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RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/1/2005 4:12:56 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

quote:

RE: Naval battle in Tjilitjap (in reply to PzB)

A few comments on yesterdays battle, it was late and I didn't have time to go much into details:

The major engagement of the day:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Tjilitjap at 19,62

Japanese Ships - the Yamato doesn't even take part in the battle
BB Yamato
CA Chokai, Shell hits 1
CA Myoko, Shell hits 2
CL Sendai, Shell hits 9, on fire
CL Naka, Shell hits 3
CL Nagara, Shell hits 1
DD Akigumo
DD Kazegumo
DD Kuroshio
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 1
DD Maikaze, Shell hits 4, on fire
DD Shiranuhi, Shell hits 1

Allied Ships - all the slow US bb's are torpedoed!
BB Tennessee, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB New Mexico, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1
BB Mississippi, Shell hits 6, Torpedo hits 1
CA Indianapolis, Shell hits 4
CA Chester, Shell hits 4
CA Vincennes, Shell hits 2
CL Leander, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Sumatra
CL St. Louis
DD Meredith, Shell hits 1
DD Gwin, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Hammann, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Mustin
DD Russell, Shell hits 1
DD Blue
DD Helm, Shell hits 2
DD Mahan
DD Drayton
DD Lamson
DD Porter
DD Monaghan
DD Allen
DD Litchfield
DD Inconstant
DD Lawrence

A few things becomes clear to me: The Allied fleet is built around a cadre of useless battleships and supported by toothless destroyers.
The big ships can't hit dip $hit while the destroyers doesn't really pose a threat to anything else than other destroyers. I assume that the bulk of the Allied heavy cruiser force has been torpedoed in the Java Sea - or is acting as carrier escorts.

My return with an inferior TF tomorrow is risky: I hope that my torpedo cruisers, including the floating torpedo batter Oi, can slow down a few Allied ships and make them easy targets for my naval bombers that have all been given a loose chain for tomorrow

With a sizeable IJN carrier force in the area, it seems highly unlikely that Wobbly will be able to extract his fleet in one piece.
Another turn incoming now...going to have a look ASAP!!

_____________________________

PzB - John

quote:

Japanese Ships - the Yamato doesn't even take part in the battle

Here is an excellent example of the random availability of ships during surface combat needing some limitation. I'd love someone to rationalize this example...

Been a topic of debate since UV's inception but it has never been properly addressed.

_____________________________

Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 541

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/1/2005 10:45:40 AM

WhoCares

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Joined: 7/6/2004
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He should be happy that Yamato kept away. Mine was badly shot up by an old BB with 14" guns - 70 sys damage

Edit: It might be the Commander that makes it keep away. Just a thought...

< Message edited by WhoCares -- 3/1/2005 9:46:28 AM >

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 542

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 9:38:12 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Must admit that I don't really know what you're talking about Ron

The Yamato got 42 sys damage and still 8 fires...going home for an extended R&R.....

I got a turn yesterday together with a little vented frustration. I watched the replay and saved the game. Today I got a new turn, Al said he
got up on the wrong foot and wanted to change his orders. Ok with me! I've told him that he can quit whenever he wants to - 8 hard months is enough to make even the toughest Admiral reconsider.
I'm far from sure that I'll win an auto victory by 1/1-43 though. So personally I would have kept it going until Xmas to see what Santa will bring.

The new turn was actually quite different from the first one: The destroyer Kagero suffered a magazine explotion instead of the light cruiser Nagara. My bombing raids destroyed a few more ac on the ground
and I hit 2 ships in Tjilitjap harbour. The most unwelcome change took place in Ahmadabad - the forts came down to lvl 1 in the old turn but refused to budge in the new one. I've seen that several enemy reinforcements
have moved into town.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/06/42

Air Combat

Night Air attack on Ahmadabad , at 24,8

Japanese aircraft - one of the more efficient night bombing raids thus far
Ki-21 Sally x 35

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IF x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Blenheim IF: 1 damaged
Hudson I: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
Hurricane II: 1 destroyed, 6 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 2 destroyed

Allied ground losses:
19 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 8000 feet
7 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 8000 feet
18 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 8000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 8
G4M1 Betty x 10

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 9 damaged

Allied Ships - there are 67 ships in this little port. It's really impossible to miss!
CA Pensacola, Torpedo hits 1
BB Mississippi, Torpedo hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
7 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bandoeng , at 19,61

