever spent.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

PLus, at non Matrix stores it can be had for 20 bucks..... Not too sure why its still 40 at Matrix, but oh well (I got mine for 30 at chipsbits 3 years ago.


< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 1/26/2005 9:21:25 PM >

_____________________________

There are only two kinds of people that understand Marines: Marines and the enemy. Everyone else has a second-hand opinion.

Gen. William Thornson, U.S. Army


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 15
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:22:56 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Actually, failing to buy UV, which I did not, if they can play BTR and PW, they shouldn't have any problem. That's practically a demo since PW is free and BTR can probably be purchased pretty cheap through Ebay or some such, but if someone did that it might take them 6 months to give both a really good shake.

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 16
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:28:45 AM   
BrucePowers


Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		I said this in another thread earlier this evening. I love this game. I am not playing it as much as I thought I would, but I love it. When I walk away I save the file and it is there. I bought SPI's War in the Pacific in 1979 for $50.00. I loved that game (I still have it). It took 8 hours to set up, took up a full bedroom or the dining room of that apartment in 1979. Now it would take up the full playroom upstairs in my house. It only came out 2 or 3 times in full mode. There were something like 4000 units and various playing aids to set up. With WiTP, "Oh I am done for the night, save the file turn off the computer" and go do something else. All for $70.00 in 2004/2005 dollars. I also own Pacific Victory by Victory games and I like playing it. Not as much setup time but I still cannot leave it up too long. Also a lot of manual record keeping in both games.

(in reply to Drex)
Post #: 17
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:36:30 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

All I can say is if you must have a demo before you buy a game, then you are just gonna have to miss out. I learned a long time ago that demos count for beans. Cool features get ripped out of the final, or get added in. Games that had awsome demos turned out to be crap, and vice versa. All I can say is if you truly love wargames, and want to manage almost everything conceivable, then get it. But honestly, no demo can realistically conceive the size and scope of this wargame.



very true

its like movie trailers

wat u see in the trailer is not neccessarily wats gonna be in the movie

just like in the teaser trailer for episode 3 ROTS, anakin in the movie might not have red and yellow eyes, or itll just be a dream

_____________________________


(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 18
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:43:19 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline 		PLUS it took me sum 6 MONTHS to get to play this game once i had it, and id been waiting to get it for maybe a year or more

and its more than worth it

_____________________________


(in reply to marky)
Post #: 19
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:46:56 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		If you are looking for a game that will suck away your life, get you fired for sleeping on the job, get a divorce, have to surrender all the money you used to keep to the GF/wife, a game that can take 14+ hours just to setup the 1st turn in PBEM..........

Then this is it.

Also, UV is basically included on this game too. So there, you now get 2 for the price of one.

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 20
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:47:36 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I have never found a game demo that I enjoyed. The documentation was always lousy, and the confusion just caused me to pass on the game. If you really want some idea as to the way the game plays, read the AARs on this forum, as well as the review at Wargamer.com. If you still feel that you don't have enough information to purchase the game, then you're probably not a real wargamer.

We never had demos of any AH, SPI, Battleline or Yaquinto boardgames. We looked at the information on the box and purchased it based on that information and what we knew of the previous games put out by those designers. If you've played a Grigsby game before, you have a good idea as to what to expect. If not, and you can't find yourself to trust us on this message board (hey, if even Pasternaski says it is a "must buy" then it must be!), then you're going to miss out on the best game on this subject that has ever been made.

< Message edited by bradfordkay -- 1/26/2005 7:48:37 PM >

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 21
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:48:46 AM   
jpinard

 

Posts: 500
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline 		But they can put a timecap on the game so we can test out parts of it... I can get more of a feel for a game in 30 minutes thans ome can in 30 hours.

Sounds like they don't trust consumers to figure it out through a little play-session.

So if they know the previous owners are going to buy the expanions, what's the harm in a 30-minute demo to try and get NEW customers?

(in reply to marky)
Post #: 22
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:52:51 AM   
2ndACR


Posts: 5665
Joined: 8/31/2003
From: Irving,Tx
Status: offline 		30 minutes!!!!!!!!?????????????

You can not even scroll the entire map and look at all the units in that amount of time. Much less even try out the game engine.

Ever played PACWAR? That one is free here at Matrix.

If so, then this is the big, big cousin on steroids.

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 23
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 5:54:16 AM   
WiTP_Dude


Posts: 1434
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline 		30 mintues is too short to even run the tutorial. You need more like 30 hours to test it.

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 24
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:03:49 AM   
medicff

 

Posts: 710
Joined: 9/11/2004
From: WPB, Florida
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jpinard

I still think this is insane. There's a lot of middle-of-the-road wargmers who are interested in this game, but asking us to fork out that much money for a game we can't test ourselves is ludicrous.

So until you make the price $50 or less, this gamer and many of his friends will not be buying this title. I know your reasoning... fewer sales needs higher prcies. But I'll tell you, ther'es a ton of people I know who will not gamble that much money on something they can't try first. You need to drop the price way down, or offer a demo. If you don't, you're hurting your own sales for the future, and dimishing the # of expansion packs you will sell as well.


I understand your concern as I had similiar wonders before purchasing WITP. With game companies today you never know their dedication to working out bugs or making their product even playable (at least to my high standards). I had purchased and played UV before and was a little tainted at the stopping of support to work on WITP.

