RE: July 10 - Death From the Skies

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RE: July 10 - Death From the Skies - 3/6/2005 2:48:30 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Hi Wobbly, nice to hear from you.

I have a very specific approach to supply management in this game - I deliberately set up fuel and supplies in quantities sufficient to sustain extended campaigns in any given theater, both naval and air. A decent sized air combat TF matched with a decent sized surface combat TF will use up fuel in no time. And I like to be in a position to run continuous operations by multiple task forces. This means that I will be sucking 7-10K worth of fuel out of a base every time I send a pair of my fleets in. Thus I always try to maintain at least 25K of fuel at any base along my main Hawaii to Australia travel base and much more at forward operating bases. You have fuel in key locations but not in enough key locations to sustain full-speed travel between fueling stops and sustain operations at the end. BTW - your TFs will always operate more efficiently, which means fight better, if they have refueled and rested before going into an operation. This means that a TF that fights at the "outer green ring" isn't quite as effective as the one that has been sitting around and traveling less. The translates into "rewards" for the side that can set up "traps" rather than for the side that rushes everywhere.

I also find that my bombers will fly more regularly if I keep more than 20K with of supplies at a given base. Sure, they will fly with less, but they will do it less frequently and frequency is what I want in a bombing campaign. I also don't generally like to use my bombers against ground troops - I don't get as much bang-for-the-buck against ground troops as I do against airports, port and ships. When I'm bombing airports and ports my opponent's engineers are wasting their time and supplies repairing things rather than sending the supplies "up the road". And every hit on a ship slows the ship and there is always a chance for serious damage. The absolutely critical thing about Karachi is that it effectively provides me with infinite supply, so therefore I want to be able to use that supply for all that it is worth. And that means raining death upon the juiciest targets that PzB provides. <g>

As far as naval fights go - torpedoes are the biggest weapon in the game, so I try to make certain that my DDs and torpedo-equipped Brit ships get into battle. And the game mechanics are such that smaller surface combat TFs have a better chance of doing damage than one big TF. Also, one thing that I learned way-back-when in playing Pacwar that has continued to work through UV and now WitP is that multiple TFs defend a port better than one TF. This is particularly important in WitP because the TF that "loses" the battle teleports out of the hex most of the time and often doesn't stick around again to fight some more, even if it only has minor losses. So by having multiple combat TFs if one gets hammered and leaves there are more to fight the next round. And remember, the attacker is using up ammunition and preparation points with each fight. Therefore the attacker has less to fight with each round. The basic lesson here is that not only should you defend with multiple TFs; you should also attack with multiple TFs.

As far as Java goes - things are going the way that I want and as best as could be asked for. You wanted to distract PzB and you have. But I don't have to fight the remaining Japanese troops on Java to achieve the objective there. The real point was not to conquer Java but to force PzB to bring serious forces to that area and away from India. That has worked really well. I just don't want to waste any of my troops fighting Japanese troops that I don't have to fight. The game mechanics favor Japanese troops too much on the defensive. So I'll let them be because I much prefer to save those supply points to maintain a vigorous air attack on his ships. I've already started to hit his transports and cruiser forces in the region. He can't bring them in with impunity now. And if he brings in the KB I'll happily fight it with LBA - he can't be everywhere at once.

It will be interesting to see what PzB does. Will he try to be "everything, everywhere" and lose his opportunity for maximization of force, or will he gamble everything in one theater and allow me to set up to attack elsewhere with impunity? (I'm always the optimist. <g>)

Hey, I haven't "won" the war yet, but I'm having fun and I'm glad that I had a chance to get in here.

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 31

RE: July 10 - Death From the Skies - 3/6/2005 6:54:24 PM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

It will be interesting to see what PzB does. Will he try to be "everything, everywhere" and lose his opportunity for maximization of force, or will he gamble everything in one theater and allow me to set up to attack elsewhere with impunity? (I'm always the optimist. <g>)

I still think you are fighting without knowing what�s going on...
PzB has a one-heading-strategy: finish India and isolate Java so he can then invade and destroy your forces in that doomed island. This means auto-victory. I don�t know what you�re going to do to avoid this.

Attack elsewhere???. With what?. Where?? Your forces are committed in Java, Lunga or Tarawa. It is still 1942 so you don�t have a pletora of CVs and your surface forces are still quite weak against his betties. What are your plans for the offensive? Invade Kwajalein?...Come on!

I think (correct me wobbly if I�m wrong) that the point of invading Java was to distract Jap forces but ALSO to get a base to bomb Jap. oil and supply sources in DEI and Borneo...

Remember that these are only comments!!!

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 32

July 11 - Fuel! - 3/6/2005 10:25:33 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Well, PzB is starting to get a little more cautious about my capabilities to inflict damage on his forces and is responding appropriately. This means that while I was able to bomb more of his ships, the toll has increased dramatically for me:

Day Air attack on TF, near Bombay at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 30

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 6
Beaufort V-IX x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 2 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 7 destroyed, 10 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 1

Day Air attack on TF, near Bombay at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 5
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 15

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 36

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 25 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Kirishima, Bomb hits 7
CA Mikuma, Bomb hits 1

Day Air attack on TF, near Bombay at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 30

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 3
Beaufort I x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
Beaufort I: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato

After all that, I'll have to rest more of my bomber forces. This turn I will still send other bombers in to hit the airfield at Bombay. I'm also reorganizing my air groups as well as fixing up air leaders. In too many cases I have lousy leaders or mis-applied leaders (transport leaders heading fighter squadrons, etc.) Fortunately, I have plenty of political points to spend on leader changes. Here's hoping that the leaders stay the way that I set them.

The most worrying thing about this turn was the attack on Ahmadabad:

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 138791 troops, 539 guns, 1 vehicles

Defending force 86762 troops, 291 guns, 773 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese ground losses:
1974 casualties reported
Guns lost 37

Allied ground losses:
3102 casualties reported
Guns lost 72
Vehicles lost 16

PzB did reduce the fortification levels this time. I've pulled out a couple more "spent" units and sent them on various roads in order to "clear" the roads from Japanese "control". I want to be in control of my retreat directions. PzB has also finally moved a unit into Delhi, which restrains my ability to move my other troops into it. Oh well, just a few more days until my next major land unit arrives in Karachi.