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40
Ki-21 Sally x 73

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
62 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
Vehicles lost 1

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 14

Aircraft Attacking:
All Ki-21 Sally bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 81st Naval Guard Unit, at 19,60

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 12
Beaufort V-IX x 27
A-20B Boston x 10
B-25C Mitchell x 19

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
43 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
All bombers bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 38th Division, at 24,8

Allied aircraft - again there are 5-6 Allied strikes against the Army in Ahmadabad
Wellington III x 4
B-17E Fortress x 2

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Wellington III bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 1st Burma Brigade, at 32,22

Japanese aircraft - preparations for the move against Burma from India
Ki-27 Nate x 7
Ki-21 Sally x 92
Ki-48 Lily x 26

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 1 damaged

Allied ground losses:
65 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
All Lily and Ki-21 Sally bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 16,59

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 16

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 3
DD Kagero, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage *magazine explodes* - sinks

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
8 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 14,60

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24
G3M Nell x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Empire Southey, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage *sinks*

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 141750 troops, 949 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 75403 troops, 463 guns, 833 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3) - the forts didn't go down for the first time in 4 attempts

Japanese ground losses:
940 casualties reported
Guns lost 57
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
1784 casualties reported
Guns lost 48
Vehicles lost 15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Lucknow

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 106748 troops, 901 guns, 788 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles - Al has run away again. Not many places left to run to!

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Japanese assault odds: 826 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Lucknow base !!!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 19,60

Allied Shock attack - Batavia next

Attacking force 32931 troops, 369 guns, 16 vehicles

Defending force 1057 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 1450 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
173 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
7 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 26,11

Japanese Deliberate attack - this is south of Dehli

Attacking force 7431 troops, 77 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 7058 troops, 101 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
156 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
171 casualties reported
Guns lost 9
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Situation Report

India

We're going to try to hit the enemy fleet in Karachi again! I now got 2 fleets in the area - want to make sure that the remaining ships of the RN are disabled.
In Ahmadabad the attacks will continue! In Lucknow we got an even larger army - now heading for Dehli.
5 divisions
6 tank regiments
4 eng regiments
4 arty units
3 construction units
1 AA unit

China

I've made up my mind - no more invasions - we're digging in. The traininig of 2 new Zero Daitais is going well. This will be the solution to my naval pilot problem

Java

A cruiser squadron is going to move into Batavia tonight! More naval bombers have been set on both naval and port attack. I want to force Al to head into the Indian Ocean.
Then the KB can take care of it. I'm a little amazed that 75 Saylly's cause so little damage to the enemy. There should be more planes on the ground, it's not possible that the enemy
keeps them airborne all day. Damage to enemy airbase facilities are also slight - we'll keep em coming though.

Spotted another transport above the KB - no sign of enemy fleets. (See map)
I got a sub with a search plane that's going to head into the map edge and down towards Perth. I'm afraid the undamaged carriers have moved down here. I don't have enough fuel
to search for them there. 2 seaplane tenders with destroyer escorts are going to scout my flanks. Shouldn't be possible for anything bigger than a yacht to sneak past them now.
We're going to move all the way up to Sumatra before turning towards Tjilitjap. There are 4-5 replenishment tf's around - so I've come to stay.

Situation Map: Searching for the Allied Fleet in the Indian Ocean

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by PzB -- 3/3/2005 8:39:06 AM >

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to WhoCares)

Post #: 543

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 10:29:16 PM

Tom Hunter

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Joined: 12/14/2004
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I've said this elsewhere but I will say it here too in 1942 the Royal Navy is the strongest surface force the Allies have. Wobbly's RN is on the bottom which is too bad for him the US DDs don't have decent torpedos so they accomplish very little.

Personally I agree with ADavidB that Wobbly should have broken up the TF some. I am not sure that 3 1BB TFs is the right way, a 3 BB TF with a light forces TF on a follow order might have worked better. I think the game engine would have had the BBs take on PZBs Yamato TF and the following group would have gone for the transports but I am not sure about that. Knowing Wobbly's luck the DDs would go for the Yamato and the BBs would wander off to a bar on land somewhere.

Very interesting game but I understand Wobbly's frustration. I am not winning my game with Blackwatch but every few weeks of real time I hurt him pretty good. Then I go back to being slapped around but at least I have memories and a ships sunk list that is full of Japanese CVLs and CVEs to look at. This game is so long that there is a real moral aspect too it and it looks like PzB is winning that part as well as the actaul battles.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 544

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 10:46:07 PM

Hornblower

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From: New York'er relocated to Chicago
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I've said this elsewhere but I will say it here too in 1942 the Royal Navy is the strongest surface force the Allies have. Wobbly's RN is on the bottom which is too bad for him the US DDs don't have decent torpedos so they accomplish very little.