HOWEVER, purchasing WITP was by far an excellent choice with many, many enjoyable hours of playtime. Worth the bang for the buck sorta speak. A truly massive scale game with many hours of time and effort to make. And they are still working and supporting the game (thanks to 2X3 and Matrix and the hardworking people that are the testers and supporters).

So IMHO it is well worth the chance and I think you will be surprised if you take the leap!

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 25
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:04:39 AM   
Mr.Frag


Posts: 13410
Joined: 12/18/2002
From: Purgatory
Status: offline 		Yea, a good starting time commitment is two weeks, anything less then that and you'll just end up deleting it.

This game requires commitment, a lot of us should be committed

(in reply to WiTP_Dude)
Post #: 26
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:36:05 AM   
mlees


Posts: 2263
Joined: 9/20/2003
From: San Diego
Status: offline
quote:

You're losing sales with no demo/high price


I don't know how various companies decide on a price for their product, but I do know about my own gaming preferences.

In western culture, there is no haggling. You either feel the price is OK, or you don't get the product. (Except maybe gasoline, health care, food, utilities, etc ) I don't think $75,000 for a sports car is justified, and I don't need to drive one, so...

Ditto about the posts of the problems with demos. Rarely is it close to the finished product. In the case of this game, you'll get some idea of the gameplay by reading the AAR's and asking questions. It might take a few weeks to figure out some of the nuances (in how the game models the pacific war), but if you think the asking price is too high, it is smart to do the homework in the first place.

It's hard to judge how good a game just by looking at the box. I bought Atari's "Demon Stone" when it came out early this January. The box only had screenshots, and a plot setup. Little did I know that it was a console game imported to the desktop. It's also buggy as hell. It won't even run on my desktop (CD authentication bug). I lurked on the Atari Forum website for a few days, and after reading through a bunch of threads in the "Bug reporting/Support" sections, it became clear to me that there will be little of that (support, that is;) coming from Atari or the developers. (HUGE difference from Matrix! Atta boy, guys!)

Long story short, there's $40 down the crapper. So $70 is not bad, if the game keeps me playing it twice as long on average compared to others based on my attention span. And, IMO, this game beats even that, from what I can tell. I hope it will play on whatever Windows OS's I will be forced to use in the future.

Wrapup: Most games have websites nowadays. Lurk on their forums. Read critically. Be informed. Then buy (or not).

(in reply to jpinard)
Post #: 27
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:36:35 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Yea, a good starting time commitment is two weeks, anything less then that and you'll just end up deleting it.

This game requires commitment, a lot of us should be committed


I agree with Frag! Holy crap...miracles never cease! Seriously...it takes commitment but man, it's actually theraputic. Not in the shooter sense but as a way to occupy ones mind during trying times. Total immersion.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 28
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:38:06 AM   
sadja

 

Posts: 299
Joined: 8/1/2004
Status: offline 		The price of this game is irrelevent. I have plenty of $19-$35, games that I lose intrest and sit on the shelf. All anybody has to do is look at this web sight and see how much support, how much help from all the other players. Does this game have problems, you bet. Some purist will complain if we don't have the hgts and wgts of everybody that was involved. There are als simple sometimes frustrating quriks to the game. If you wan't a beer and prezzels game go by a shooter. if you want to really imerse yourself in WWII pacific history you could find nothing better. This game will consume a large part of you life, and playing PBEM is so easy that people can play as teams(not so easy). The PBEM is the greatist thing i have done. I used to play old Scheuble and Son's play by mail games where turns sometimes ran $45.00 in 1984 money. Plus phone bills in the $100s trying to fuss at other people. I went with out food and gas for my car during those times. Spending 65-85 bucks for this game is nothing if you are really a true gamer. It will take a true gamer to play this because of the time. There are many people out there who will and take this game as a labor of love. Do you people realize that there are people who spend hundreds of dollars and hunderes of hours of tme painting little lead figures to fight maybe 10 times a year on a table top battles of the past. Here you down load the game(and all the patches), study the manual, play the tutoral (both sides to get the feel) and ready to play all the other newbees out there. Got a problem with the rules send a post to the board, most of my questions have been answered within 10min.

I'm sorry if i rambled (the ritlian has worn off) But the biggest expense is time not the 80-100 dollars. This is the finest computer stratagy game i have ever played. If you like the period, you will end up loving it. If you aren't a fanatic where you have to win all the time,(you won't like the allies in the begining and won't like the japs in the end), but just enjoy the journey, this will be the best game you have ever played.

LONG LIVE THE CO-PROSPERITY MOVEMENT.

SADJA

PS If you don't think you can have fun read Thayne's AAR and he was just playing the AI

_____________________________

Your never Lost if you don't care where you are.

Tom Massie GPAA

(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 29
RE: You're losing sales with no demo/high price - 1/27/2005 6:51:23 AM   
marky


Posts: 5780
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mr.Frag

Yea, a good starting time commitment is two weeks, anything less then that and you'll just end up deleting it.

This game requires commitment, a lot of us should be committed



hahaha




my mom said i was crazy

or she said-

~all u do is sit at ur computer and play games~

~thats crazy~

im thinkin, if im crazy for playing great games all day and half the night, then the world has lost the definition of crazy, or its just become blurred!

whos with me?

_____________________________


(in reply to Mr.Frag)
Post #: 30
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