Things calmed down a lot around Java. I am consolidating gains and repairing bases. My best bases have significant damage and I need to get them repaired if I am going to be able to use them to their fullest potential. One of the reasons to pull back the ground troops into the bases is that the ground troops also have engineers and every engineer helps when it comes to repairing bases.

PzB had his ships retreat out of my bomber range, but his LBA did hit some more of my cripples offshore:

Day Air attack on TF at 18,64

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
G3M Nell x 6
G4M1 Betty x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 4 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 9 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Portland, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CL Leander, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
APD Sands, heavy damage

It also appears that at least one of PzB's carrier groups is heading towards Java, so I've redirected the various cripple TFs back towards port - I'm hoping to be able to engage PzBs carriers with LBA and I need some means to "entice" him.

In the meanwhile, I am slowly getting transports to bases that contain fuel and supplies, so I have started the long process of trying to redistribute fuel and supplies to where they are needed. In the meanwhile, PzB is doing nothing in the South and Central Pacific other than Recon my bases, so that is allowing me to restock and reorganize. I am hoping that sooner rather than later I can start to let PzB "enjoy" the effect of my long range bombers darkening the sky over his bases.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 33

RE: July 10 - Death From the Skies - 3/6/2005 10:27:27 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

I think (correct me wobbly if I�m wrong) that the point of invading Java was to distract Jap forces but ALSO to get a base to bomb Jap. oil and supply sources in DEI and Borneo...

True, and if PzB doesn't give me naval targets to hit I'll be more than happy to bomb his airfields, ports, industries and so on. So if he attacks he has to take losses, and if he doesn't attack I attack him. Simple stuff...

Thanks -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 34

July 12 - Air war - 3/7/2005 4:08:35 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Things are settling down further now as the initial shock that I gave PzB wears off and we get down to "brute force and ignorance", at least on my part. <L> PzB is being more careful with his naval forces so the main action continues to be the air war. My attack on Bombay's air fields was hard and bloody. I put more escorts in place and attacked with tactical bombers in order to give my longer range bombers more rest:

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 16

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 6
Beaufort I x 5
Beaufort V-IX x 16
P-40E Warhawk x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 6 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 4 destroyed
H8K Emily: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 7 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 5 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 10 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
162 casualties reported

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 9

I'll rest this crowd up this turn and send my "heavies" back in for the first time in a while. PzB is sending a number of his ships out of Bombay harbor - will he go north or south? I'm gradually flooding the region with subs - I don't care if the subs shoot or not as long as they help my air patrols find out what is going on.

In the meanwhile, PzB's LBA couldn't resist going after my cripples that were crawling towards Tjilitjap:

Day Air attack on TF, near Tjilitjap at 19,62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
G3M Nell x 3
G4M1 Betty x 19

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 4
Kittyhawk I x 7
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 32 destroyed
G3M Nell: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 2 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
DD Allen, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
APD Humphreys, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

I'll trade wrecks for that kind of result any time.

PzB has pulled his ships out of range, so my LBA went to the alternate attack:

Day Air attack on Batavia , at 19,59

Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 10
Beaufort V-IX x 20
A-20B Boston x 12
B-25C Mitchell x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 23

Unopposed attacks are "fun" - the boys get practice without anyone shooting back, and this starts to make Batavia less useful and more costly for PzB to hold. My problem is that my airbases on Java are still either damaged, small or both. But as long as PzB sends his bombers after my wrecks and cripples I will continue to get the time to rebuild the airports and repair my planes.

In the meanwhile, PzB continues to bomb my troops in China and the India/Burma border. He even did a small paradrop today. I'll start to cause him headaches in that region soon too.

In Ahmadabad PzB's daily attack reduced the fortification level again, but he continues to take losses, and this time more than me:

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 136213 troops, 476 guns, 2 vehicles

Defending force 83709 troops, 224 guns, 767 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 2)

Japanese ground losses:
2994 casualties reported
Guns lost 33
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
2804 casualties reported
Guns lost 62
Vehicles lost 9

We are both trying to do some maneuvering around each other's positions. With the land movement "mysteries" of this game that is always a chancy thing. But I'm getting closer to getting the Chindits - 2 days to go!

BTW - the Formidable finally made it to port. Unfortunately, the port only had a few "drops" of fuel. But I was able to disband that TF and create a new one, followed by a "sharing of the wine" as I did a "refuel at sea". But I disbanded the TF again. There is only one plane on the Formidable, and I'm hoping that there is some way to get more on it. I certainly can't go off and find them wherever they happen to be on Java, India or Shangra-La.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 35

Painful lesson... - 3/7/2005 4:33:17 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

BTW - here is a good example of why I don't like sending unsupported troops around. Two groups of Allied troops - one combat group and one base force fragment were left on Memboro for some reason. They had no supply and were in generally bad shape. There was no way for them to try to capture the other base on the island. I was hoping to sneak a couple of transports in to take the troops out of there.

Well, before I could PzB, being somewhat of a "compleatist", sent a task force in to land and re-capture the base. Of course, without any supplies, my troops were in a hopeless situation:

Ground combat at Memboro

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 2961 troops, 14 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 676 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 96 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Memboro base !!!

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Allied ground losses:
1019 casualties reported

Ouch. That's not how I want to "distract" PzB...

Meanwhile, in other locals, I continue with my plan to make certain that everyone and everything is well supplied, well supported and not isolated.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 36

RE: Painful lesson... - 3/7/2005 6:37:39 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

They were the remains of the units that took the island base south of them. They were used as a stepping stone to get short legged ACs to Java.

it is lost points but remnants of both untis were saved. The airbase unit went to java and the Oz Sparrow force still resides in Derby.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 37

ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/7/2005 7:02:08 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

What can I say but, "ugly, ugly, ugly"�

PzB caught my ships that had met at the edge of the map to refuel. Because I had no fuel I had to rendezvous with some transports that Wobbly had sent down the map edge from India. PzB didn't get fooled by my cripples and sent two carrier TFs to the map edge while placing the third to the south of Java to cut off any escape in that direction. Thus this result:

Day Air attack on TF at 1,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 44
D3A Val x 46
B5N Kate x 77

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
B5N Kate: 5 destroyed, 23 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Voyager, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Helm
CA Vincennes, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
DD Mahan
CL Sumatra, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
DD Blue, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Litchfield, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Drayton
DD Porter, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dale, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Along with this result:

Day Air attack on TF at 1,68

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Vincennes, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x E13A1 Jake attacking at 100 feet

and this one:

Day Air attack on TF at 3,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
A6M3 Zero x 3
D3A Val x 21
B5N Kate x 49

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 1 damaged
B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 38 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Pensacola, heavy damage
BB Mississippi, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage
BB New Mexico, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL St. Louis
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1

Here's another:

Day Air attack on TF at 3,66

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 10
B5N Kate x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet

And more:

Day Air attack on TF at 3,66

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CA Chester

And there's room for this too:

Day Air attack on TF at 1,68

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42
D3A Val x 19

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AK Benkoelen
AK Elout, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AK Princess of Negros, Bomb hits 3, on fire

Now, for all of those kind folks who told me that I should have left my ships in port, take a look at this attack:

Day Air attack on Madioen , at 21,64

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 37
A6M3 Zero x 18
Ki-21 Sally x 68
Ki-49 Helen x 22

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-25C Mitchell: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
Beaufort V-IX: 8 destroyed, 7 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 4 destroyed, 5 damaged
A-20B Boston: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 29

My planes aren't flying because there aren't enough engineers to fix the runways, and that's even more true now.

Fundamentally, what this shows is why you do not go off on a "suicide" attack far from your supply lines - particularly if you don't have an overwhelming force advantage.

BTW - do you care to guess what sort of "reinforcements" I have nearby in Oz - assuming that I had ships to put them on, and could sail those ships past the various carrier groups in the Indian Ocean? Leftovers from the DEI - the same Dutch and British and Australian garbage planes that can't hold back the Japanese in the first place.

The Java operation was a deathtrap from the moment that Wobbly decided not to take Timor first. The only good thing is that PzB didn't send his carriers south - this way I did get out my remaining three carriers and three 20-knot BBs. BTW - Those ships are STILL a couple of days away from any fuel.

On the other hand, the airforce in India is still doing a good job under tough conditions:

Day Air attack on Bombay , at 20,10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 17
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 21

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 6 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
301 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 9

But Ahmadabad continues to weaken:

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 133480 troops, 425 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 81178 troops, 165 guns, 761 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese ground losses:
2020 casualties reported
Guns lost 12

Allied ground losses:
2014 casualties reported
Guns lost 22
Vehicles lost 9

I've been slowly pulling back my better planes and weaker troops. Finally this turn the Chindits showed up in Karachi as did another engineering group. But my defense in the Northeast is struggling as Japanese units continue to pop up out of the "woodwork" despite the fact that I appear to control the roads (using the "w" key).

As I wrote to PzB when I sent back my response to this turn - he will never catch me without fuel and supplies again.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 38

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/7/2005 7:04:07 PM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

I have no words to describe the disaster.

It is painful. I dont want to be the stupid-smart guy but it was obvious that this had to happen. SENDING your TF out of your Java CAP was a MISTAKE and you paid for that.
I�m not saying that keeping them there (in Java) had been their salvation but they would have been more protected, and they would have a chance to escape AFTER the KB had retreated.

Just look what your CAP did to his fighters and bombers just two turns ago!.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
G3M Nell x 3
G4M1 Betty x 19

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 4
Kittyhawk I x 7
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 32 destroyed
G3M Nell: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 2 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

I ask you, I beg you to take care of your ships and troops!!! Or you will be court-matialed

. Roosvelt is very dissapointed with your command!...Noth America needs victories, they need a Midway!

P.S: It is important to retake Memboro so Java can receive air replacements. Please take those bases at Java before PzB reinforce the garrisons there: this would be the end of the Java adventure.

Now these are not comments but letters from the navy/army men that are dying everyday

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 39

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/7/2005 7:38:53 PM

duckenf

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: London, UK
Status: offline

what's the current VP tally?

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 40

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/7/2005 11:25:16 PM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: toraq

I have no words to describe the disaster. It is painful. I dont want to be the stupid-smart guy but it was obvious that this had to happen. SENDING your TF out of your Java CAP was a MISTAKE and you paid for that.
I�m not saying that keeping them there (in Java) had been their salvation but they would have been more protected, and they would have a chance to escape AFTER the KB had retreated.

Just look what your CAP did to his fighters and bombers just two turns ago!.

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 26
G3M Nell x 3
G4M1 Betty x 19

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 4
Kittyhawk I x 7
P-40B Tomahawk x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 10

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 32 destroyed
G3M Nell: 2 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 2 destroyed
P-40B Tomahawk: 4 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 2 destroyed

I ask you, I beg you to take care of your ships and troops!!! Or you will be court-matialed. Roosvelt is very dissapointed with your command!...Noth America needs victories, they need a Midway!

P.S: It is important to retake Memboro so Java can receive air replacements. Please take those bases at Java before PzB reinforce the garrisons there: this would be the end of the Java adventure.

Now these are not comments but letters from the navy/army men that are dying everyday

Don't berate David too much for the situation he is in. I after all did put the ships where they were. But I knew I had a fuel issue and was therefore never planning to march all of them out like David has. I also intended holding Java, so our plans were a bit mutually inconclusive.

His most valid point is that the Java operation was thrown together without enough planning. If I had not done it then we would still have a viable fleet, functional carier squadron and India would have fallen - much like what is happening anyway.

David is trying to extricate from a pretty awful situation.

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 41

Situation mid-July - 3/8/2005 1:36:33 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Here is more detailed description of the situation as of mid-July 1942 in the areas that cover my supply lines to support fighting in the DEI, Burma, India and China. I am ignoring the Soviet Union and will cover the theatres that have active conflicts at a later date when things become clearer. So what I am discussing here are essentially the forces that I have available to defend the frontier as well as to provide support to the embattled areas. I am not listing the various transports that I have at sea - I have supply and fuel moving around but no troops at this time.