Personally I agree with ADavidB that Wobbly should have broken up the TF some. I am not sure that 3 1BB TFs is the right way, a 3 BB TF with a light forces TF on a follow order might have worked better. I think the game engine would have had the BBs take on PZBs Yamato TF and the following group would have gone for the transports but I am not sure about that. Knowing Wobbly's luck the DDs would go for the Yamato and the BBs would wander off to a bar on land somewhere.

Very interesting game but I understand Wobbly's frustration. I am not winning my game with Blackwatch but every few weeks of real time I hurt him pretty good. Then I go back to being slapped around but at least I have memories and a ships sunk list that is full of Japanese CVLs and CVEs to look at. This game is so long that there is a real moral aspect too it and it looks like PzB is winning that part as well as the actaul battles.

In war, moral factors acount for three quarters of the whole; relative material strength accounts for only one quarter- Napleon

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 545

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 10:50:56 PM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

I've said this elsewhere but I will say it here too in 1942 the Royal Navy is the strongest surface force the Allies have. Wobbly's RN is on the bottom which is too bad for him the US DDs don't have decent torpedos so they accomplish very little.

Enh. I am impressed with some of the RN destroyers (look at the P class - ASW 8! Shame its not the Atlantic, eh? US destroyers all have ASW 2 except for the flush deckers) but the RN warships are crap IMHO. Their AAA ratings are dire in the extreme, even the CLAAs arent too impressive in that regard, and while they got lots of battleships they are so slow they are only good for Betty fodder I think.

I've never used a UK carrier in anger so I can't comment on them, but the miniscule complement and naff carrier fighters implies not good.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 546

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 11:13:20 PM

Bradley7735

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Joined: 7/12/2004
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Eubanana,
He's refering to the RN SURFACE forces. Yes, the old bb's are slow, but he's commenting on the DD's, Cruisers and fast BB's. They are the strongest ship to ship forces the allies have. They have better exp and better torpedoes. Later in the war, the US will make up for some of this disadvantage, but early on, the RN is the only navy that can go toe to toe with the Jap surface forces. Yes, the AA sucks, but force Z can destroy an invasion force. US surface forces don't have as good a chance at winning as the RN does.

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 547

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/2/2005 11:49:13 PM

Tom Hunter

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Joined: 12/14/2004
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EUBanana if you want to see the difference take a look at the 3 big gun battles that have been fought between me and Blackwatch in our AAR. The RN one two, the Japanese won one, and the USA won zero.

The forces involved were very similar to the ones Wobbly and PzB had in thier recent battle except for the battle of Bali where the RN had 3 BBs a CA, CLs and DDs and the Japanese only had CAs and DDs. But even that one proves my point, the Japanese got hit by torpedos which exploded and hurt thier ships. US torps don't explode very often in the early war British and Dutch do.

As for Betty fodder I think I can saftely say that Blackwatch wishes my RN BBs were Betty fodder and PzB must be thankful that Wobbly's are saftely on the bottom and not roaming around.

< Message edited by Tom Hunter -- 3/2/2005 9:51:01 PM >

(in reply to Bradley7735)

Post #: 548

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 12:15:47 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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Agree with you guys! I've always treated the RN with respect. When I saw an opportunity I sent in the kitchen sink in order to strike his old battleships.
As it is, I'm the only one with battleships in India. That's a great advantage - I can hit Karachi anytime I want - and the enemy cruisers can't really hurt me.
I'm using my night fighting advantage to all it's worth by sending in fast and agile cruiser squadrons whenever I can.

Remember playing the old Pacific War, and even there the old RN bb's had sharp teeth! Shredded me more than once, so I think I've stored this piece of vital information somewhere in the deep...

BB's ain't that useful in surface engagements, especially not when there are long lancers around

RN destroyers - and PGs - and MSWs

have minced all the subs I had around Bombay. I'm now desperately trying to get a shot at the last enemy cruiser TF there. I got some Betties, but they have a bad tendency to fly over Karachi with its CAP.

I'm usually trying to send in multiple tf's - this is a good way of overwhelming the opponent or to destroy a damaged TF completely.

Hornblower: Wobbly has really played a good game, but I've been mean and punished him hard for his forward stance in Burma. The loss of the RN bb's, the trashing of his dive bombers in Batavia etc put him in dire straits. Can't blaim him, I find it rather frustrating to play the Allies in another WitP game against Mike Hall. I have to constrain myself in order to not do anything stupid.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 549

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 12:27:55 AM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

You'll have to give me some tips then, I always get cruisers annihilated when I play.

I have no doubt that Warspite, Prince of Wales et al can put the hurt on in surface combat with the Japs toe to toe - I just think the top speed of 21 knots on those battlewagons and the Betties everywhere makes it very hard to get them in position for those guns to do anything.

As I said though thats under my inept admiralship, so maybe it's just my misuse of them.

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 550

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 12:32:55 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
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I've yet to see a IJN ca be crushed by enemy bb's in WitP...even in UV it was a rare occasion.
Guess I've had all the luck

I'm usually putting an aggressive admiral in command and restrict TF size to 10-15 ships.
If available, I also add a radar equipped ship to the formation.

But you're right, Whole lotta Betty is much to much for any man to handle in 42! So patience is probably the best solution.
Hide the old battlewagons in Karachi until you really, really need them. If Al had em all boxed up there now, I'm not sure how I would have
approached them.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 551

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 12:43:28 AM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PzB

I've yet to see a IJN ca be crushed by enemy bb's in WitP...even in UV it was a rare occasion.
Guess I've had all the luck I'm usually putting an aggressive admiral in command and restrict TF size to 10-15 ships.
If available, I also add a radar equipped ship to the formation.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Mersing at 23,49

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 9
BB Haruna, Shell hits 4
CA Takao
CA Atago
CL Jintsu
DD Asashio
DD Oshio
DD Michishio
DD Arashio, Shell hits 1
DD Akatsuki
DD Hibiki, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 3, on fire
BC Repulse, Shell hits 5
CL Danae
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
DD Vampire
DD Vendetta
DD Stronghold
DD Tenedos
DD Electra, Shell hits 1
DD Encounter, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Express
DD Isis
DD Jupiter, Shell hits 1

Well, I managed that one, and Kongo sunk as a result, so not bad. When surface combat happens.
No doubt the RN is good at surface combat, but it just strikes me that it's a navy designed for World War 1.

Also the coast of Burma and Malaysia and most of the DEI seems to be poor ground for battleships, lots of airbases suitable for Betties, the Allies have a problem shutting them down with heavy bombers... the major straits are just killing grounds for 21 knot ships. I've bombed and torpedoed the hell out of Jap BBs nosing around there with SPrior, enough to make them think twice, and thats with the naff RDAF+Dutch submarines, Betties would erase those RN BBs from the map. PoW went down to 1 torpedo!

quote:

But you're right, Whole lotta Betty is much to much for any man to handle in 42! So patience is probably the best solution.
Hide the old battlewagons in Karachi until you really, really need them. If Al had em all boxed up there now, I'm not sure how I would have
approached them.

Maybe - hard to tell when you really need them though, isnt it.

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 552

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 12:54:27 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
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From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Yep, that's how you want to go, mano el mano with old Jap battleships. The Kongos were mostly built in Tommy land, fast but poorly armoured.

I wouldn't use the old battleships in the DEI, neither in the Bay of Bengal. I'd move em to Karachi, or even Perth. If needed, I'd gather all US and UK cv's there for a counterstrike. Gawd I felt naken during the invasion of India. Al could have dealt me e mean blow there.....

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 553

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 2:58:20 AM

Tom Hunter

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Joined: 12/14/2004
Status: offline

Eubanana your more right than you realize. Its not just a navy designed for World War I its a navy designed DURING World War I.

The R Class were designed in 1912-14 and finished in 1916 and 17. Same with Repulse. Renown and Warpsite had major refits and are not really WWI ships any more but the R class is a bunch of relics.

3 things make them and the supporting forces dangerous though.

1) Thier torpedos explode in 1942 only 30% of US torpedos explode.
2) They have been at war fighting day and night for 3 years. By 1942 the Warspite has already sunk several German DDs and Italian CAs in big gun combat as well as chased the Italian BBs all over the med and been in numerous surface to air battles.
3) The 15"/42 is one of the best naval guns ever designed. It blows the crap out of everything it hits. There is a lot of good historical evidence for this.