West Coast (excluding fixed forces) - troops and planes currently assigned to "West Coast" are designated as (WC)

San Diego:
Troops: 1 CD, 2 AA, 1 Base Force (BF)
AC: 1 P-36A FG (WC), 1 PBY PS
Ships: none

Los Angeles:
Troops: 1 CD, 1BF
AC: 2 P-36A FG, 1 A-20B BG (all WC)
Ships: 1 damaged DD

San Francisco:
Troops: 3 ART (WC), 1 CD, 6 BF (some fragments), 1 Eng Rgt, 2 Av Rgt, 3 Sea Bees (1 frag), 2 EAB, 2HQ, 5 RCT (1 WC), 1 INF Rgt, 1 INF Div (WC) - Total assault strength (TAS) = 1415
AC: 1 P-39D FG (WC), 1 PBY PS
Ships: 1 damaged BB, 1 damaged CL

Seattle:
Troops: 1 ART, a BF (WC), 1 Eng Rgt (WC), 1 INF Div (WC), 1 INF RCT - TAS = 583
AC: 1 B-25C BG (WC), 1 P-40B FG (WC), 1 F4F-4 FS
Ships: 1 damaged BB

Canada:

Vancouver:
Troops: 1 AA, 1 BF, 1 HQ, 2 CDN BDE (all Canadian)
AC: 3 PBY PS, 1 Kittyhawk FS, 1 Hurricane FS, 2 Blenheim I BS
Supply: 77K
Fuel: 180K

Prince Rupert:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 CDN BDE
AC: 2 Kittyhawk FS, 1 Hurricane FS, 1 Wellington BS, 1 PBY PS
Ships: 1 MSW
Supply: 68K
Fuel: 15K

Alaska:

Juneau:
Troops: 1 BF
Supply = 1 K
Fuel = 3K

Sitka:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply = 5K
Fuel = 3K

Anchorage:
Troops: 2 AA, 1 CD, 1 BF, 1 EAB, 1 HQ, 1 RCT, TAS = 136
AC: 1 P-36A FS, 1 B-18A BS
Supply = 8K
Fuel = 153K

Kodiak:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 RCT, TAS = 127
AC: 1 PBY PS
Ships: 1 PT
Supply = 14K
Fuel = 33K

Dutch Harbor:
Troops: 2 BF, 1 EAB, 1 HQ, 1 RCT, TAS = 127
AC: 1 B-18A BS, 1 PBY PS
Ships: 1 MSW
Supply = 14K
Fuel = 33K

Nome:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 RCT, TAS = 126
Supply = 1K
Fuel = 28K

Eastern Pacific:

Pearl Harbor:
Troops: 5 AA, 4 ART, 1 CD, 4 BF, 1 AV RGT, 1 EAB, 2 INF Div, 1 RCT, 1 HQ, TAS = 900
AC: 1 B-25C BG, 2 B-17E BG, 2 P-39D FS, 2 PBY PS
Ships: 2BB, 1 damaged CA, 1 CL, 1 CLAA, 2 DD, 1 DMS, 1 PG - offshore: 1 CVE, 2 DD
Supply: 236K
Fuel: 700K

Hilo:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 AA
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply: 2K
Fuel: 1K

Lahina:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 PB2Y PS
Supply = 4K
Fuel = 39K

Midway:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 CD, 1/3 INF Div, TAS = 167
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply: 2K
Fuel: 15K

Johnson:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 EAB, 1/3 INF Div, TAS = 126
AC: 1 P-40E FS, 1 PBY PS
Supply: 4K
Fuel: 20K

Palmyra:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 B-26B BG, 1 PBY PS
Supply: 2K
Fuel: 10K

Baker:
Troops: 3 Sea Bees, 1 HQ
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply: 5K
Fuel: 5K

Canton:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply: 6K
Fuel: 9K

Gilberts (Apamana and Makin are under Allied control but unoccupied.):

Tarawa:
Troops: 1 ARM, 1 CD, 1 EAB, 1 BF, 1 Sea Bee, 1 Div, TAS = 400
AC: 1 P-40B FS, 1 A-20B BS, 1 F4F-4 FS, 1 SDB DBS, 1 PBY PS
Supply: 40K
Fuel: 26K

Apamana and Makin are under Allied control but unoccupied.

South Pacific (only the islands with Allied troops)

Pago-Pago:
Troops: 1 ART, 1 CD, 2 BF
AC: 1 P-40B FS, 1 PBY PS
Supply: 7K
Fuel: 27K

Tongatapu:
Troops: 1 BF
Supply: 4K
Fuel: 6K

Suva:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 NZ BDE, TAS = 232
AC: 1 Hudson BS
Supply: 25K
Fuel: 13K

Nandi:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 PBY PS
Supply: 1K
Fuel: 4K

Noumea:
Troops: 1 ENG AV RGT, 2 HQ, 1 NZ BDE, 1 NZ INF Div, TAS = 434
AC: 1 B-17E BG, 2/3 P-40B FG, 1 B-25C BG, 1 B-26B BG, 1 A-20B BS, 1 Beaufort V-IX BS, 1 Hudson BS, 1 C-47 TS, 1 PBY PS
Ships: 1 BB, 1 CL
Supply: 41K
Fuel: 21K

Luganville:
Troops: 1 BF, 1/3 INF Div, TAS = 148
AC: 1 PBY PS
Ships: 5 CA, 3 CL, 2 DD
Supply: 2K
Fuel: 21K

Lunga (Tulagi and Tassaforonga are held but unoccupied):
Troops: 1 BF, 1 EAB, 1 USMC Raiders, 1 USMC Paras, 1 RCT, 1 Marine Div, TAS = 571
AC: 1/3 P-40B FG, 1 F4F-4 FS, 1 SBD DBS
Supply: 6K
Fuel: 0K

Australia & PNG:

Port Moresby (Gili-Gili, Buna & Salamana held by Japan):
Troops: 1 CD, 4 BF, 1 HQ, 3 INF BDE, TAS = 315
AC: 1 B-26B BG, 1 PBY PS, 1 Beaufort BS, 1 Kittyhawk FS
Supply: 37K
Fuel: 0K

Cooktown:
Troops: 2 BF, 1 AV ENG
AC: 1 Hudson flight, 1 Dutch Catalina PS, 1 Beaufort V BS, 1 Wirraway FS, 1 Walrus PS
Supply: 30K
Fuel: 6K

Cairns:
Troops: 3 BF, 1 AV ENG, 1 CAV Div, TAS = 171, on the way by land - 1 CD
AC: 1.5 Beaufort BS, 1 Hudson flight, 1 TIVa fragment, 2 Wirraway FS, 1/2 SBD DBS
Supply: 19K
Fuel: 117K