You have to handle them with care but the RN can do serious damage to the Japanese if you can get the right battle. On the other hand if the Japanese get the battle they want you will lose a lot of ships because you have no AA or speed.

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)

Post #: 554

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 3:05:25 AM

denisonh

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From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

Hre was a good one from a PBEM. Old Brit BBs gave the IJN BCs a bloody nose.....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sabang at 19,41

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 5
BB Haruna, Shell hits 11, on fire
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 3
CA Kumano, Shell hits 2
DD Sagiri, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kamo, Shell hits 2, on fire

Allied Ships
BB Warspite, Shell hits 4
BB Ramilles
CL Enterprise
CL Emerald, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Vendetta
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Scout, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Decoy, Shell hits 1
DD Foxhound

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Sabang at 19,41

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 2
BB Haruna, Shell hits 14, on fire, heavy damage
BB Hyuga, Shell hits 8, on fire, heavy damage
CA Suzuya, Shell hits 4, on fire
CA Kumano, Shell hits 1
DD Sagiri, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kamo, Shell hits 7, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Warspite, Shell hits 5
BB Ramilles, Shell hits 2, on fire
CL Enterprise
CL Emerald, Shell hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Vendetta, Shell hits 1
DD Van Ghent, on fire
DD Decoy
DD Foxhound

Also had an engagement where the Repulse sank the Takao (of course, she sank under LBA attacks the following day)

If you get the right situation, the IJN can be handed a setback early on by the RN!

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 555

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 3:17:47 AM

herbieh

Posts: 804
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline

Against wobbly I ran into the british BBs, and got severly smacked, if anything the bit of game he played with me showed he'd learnt many lessons from this game ( but not how to curb aggression

)

_____________________________

Big seas, Fast ships, life tastes better with salt

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 556

RE: 2nd Naval battle - Tjilitjap - 3/3/2005 4:05:06 AM

EUBanana

Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline

Anybody played Fighting Steel here? It was SSI, I figure lots of ppl here play SSI games.

The British warships in that were pretty good. I think the British destroyers were the best of all, in fact, the US DDs in particular were worthless due to dire torpedoes. British cruisers with torpedoes were nice as well. (US BBs were the best, I thought)

But thats a game that was purely ship-to-ship surface combat.

(in reply to herbieh)

Post #: 557

Battle of Karachi - the PoW is sunk! - 3/3/2005 7:35:22 PM

PzB74

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From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Let me present a 100% fresh engagegemt between Jap and UK battleships gentlemen

After trying to intercept the allusive British Fleet for several days, we finally succeeded! The damaged PoW was escorted by
2 cruisers and 5 destroyers. Not a match for 5 IJN battlewagons, 1 cruiser and 9 destroyers. Surprise was achieved and huge shells
were soon seen to be crashing into the last British battleship in the East!

The PoW fought bravely, but was hit repeatedly by torpedoes - no less than 7 long lances struck home! The Murakumo alone scored 3 hits, but the
mortally wounded ship turned all of its 10 14" guns on her and blew her out of the water. 4 British destroyers were also sunk by a combination of shells and torpedoes. The PoW was also hit by more than a dozen 14 and 16" shells - only a single 14" hit the Kongo. Damage was limited.

Night Time Surface Combat at 21,4

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 5
BB Haruna, Shell hits 2
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato
BB Fuso, Shell hits 3
CA Mikuma, Shell hits 5
DD Yukikaze
DD Yudachi
DD Hibiki
DD Fubuki
DD Murakumo, Shell hits 9, and is sunk *magazine explodes*
DD Uranami
DD Sagiri
DD Ushio
DD Tachikaze

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 38, Torpedo hits 7, on fire, heavy damage
CA Exeter, Shell hits 4, on fire
CL Danae, Shell hits 1, heavy damage
DD Whipple, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
DD Encounter, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
DD Fortune
DD Nestor, Shell hits 10, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Nizam, Shell hits 13, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

A follow up engagement also took place: a large transport TF with only 2 small msw's as escorts fled in all directions!
It's always extremely difficult to sink transports....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat at 21,4

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo
BB Haruna
BB Kirishima
BB Nagato
BB Fuso
CA Mikuma
DD Yukikaze
DD Yudachi
DD Hibiki
DD Fubuki
DD Uranami
DD Sagiri
DD Ushio
DD Tachikaze

Allied Ships
MSW Agra, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
MSW Patna
TK Empire Unity, Shell hits 2
AK Empire Rennie
AK Empire Barracuda
AK Empire Homer, Shell hits 9, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
AK Empire Launcelot, Shell hits 17, and is sunk
AK Empire Adur
TK Empire Marvell
AK Empire Taw
TK Francol, Shell hits 6, on fire
AK Jalapalaka, Shell hits 3, on fire
TK Pleiodon
AK St. Quentin, Shell hits 2, on fire
AK Shinai
AK Soochow
AK Tai Sang
AK Beatrice
AK Ban Ho Guan, Shell hits 1
AK Belawan
AK Lematang
AK Meroendoeng
AK Pasir
TK Semiramis
AK Siberoet
AK Silindoeng
AK Sipora
AK Halldor
AK Herleik
AK Ngow Hok
AK Nord
AK Norse Carrier, Shell hits 2
AK Solviken
AK Woolgar
MSW Pieter de Bitter
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 558

The struggle continues! - 3/3/2005 8:08:15 PM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 07/07/42

Surface Combat

The naval battle outside Karachi was presented in the previous post.

Bombardments

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Tjilitjap, at 19,62 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

153 Coastal gun shots fired in defense. - we don't damage any enemy ships or ac. Dissappointing!
Japanese Ships
CL Isuzu
CL Nagara, Shell hits 11
CL Naka
CA Myoko, Shell hits 12
CA Chokai, Shell hits 4

Allied ground losses:
153 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Combat

Again we hit Ahmadabad and Tjilitjap with night bombing attacks. A few enemy planes were destroyed, but otherwise
business as usual. The new night bombing routines are working, it's very difficult to hit ships in port now - at least compared to what it used to be.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Bandoeng , at 19,61

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 30
Ki-21 Sally x 52

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged

Allied ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
All Ki-21 Sally bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Tjilitjap , at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2 - argh
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 20

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
P-40E Warhawk x 17

Japanese aircraft losses - we loose a dozen naval bombers today
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed
G3M Nell: 7 destroyed, 5 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 16 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40E Warhawk: 1 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 7000 feet
3 x G3M Nell bombing at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 21st Mixed Brigade, at 22,66

Allied aircraft - Wobbly has moved his ac further south. Tomorrow we bomb Madion

Hudson I x 12
Beaufort V-IX x 27
A-20B Boston x 14
B-25C Mitchell x 21

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
138 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Aircraft Attacking:
All bombers bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 17,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 35
G4M1 Betty x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships - this TF is located just outside of Tjilitjap. Both ships are sunk
DD Mustin, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AK Mormacrio, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
All G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Rossel Island at 58,97
Interesting - my 9 Betties at Rabaul finds enemy tankers just south of GG.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
G4M1 Betty x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships - unfortuately we didn't score any hits. 2 subs are shadowing the enemy convoy
TK Richmond
TK Topila

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Rossel Island at 58,97
A second strike also fails to score any hits. I've moved a small bomber unit to Rabaul
in order to project a little air power in the area.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
G4M1 Betty x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
AK Liloa

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground Combat

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 139492 troops, 866 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 78857 troops, 468 guns, 825 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 3 - reduce to 3 my a$$

Allied engineers will all be shot on VI day (Victory in India:)

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)

Japanese ground losses:
848 casualties reported
Guns lost 26
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses: 3 times as heavy losses, this can't possible last!
2564 casualties reported
Guns lost 65
Vehicles lost 14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Malang

Allied Deliberate attack - once again it becomes clear that Marines isn't a match for Imperial Stormtroopers (Al's going to complain about this one, read my lips!-)

Attacking force 18089 troops, 156 guns, 6 vehicles

Defending force 4809 troops, 59 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese ground losses:
69 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
56 casualties reported
Guns lost 3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at 26,11

Japanese Deliberate attack - an indian regiment is driven into Dehli. We new take up position between the troops that are retreating from Lucknow and the city.
Al will have to cross a river and fight his way in - and 160000 troops will be breathing down his neck..!

Attacking force 7028 troops, 69 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 6830 troops, 89 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
113 casualties reported
Guns lost 3

Allied ground losses:
40 casualties reported
Guns lost

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Situation Report

What a glorious day

I feel sorry for Wobbly, think I've grown addicted to this daily confidence boost!

India

The victory outside Karachi wasn't complete. The Exeter took a few damaging 8" hits, but got away. So did most of the enemy transports.
I've also spotted a large cruiser division - heading for Bombay? I'm evacuating the port and sending the battleships home. The TF has been split in two, the Kongo - already damaged in a torpedo strike - took a 14" hit and drew on some water - slowing it down to 19kts.