Townsville:
Troops: 1 CD, 2 BF, 1 AV ENG RGT, 1 HQ, 1 Aust BDE, 1 Aust Div, TAS = 468
AC: 1 B-25C BS fragment, 1 Dutch Hudson BS, 1 Dutch PBY PS, I Hurricane FS, I Wirraway FS
Ships: 1 PG, 1 MSW, 1 AVD
Supply: 8K
Fuel: 50K

Charter Towers:
Troops: 2 BF
AC: 1 Beaufort flight, 1 P-39D FG, 1 Dutch Hudson BS

Rockhampton:
Troops: none (1 Aust Div on the way by road)
AC: none
Ships: 4 MSW, 1 AVD, 1 DD
Supply: 60K
Fuel: 21K

Brisbane:
Troops: 1 CD, 1 AV RGT, 1 Aust Div, TAS = 328, (on the way by road: 1 ART, 1 HQ, 1 Div)
AC: 2 Beaufort flights, 1 Catalina PS, 1 Beaufort BS
Supply: 135K
Fuel: 350K

Newcastle:
Troops: 1 CD
Supply: 11K
Fuel: 3K

Sydney:
Troops: 1 ART, 1 CD, 2 BF, 1 HQ, TAS = 43
AC: 1 Dutch Beaufort flight, 1 Dutch Brewster flight, 1 TIVa flight, 1 Wirraway fragment
Ships: 1 MSW
Supply: 80K
Fuel: 471K

Canberra:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 Wirraway FS

Hobart:
Troops: 1 BF, 2 CD
Supply: 3K
Fuel: 5K

Devonport:
Troops: 1 BF, 1 Aust BDE
AC: 1 Fk51
Supply: 3K
Fuel: 3K

Melbourne:
Troops: 1 CD, 1 BF, 1 CAV Div, TAS = 160
AC: 1 Fk51 flight, 1 Dutch Dakota flight
Supply: 30K
Fuel: 100K

Geelong:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 1 C-47 TS, 1 Fk51 flight
Supply: 11K
Fuel: 3K

Adelaide:
Troops: 1 BF, 2 Aust BDE, TAS = 241
AC: 1 Hudson flight, 1 Wirraway fragment, 1 FK51 flight
Ships: none - offshore by several days: 3BB + 4DD, by several more days: 3CL, 1 CLAA, 3 CV, 3DD (1 CV damaged) - all short on fuel
Supply: 30K
Fuel: 36K

Whyalla:
Supplies: 31K
Fuel: 2K

Perth:
Troops: 2 CD, 1 BF, 1 Aust BDE, TAS = 239
AC: 1 D24K-2 PS, 2 Wirraway FS
Ships: 2 CL, 1 CV (no airplanes), 8DD, all short on fuel, (offshore - transports)
Supplies: 77K
Fuel: 0K

Alice Spring:
Troops: 1 BF
AC: 4 C-47 TS, 1 Lockheed 212 TS

Broom:
Troops: 1 BF, 2 Bn, TAS = 115
AC: 1 Brewster 339D flight, 1 Catalina PS, 1 Hudson BS, 1 PBY PS
Supply: 2K
Fuel: 0K

Derby:
Troops: 2 BF, 1 Aust BDE, 1 BN, TAS = 115
AC: 1 P-39D FG, 1 CW-21B flight, 1 Empire PS, 1 Hurricane FS
Ships: 1 damaged CL, 1 MSW
Supply: 8K
Fuel: 15K

Wyndham:
Troops: 2 Aust Arm RGT, 1 BF, 1 Aust Div, TAS = 473
AC: 1 Martin 139 BS, 1 Hawk 75A flight, 1 Brewster 339D FS, 1 Do24K PS
Supplies: 5K
Fuel: 5K

Darwin:
Troops: 1 AA, 1 CD, 6 BF (including fragments), 1 HQ, 1 Dutch Bn, 1 Aust Bde, 1 Aust Div + 1 fragment, TAS = 555
AC: 2 B-17E BG, 1 B-17E BS, 2 Dutch Beaufort BS, 1 Hawk 75A FS, 1 CW-21B FS, 1 Do24K PS
Supplies: 25K
Fuel: 47K

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 42

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 1:41:55 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

P.S: It is important to retake Memboro so Java can receive air replacements. Please take those bases at Java before PzB reinforce the garrisons there: this would be the end of the Java adventure.

You need to look at the reality of what I have available and where, so take close look at my post about what I have available. If I had the resources to take Timor, I would have. Also, if my ships had enough fuel, they wouldn't have been caught by the KB.

BTW - what makes you think that the KB would have retired anyway? I have nothing in the theater that can oppose them. You can't fight with carriers that have no fuel - your planes won't launch. PzB will take out the ships in Java at his leisure and there isn't anything I can do about it.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 43

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 1:49:52 AM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Well I�m complaining about how he is losing the ships and the war. It is an awful situation, no doubt about that, but sending your ships to a certain death, it deserves a court martial.

And wobbly, Gen. Marshall is thinking of another court martial. Guess who?. Yes, you are the responsible of the encirclement in Burma, the fall of India, the early destruction of the british fleet, the loss of two CVs, the surprise in Tarawa, the SBD disaster, the isolation of Java, the awful planification of this operation and many more things...

DEFEAT after DEFEAT!!!

You made Roosevelt to stand up again and blame you: "God da*** Gen. Wobbly. You like infamy days!!"

And Prime Minister Sir Winston Chruchill has added "Never in the field of WitP games was so much pain caused by one men to so many allied fanboys"

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 44

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 2:08:41 AM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

BTW - what makes you think that the KB would have retired anyway? I have nothing in the theater that can oppose them. You can't fight with carriers that have no fuel - your planes won't launch. PzB will take out the ships in Java at his leisure and there isn't anything I can do about it

As I said before, it was probable that if you had left your ships in Java they would have been pounded by the KB but AT LEAST you have your CAP there and (as seen in the combat report) they make some damage to the attackers. Maybe his attack would have cost him more planes and time (SURE!).

I was not thinking about your carriers to provide CAP in Java. I was thinking in your land fighters.

quote:

You need to look at the reality of what I have available and where, so take close look at my post about what I have available. If I had the resources to take Timor, I would have. Also, if my ships had enough fuel, they wouldn't have been caught by the KB.

You�re the general. Take the resources from wherever. But, strategically, if you don�t retake that base and invade the rest of Java, you�re toasted. It is easy to win with full of supplies-fuel-aircraft-...But sometimes you have to deal with risks and unfavorable balance.