A smaller TF will move into Karachi tomorrow to finish cripples and try to strike retreating Allied ships.

In Ahmadabad the life and death battle continues. Wobbly keeps on pooring more units in. I'm going to try to drop some paras into the base below
Rawalpindi. Didn't spot any troops here today. I'm not overly worried - in a few weeks another 160000 men will surge into the town and vanquish the
defenders. As long as I can keep the forts down I'm satisfied.

The march towards Dimapur has begun: tomorrow we assault a covering force just below Asansol. There are many tanks here, probably well dug in, so it'll take a few days to dislodge them.

Java

The daytime strike against Tjilitjap was sent off without an escort..well 2 Zeros was far from enough anyway!
I've now evacuated all ac and ships from Batavia - 30k enemy troops arrived today. Afraid we don't have anything to resist them with. There is 40k supplies, but no
fuel here.

The Yamato will reach Singapore tomorrow, 47 sys damage and a few fires are still raging.

I'm going to try to send base units and a SNLF unit to Bali - it's a size 3 af - and I want a base close to Java.
30k combat troops have arrived off Tarakan. I also got 2 brigades in Palembang and Kendari + a regiment in Singapore.
It's possible to release another couple of units from Rabaul and Kwajalein. Then we got a sizeable force to send back to Java, I think it is possible to
split the American defenders and defeat them. The full 2nd Marine Div and supportive units failed to even get a 1-1 odds at Malang today. If they only could hold..

Another important spotting was made: Enemy battleships were spotted not far from my carriers. I've ordered a high speed dash towards Perth.
I'm not sure I'll be able to catch up with them, but we'll give it a try.

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 559

RE: The struggle continues! - 3/3/2005 8:20:10 PM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline

Damn i feel sorry for wobbly. Even worse it seems like he has put his head into the noose by invading java and I was one of the main advocates for invading java in the first place..

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 560

RE: The struggle continues! - 3/3/2005 11:16:30 PM

duckenf

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: London, UK
Status: offline

You are getting a daily confidence boost, but if you can't get auto-victory and Wobbly will come back and have 2+ years of confidence boosting for himself. Yamato with 47 SYS damage and in Singapore for repairs? I'm sure Wobbly would have preferred to sink her, but that can't be too bad -- Yamato is out of action for months now and by the time she's back Corsairs will be in the air.

Your airforce is shot to hell and the allies get starting pilots better than you can train. And in large numbers. If your vicotry in India doesn't make auto-victory that is a major problem because the allies will be back.

What is the current VP line-up? You've had a lot of kills in the Java Sea (very good!), but lost a lot of aircraft, too. Is it at 4-1 or 3-1 in VPs? Even 2-1 doesn't help you these days. Still, you are commended to still be on the offensive in July 1942 - I'd say you owe it all to an extremely ambitious, and well rewarded, amphibious invasion of India. Future Allied players will have a lot to learn from that manuever!

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 561

The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 1:55:10 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Imperial Headquarters in Tokyo has received a message from Allied Supreme Command and invited us to discuss terms.

Our claims are: To keep all of our current posessions and take over control of India.
The Allied expeditionary force will have to leave Java within 3 weeks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was very sorry to hear that Al wanted to call it quits today, but I understand him and has told him that he can do so whenever he wants to.
Many mean blows have been delivered, and India has all but fallen. The Allied hold on Java will then become teneous at best. The losses I've suffered
lately will still make it very difficult to achieve an autovictory. If the Allies can score only 2-3 or 4000 more points over the next 5 months, it will become alll but impossible.

I've asked Al to think about it for another day. Perhaps our peace terms aren't acceptable after all!?

Anyway: I'd hate to quit this game just a few months before the possible culmination of my long coveted goal - the conquest of India.
I might be interested in taking on a replacement player. Either to play until a decision has been reached in India (1/1-43 at the latest) - or to take this great
conflict to its final conclusion.

I've also offered Al another game, but I do feel that he needs a break just now.

I must say that I've never enjoyed any game more than this one, and I'd like to thank Al for making this into a very enjoyable journey. (For me at least

)
He has played a great game, and I've enjoyed both his honesty and great sense of humor!

Salute

< Message edited by PzB -- 3/4/2005 1:00:19 PM >

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to duckenf)

Post #: 562

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 2:11:15 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

I might be interested in taking on a replacement player. Either to play until a decision has been reached in India (1/1-43 at the latest) - or to take this great
conflict to its final conclusion.