Look at what PzP did to retake Memboro or whatever the name of the base. He send a FT with a full brigade, without air cover, without big amount of supplies, etc, etc. Why? Because he knew that it is important to have that base!!!
And moreover, maybe it is the only opportunity to retake the offensive with LITTLE resouces (no many japs there still) and HIGH consequences to the battle (JAVA with air replacements)

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 45

Some positive lessons - 3/8/2005 3:11:22 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Okay, rather than focusing on what is going badly (I'll give PzB the pleasure of recounting his successes), let's instead look at what the Allies can do well. For this demonstrates how to set up a proper strategy for the Allied side, and why I emphasize logistics, and the buildup of supplies and bases in a systematic manner.

In the midst of all of the disasters that are occurring, the base at Darwin is a "bright and proud light". Because Wobbly took the time to build up the base, bring in sufficient base forces, bring in lots of supply and bring in B-17s, I can enjoy these sorts of results on a regular basis:

Day Air attack on Amboina, at 39, 73

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 32

No Allied losses

Airbase hits 5
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 24

Day Air attack on Koepang, at 28, 77

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 20

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
227 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Airbase hits 3
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 13

I've been able to do this repeatedly because there are lots of supplies at Darwin, the airbase is big, there are lots of air support troops and once you get an opposing air base damaged it is very difficult to repair it for use again. And remember, both Amboina and Koepang are the nearest level four airbases to Northern Australia. If I allow PzB to open up and use those bases, he can prevent me from getting any ships into any of the four northern ports. If I am to have any hope of salvaging the Java disaster, I must be able to first supply those ports with both supplies and fuel, and then use those ports as bases to send ships into the DEI.

The weakest part of this plan is that I have few other good air groups in northern Australia besides those B-17s. The best "modern" fighter group I have is one large P-39D group. But that one group by itself won't allow me to protect those bases. My challenge over the next couple of game weeks will be to be able to bring some additional decent air power to northern Australia before I start to bring my transport ships going back in.

So when you wonder why I complain when there are only a couple of "K" of supplies or fuel at a given base, remember, my expectation is that I must be able to maintain overwhelming attacks from any forward base, or I won't attack at all. Therefore I insist on having very large supply and fuel stocks at all forward bases, as well as at all way-stations. Having lots of fuel or supply in a few big bases far from the front lines is useless to me.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 46

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 3:13:52 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

Look at what PzP did to retake Memboro or whatever the name of the base. He send a FT with a full brigade, without air cover, without big amount of supplies, etc, etc. Why? Because he knew that it is important to have that base!!!

He did that because he knew that I had nothing in the theater with which to oppose him. He could have sent Crayon Shin-chan in alone and taken the place just by having Shin-chan flash his butt at my starving troops. (If you have to ask, you don't watch enough anime...

)

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 47

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 5:28:33 AM

denisonh

Posts: 2194
Joined: 12/21/2001
From: Upstate SC
Status: offline

A good thing to take away from this Java fiasco is that early in the war (or later in 42 for that matter), getting beyond friendly LBA support is devastatingly BAD for the Allies.

DO NOT OVERSTEP YOUR CAPABILITIES.

I for one never saw the wisdom in Java, and much preferred an drive against Rabaul and/or the surrounding bases. Drive towards the marianas.

That would become that much harder if the Japs finished off India, so as the saying goes "make hay when the sun shines".

Best way to prosecute the Allies before early 43: Strategically conservative, tactically aggressive. Get aggressive where the Japs are not in a place that WILL SERVE YOUR ULTIMATE PURPOSE: bombing the Japs into oblivion.

_____________________________

"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid" -SGT John M. Stryker, USMC

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 48

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 8:19:47 AM

Central Blue

Posts: 695
Joined: 8/20/2004
Status: offline

"For this demonstrates how to set up a proper strategy for the Allied side, and why I emphasize logistics, and the buildup of supplies and bases in a systematic manner."

Exactly right. And if the Japanese decide to run wild in places like India, Russia, or China then any "diversionary" strategy the Allies should employ in the early war years is to shorten the round trip distance between Australia and the U. S. West Coast.

That means Canton Island, Samoa, Fiji, New Caledonia, Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Henderson Field, Baker Island,Tarawa, Majuro, Kwajalein, and Eniwetok.

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 49

One Week of Terror - 3/8/2005 2:21:41 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Okay, I reached a milestone on July 15, 1942 - the first of my TFs from the Java campaign finally reached Adelaide and some fuel and supplies. It was the SC TF with the three 20-knot BBs and some DDs. The fuel supply in Adelaide went from 35K to 27K in one fill-up. The AC TF with the three carriers will dock next. They ought to "drink" just as much. Next in line is a transport TF full of AKs with their fuel levels in the "red". I have never before seen AKs with "red" fuel levels. And there are more of the same on the way. Of course, I am racing more fuel to Adelaide. Only once all my straggler forces are fueled, and Adelaide's fuel and supply levels are brought back up to what I consider reasonable levels, will I next send fuel TFs up to Perth.

Speaking of Perth, PzB did a very smart thing - he sent a sub down there which nailed one of my straggler AKs on the way into port. I decided to take a risk and I've sent back a small ASW TF to see if I can catch that sub. (The DDs had been part of the TF that was escorting the now "toothless" Formidable to Adelaide.

In India the end is getting closer for Ahmadabad. I've started to pull out all remaining planes. PzB will still see the "ac" symbol on the base because I have damaged planes left. I am also still bombing him from Delhi. The good news is that Malir is now a level 2 airfield. So I moved my torpedo bombers to Malir and started to build up the fortifications. The defense of Karachi will be interesting. I have a lot of good planes there, both bombers and fighters. I have "infinite" supply. I have four SC forces. If PzB tries to take it by air or by sea he will take a lot of damage. If he comes by land, I will attempt to bomb him into the stone age and ought to cause plenty of damage too. My intention is to "flood" the area between Malir and Ahmadabad with retreating troops, just to slow his advance. He will eventually bring massive forces to bear, but it will cost him.

I don't think that Delhi will last too long. I've gotten a lot of troops into it, but he has amassed a huge attacking force too. But then, I have Lahore as a haven for the next retreat. My number one job in India is to use time. I don't want those Japanese divisions to leave there anytime in the near future.

I am also going into near-guerilla mode in Burma. PzB is now fighting in jungle, and when you are on the defensive, "jungle is your friend". I'm trying some end-arounds to see if I can cut off some of his supply lines. Again, I'm buying time. In China I'm trying similar tactics just to keep PzB "honest".

It will be interesting to see what the next game-week brings.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 50

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/8/2005 5:16:54 PM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

Look at what PzP did to retake Memboro or whatever the name of the base. He send a FT with a full brigade, without air cover, without big amount of supplies, etc, etc. Why? Because he knew that it is important to have that base!!!

He did that because he knew that I had nothing in the theater with which to oppose him. He could have sent Crayon Shin-chan in alone and taken the place just by having Shin-chan flash his butt at my starving troops. (If you have to ask, you don't watch enough anime...)

Nop David, he did it to cut your supply lines. I guess you are not going to retake that base. I keep saying what I would do next (for the last time)

-Retake Memboro to ferry replacements to Java.
-Send supplies and fuel to Perth FIRST because in Perth is your war fleet. They�re the only one that can maintain Java supplied or to strike the enemy. Even so, if you are lucky you could use your remaining CVs to surprise him.
-Invade the rest of Java!

I know that you�re going to say "I need supplies, fuel..." but you have to be like Rommel, David. I think if you use your little power you can fulfill these three things. They VERY urgent and very clear for me. But you�re the General.

P.S: Wobbly stated that he would use his LB to strike important bases in DEI. Is this possible right now??. (from Java)

Now I�ll shut my mouth up. Only for a while

. Good luck David

< Message edited by toraq -- 3/8/2005 3:18:00 PM >

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 51

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/9/2005 3:07:37 AM

Central Blue

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Joined: 8/20/2004
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and the supply and fuel for Perth comes from where? on which vessels? over what route?

_____________________________

USS St. Louis firing on Guam, July 1944. The Cardinals and Browns faced each other in the World Series that year

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 52

July 16 - 3/9/2005 4:21:16 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

The carrier TF arrived at Adelaide and promptly lowered the fuel storage from 25K to 10K. Two equally thirsty transport TFs are due to arrive soon, and likely ahead of the tanker TFs that I have steaming along the south coast with fuel. I may need to divert those "red line" transports further east instead of emptying Adelaide of fuel.

Once the carriers were in port and refueled, I took a look and was aghast that they were loaded with ac. I assumed that they would be empty of planes too since Wobbly had sent them down to Perth instead of across the north to either Derby or Darwin (which had fuel). When I took over they were too far south and too empty to go back, but if they had gone across to the east and fought, they could have refueled under the cover of Australian air, and had places to run. In the meanwhile the TFs along the map edge might have had a better chance to escape. What a shame. Oh well, that's all water under the bridge.

The situation in Ahmadabad is continuing to deteriorate, so I continued to empty it of planes and sent more depleted land units up the highway towards Malir and Karachi. In the meanwhile the number of enemy troops in Delhi continues to soar, so that won't be defensible soon. I have been able to continue to damage both the airstrips and port in Bombay. I need to keep the Japanese away from Karachi for two more weeks in order to get more troops. PzB has stopped trying to attack with his naval forces and is in fact, sending some south, probably to attack Columbo or further south. Part of my plan for the final defense of Karachi is to use my surface TFs for continuous naval bombardment of the attacking forces. This ought to make PzB's land forces pretty "unhappy".

PzB is reconing Java heavily, but my forces there are too spent to be able to do much of anything in return. He is still trying to hunt the remnants of the map edge TFs. I am still trying to hide more TFs that Wobby sent south. I believe that PzB has refueling TFs out along with his carrier TFs, and if so, he will eventually catch the remainder of what is there.

PzB is also reconing Lunga and Tawara regularly. I'm going to redeploy some of my naval forces to be able to strike hard at any assaults in those theaters. I'm also continuing to set up for a controlled redistribution of land and air forces in those regions in order to prevent PzB from unleashing all of his strength on a single point. But all that will take time. I still have to get transports back to where I have baseforces and aircraft. At least I'm starting to get fuel at the wayports in between.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 53

RE: July 16 - 3/9/2005 6:23:58 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Oh yeah. The last thing I did with the carrier air was offload it at Perth. For some reason the wildcats had not upgraded to 36 plane sqds and I wondered whether moving them to land might change that - so many bugs in the game require you to stand on your head. You took over at that point - have they upgraded?

If the carriers had headed east rather than South to Perth they would have hit the KB at that time sitting North East of Derby. They would have done so with heavily depleted fighter sqds. I figured they had weathered enough.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 54

RE: July 16 - 3/9/2005 7:07:04 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Wobbly -

They're not just getting fighters, they're now starting to fill up with Avengers. Did you know that you had Avengers entering the air pool?

It also looked to me that you had most air groups on "no replacements/no upgrades". Is that right? One of the things about the game mechanics is that air combat always favors the side with more planes. Keeping back planes is rarely a good idea.

Hmmm - if "no replacements" was turned on without you knowing it, that might explain why you were seeing smaller fighter squadrens still in mid 1942. The game does have a tendency to "change" things without telling you.

Dave

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 55

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/9/2005 5:08:40 PM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

and the supply and fuel for Perth comes from where? on which vessels? over what route?

What I say is that BEFORE sending supplies and fuel to Lunga, Tarawa, or mid-bases David should send MOST of his fuel and supplies to Australian bases, Java and Perth: the ones that need them urgently in order to receive replacements and in order to attack the Japanese in the region.

Java will be the next place PzB will attack after the fall of India, I�m sure. Java is a VERY dangerous place to let the Allies to build bases (close to supply, resource and oil centers).

PzB WON�T attack Tarawa or Lunga.

He is not SOOO stupid. Those are not dangerous places. Tarawa is a stupid island and Lunga only threatens Rabaul, not his supply/oil/resource centers.

< Message edited by toraq -- 3/9/2005 3:10:26 PM >

(in reply to Central Blue)

Post #: 56

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/9/2005 5:47:07 PM

aztez

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline

Nice to read this AAR

..I'm just getting started with my own campaign so I will wish you best of luck and keep reading this regularly.

I do agree with one thing... PzB will put forward everything he has to recapture Java if he can finish off India. That might cause some serious problems to Allies if the supply situation and defences un Java aren't ready for it.