I'd be interested in trying it as it stands. (One of my favorite all time war games was the old Strategy and Tactics Vietnam War game, with me being the Viet Kong - I always loved guerilla war.

)

My only question is what version are you running at? I've got 1.40 running and I want to go to 1.50 once it eventually comes out. Are you at 1.40?

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 563

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 2:17:00 AM

PzB74

Posts: 5076
Joined: 10/3/2000
From: No(r)way
Status: offline

Thx for the offer David! We're playing with V1.4 now, upgraded from V1.2?

< Message edited by PzB -- 3/4/2005 1:19:11 PM >

_____________________________

"The problem in defense is how far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without"
- Dwight D. Eisenhower

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 564

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 2:42:41 AM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

Wob joins the ranks of us vanquished by the Norwegian devil

Who will be the next victim......

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to PzB74)

Post #: 565

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 3:13:22 AM

byron13

Posts: 1589
Joined: 7/27/2001
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

I might be interested in taking on a replacement player. Either to play until a decision has been reached in India (1/1-43 at the latest) - or to take this great
conflict to its final conclusion.

I'd be interested in trying it as it stands. (One of my favorite all time war games was the old Strategy and Tactics Vietnam War game, with me being the Viet Kong - I always loved guerilla war. )

My only question is what version are you running at? I've got 1.40 running and I want to go to 1.50 once it eventually comes out. Are you at 1.40?

Dave Baranyi

Please do. I'd love to see this continued. The next six months will not be fun, but you can prevail. PzB, you wouldn't stand a chance against the green Soviet toad cosmonaut thing - whatever Dave's picture is.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 566

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 3:46:43 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

I might be interested in taking on a replacement player. Either to play until a decision has been reached in India (1/1-43 at the latest) - or to take this great
conflict to its final conclusion.

I'd be interested in trying it as it stands. (One of my favorite all time war games was the old Strategy and Tactics Vietnam War game, with me being the Viet Kong - I always loved guerilla war. )

My only question is what version are you running at? I've got 1.40 running and I want to go to 1.50 once it eventually comes out. Are you at 1.40?

Dave Baranyi

Please do. I'd love to see this continued. The next six months will not be fun, but you can prevail. PzB, you wouldn't stand a chance against the green Soviet toad cosmonaut thing - whatever Dave's picture is.

Nan ja kore wa?! Keroro Gunsou (Sergent Frog) is a bonafide alien invader who is actively involved with conquering Japan on a weekly basis.

You can get more info on Keroro (if you can read Japanese) at his official website at:

http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/anime/keroro/

Dave Baranyi

(Who hasn't yet figured out how to import a Turn_A Gundam into the game...

)

(in reply to byron13)

Post #: 567

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 3:56:39 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

OK Dave, I went to that website and actually watched the 30-second video, in Japanese, of Sargeant Frog. I'm not gettin' that 30 seconds back, dude. :) Seriously, it was kinda fun, given that it was completely unintelligible to me.

Anyway, I'd also love to see a continuation of this game.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 568

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 4:15:40 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

OK Dave, I went to that website and actually watched the 30-second video, in Japanese, of Sargeant Frog. I'm not gettin' that 30 seconds back, dude. :) Seriously, it was kinda fun, given that it was completely unintelligible to me.

Anyway, I'd also love to see a continuation of this game.

That's actually the preview for this coming Satuday's episode. (I think that it will be episode 48.) I watch digital downloads of the weekly broadcasts, then order the region 2 DVDs when they come out. (I've been studying Japanese for around 7 years and I find watching Japanese TV and movies a fun way to give myself listening comprehension practice.)

PzB and I are discussing a resumption of hostilities. I've got permission from William Lyon Mackenzie King (and his dead mother) to take over all Pacific commands. (King has made a deal to let FDR have exclusive use of a northern Ontario fishing lodge where Elenor won't find him and his "aide" in exchange for letting "Johnny Canuck" take over command.)

We'll keep you posted.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 569

RE: The struggle continues? - 3/4/2005 6:14:26 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Apologies for a somewhat off-topic question for Dave: is Japanese a difficult language to learn? I spent a week or so there a few years ago and was surprised at how heavily I had to lean on my "restaurant Japanese" to get around. Is it possible to teach oneself to read or understand? I'm pretty good with languages -- French and Russian anyway -- so I'm curious.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 570

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