Best of luck to you David

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 57

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/9/2005 11:19:22 PM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

David

I played with the replacement settings of AC groups often. The main reason is the dreaded Bombardment mission. Remember when he hit me in Batavia? Well he managed to destroy all my dauntlesses and the air repair facilities of the base, then the sqds replaced all the planes (but in a damaged condition) and I couldn't repair them. In effect I lost two lots of the same ACs - that hurt! I therefore set many of the front line units to 'no replacement'. The numbers I had in Tjilitap that couldn't repair was a little scary - how are you going with getting those guys operational again? This is an instant where I did turn off replacements. I figured it was better to repair planes that remained than to keep replacing the damaged ones while they could be bombed on the ground - you may have a different outlook.

When carriers came into port I would look to their replacement settings - I find this impacts the Japanese more with their low pilot pools - but still an issue with US Carriers, they can't replace their planes unless in port either. So having the fighter units on 'accept replacements' while still at sea should not have made a difference. The group from the Lex, which had made landfall when she made it to Tjilitap harbour, had upgraded to the larger size - hence my thinking of offloading.

Yes I had forced the Yorktown torpedo group to upgrade to Avengers.

(in reply to aztez)

Post #: 58

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/10/2005 1:22:41 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Here's some highlights from July 17th's action. First off, for those folks who feel that Allied ASW is too effective:

Sub attack at 25, 84

Japanese Ships
SS I-7

Allied Ships
MSW Jan van Amstel, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

The MSW sank. The sub is still there, "thumbing its nose" at me - my planes won't attack it and I have no other ships in the area. Here's another:

Sub attack near Tjilitjap at 19, 62

Japanese Ships
SS I-121

Allied Ships
DD Van Galen
PC Reliance
MSW Grebe

PzB likes to park subs in my ports. However, not everything went his way, as a well armed supply TF sailed into Lunga harbour and took care of the "spy sub" sitting there:

ASW attack near Lunga at 67, 97

Japanese Ships
SS I-174, hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
APD Stringham
APD McKean
APD Little
APD Gregory
APD Manley

This is good news for another reason - I will finally get enough supplies into Lunga to not only take it out of the "pink", but also allow me to start some LBA attacks in the region. I don't bother putting LBA into bases unless I already have lots of supplies there.

Speaking of LBA, here's an example of what happens when you leave ships in port against strong LBA:

Day Air attack on Bombay, at 20, 10

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 9

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 36
B-24D Liberator x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 6 destroyed, 4 damaged
H8K Emily: 1 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 7 damaged

Japanese Ships
AP Nikki Maru, Bomb hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
AP Zukai Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Tatsutake Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AP Nichiryo Maru, Bomb hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
220 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 1
Runway hits 18
Port hits 2
Port supply hits 1

In this case I sent both a port attack and an airbase attack. As long as I have multiple bases from which to launch, I will endeavour to make Bombay a very costly place for PzB to have ships.

But the key, of course, is to have plenty of planes, large bases and lots of base force air support. Things aren't quite the way that I would like it in Java, so I tend to get results like this:

Day Air attack on Batavia, at 19, 59

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 23

Allied aircraft
SBD Dauntless x 17
TBD Devastator x 15
B-25C Mitchell x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 4 destroyed
TBD Devastator: 11 destroyed
B-25C Mitchell: 13 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
49 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 13

Don't believe it when you hear about the Japanese "running out of good pilots". If the Japanese can get quantities of good planes and the Allies can't get their escorts to launch, things can be very expensive for the Allies. It's hard to shut down an airbase so that CAP won't fly.

There was lots of other air action, particularly against troops. I'm bombing PzB's troops in India and PzB is bombing my troops in China and Burma. In addition, the land action continues in India. PzB launched another "deliberate" attack on Ahmadabad, and once again got 0:1 odds. I've been pulling out depleted units, so that is probably helping me to lower my losses:

Ground combat at Ahmadabad

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 126576 troops, 299 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 66103 troops, 70 guns, 691 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese ground losses:
1431 casualties reported
Guns lost 7

Allied ground losses:
1575 casualties reported
Guns lost 29
Vehicles lost 18

PzB also launched his first "deliberate" attack on Delhi:

Ground combat at Delhi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 155339 troops, 1348 guns, 801 vehicles

Defending force 50042 troops, 354 guns, 4 vehicles

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 4

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 4)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 4

Japanese ground losses:
2058 casualties reported
Guns lost 77
Vehicles lost 7

Allied ground losses:
2331 casualties reported
Guns lost 42

This isn't so good because he is starting out at 1:1 odds. This means that I've only got a few more days before I'll have to start pulling the planes out of there.

BTW - the KB is still chasing stragglers along the map edge west of Java. Those ships that are escaping tend to be sinking just outside Perth harbour.

Here is an observation that is interesting to me - because I have so few ships in port in the West Coast they are all getting repaired at "blinding" speed. <L>

I checked the air squadrons on my three carriers in Adelaide - they are all "full up" and all have Avengers. That will definitely change the dynamics of naval air warfare. I'm still "resting" those ships in port. They need more fuel and supply before I move them along, and that "red-line" transport TF surprised me by getting into port and sucking Adelaide dry of fuel a turn earlier than I expected. But I have plenty of fuel on the way, and waiting a few days is never a bad thing - it's always good to rest air crews and do minor repairs on ships. When Wasp reaches Pearl Harbour I'll have to be certain to upgrade its torpedo bombers to Avengers too.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 59

RE: ugly, ugly, ugly... - 3/10/2005 1:30:26 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

I therefore set many of the front line units to 'no replacement'.

It's just that so many rear area groups also had their replacements off that it looked as if there was some sort of general "switch", similar to the one that you mentioned putting sub doctrines "on" with the conversion to v1.40.

I like to have BIG air groups, and I prefer to have those that I am preparing for future operations to grow rather than those that I'll lose anyway (typically the ones in the PI or DEI at the beginning of the war.

So things are starting to look the way that I like as far as air groups go. The next time PzB comes snooping around with his carriers or LBA I ought to be able to give him some nasty surprises in most places outside of Java. There just aren't enough base forces in Java, nor are the bases large enough to get the air groups to grow to good sizes. Since things have quietened down a bit, I've even pulled back my longer range planes to let them recover and regain strength before I fly them back in for some extended action.

Dave

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 60

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