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RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 2:00:42 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

I think that the worst thing that happened to Wobbly is that he lost the British navy to air strikes. As you saw from my defense of Karachi, I caused a lot of problems with what was actually a pretty weak force. If I had a few more Brit battleships and cruisers at Karachi PzB might not have broken through. That is actually my strategy in my other PBEMs - to keep my surface forces in key bases where I can defend them from the air and cause significant losses to any invasion. But then, I've pulled a lot of air power back from the PI and Malaya under the assumption that it is easier to get air groups to Eastern Australia than it is to India.

As far as the land combat goes - I still see too much inconsistancy to believe that it is "right". A beaten-up, run down, supply-less unit will sit on a road for days under increasing attacks by a huge opponent and yet it will still withstand 100 to 1 odds. At the same time, a well rested, high morale, fully supplied, well generaled big land unit will retreat at 2:1 odds somewhere else. It's the lack of consistancy that drives me nuts. (And it probably drives PzB nuts too because of the effort it takes for him to get rid of ridiculously small remnants.)

Oh well, we'll see what the next revision brings...

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 241

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 2:11:23 AM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

Well David,

As always, I disagree with most of your current strategy. Your real problem now is Java and your long report doesn�t say anything about how to save the situation there. You emphasize the defence of the West Coast

the Giltberts and so,

, but this is a waste of time.

The real problem now is JAVA, and you got to think how to save the situation there. You stated in your report that you need a base close to Java to get help fighters there. I (and others with me) said it so long time ago. But this is only the first step!!!.

I think it is late to save Java. PzB is a good player. He commits everything to fulfill a mission. That�s why he sent the entire fleet to India, (and his entire army). But he also made some mistakes (in my opinion): as you said, he avoided using more land based bombers to supress Karachi�s defences...Why???

So, I still don�t see any clear strategy in your dispositions...That�s why I keep critizising you. There is no "big strategy" and your little successes in the sea have been drowned with the Yorktown

(what a shame!)

Remember that they�re just comments...

< Message edited by toraq -- 4/6/2005 2:16:38 AM >

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 242

Timor heats up... - 4/6/2005 3:31:53 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

One of the oddities of the game occured on September 18 as my surface combat TF went into Koepang, found nothing and left, and then was followed in by a Japanese transport TF. I've seen this happen often against the AI, but this is the first time I've seen it happen in PBEM. Oh well, I'm just sending that combat TF back in again. I could have left the combat TF in Koepang on "patrol/do not retire", but that is risky with PzB's Bettys able to strike across unimaginable distances. And as it turned out, PzB has raised the stakes in the region - my often unreliable air patrols report seeing a couple of carriers in Kendari harbor. This wouldn't really surprise me - it has been hard to believe that PzB has let me get away with as much as I have in the region. He also may assume that I don't have other carrier assets in the region...

In Karachi, PzB did another naval bombardment followed by a deliberate land attack from which he obtained his first 1:1 results:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 249698 troops, 1301 guns, 211 vehicles

Defending force 60044 troops, 173 guns, 346 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
2358 casualties reported
Guns lost 39
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
4402 casualties reported
Guns lost 76
Vehicles lost 33

So time has almost run out for the defenders there. Good - I don't want to have more troops, ships or planes go there and get lost.

In other news, my bombers in PM caught a retreating DD:

Day Air attack on TF at 58,88

Allied aircraft
B-26B Marauder x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Yukaze, Bomb hits 6, on fire, heavy damage

PzB is slowly going to run out of DDs if I can help it.

PzB's TF that appeared to be heading for Shortlands is even closer, so it looks like it may well "meet" my combat TFs that I'm sending that way. Maybe they won't "miss" the way the TFs did at Koepang.

Surprisingly, PzB didn't attack Java this turn. He is probably moving his air groups to support operations around Timor. The next couple of turns ought to be interesting.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 243

More Game Oddities... - 4/6/2005 5:23:45 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

One of the inexplicable things that I've come to expect in Grigsby games is that aircraft tend not to attack enemy units (LCUs or ships)that are in the same hex as the aircraft's base. Because of this experience I won't set planes to try to attack LCUs in the same hex, and I never expect them to attack ships in the same hex. Well, in the September 19 turn, this observation that goes back to Pacwar and UV days held up once again in Karachi. PzB sent in a bombardment TF that didn't do much for some reason. Then later on in the turn we got this result:

Day Air attack on TF at 19,7

Allied aircraft
Fulmar x 5
F4F-4 Wildcat x 5
Kittyhawk I x 2
Beaufort I x 2
Beaufort V-IX x 5
P-40E Warhawk x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Fulmar: 2 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 damaged
Beaufort I: 2 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged
P-40E Warhawk: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei, Torpedo hits 1
CA Suzuya
BB Kongo

What you have to realize is that there were three or four other Japanese TFs that were just sitting in the Karachi hex and no planes went after them. PzB is as befuddled by this as I am.

Speaking of being "befuddled", ground combat at Karachi also came up odd this turn as PzB got impatient and tried a shock attack:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 246995 troops, 1251 guns, 212 vehicles

Defending force 55326 troops, 90 guns, 312 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
3793 casualties reported
Guns lost 41
Vehicles lost 5

Allied ground losses:
3036 casualties reported
Guns lost 37
Vehicles lost 17

There is no explanation for the ground combat model in this game - I'll just take the occasional bit of luck that is thrown my way. But none of this gives me a "warm feeling" that my combat troops will do much better in 1944/1945. I had better figure out a way to sink a lot of the ships that carry PzB's troops back from India.

Speaking of sinking ships, my returning combat TF caught PzB's transport TFs on the second try at Koepang:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Koepang at 28,77

Japanese Ships
AG AG-5138, Shell hits 4, and is sunk
AG AG-5139, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
AG AG-5140, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
AG AG-5142, Shell hits 3, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix
CL Nashville
DD Russell
DD Helm
DD Mahan
DD Perkins

and:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Koepang at 28,77

Japanese Ships
AP Arugun Maru, Shell hits 25, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix
CL Nashville
DD Russell
DD Helm
DD Mahan
DD Perkins

But PzB was persistant as ever and another small TF got into port where it was attacked unsuccessfully by some of my bombers:

Day Air attack on TF, near Koepang at 28,77

Allied aircraft
B-25C Mitchell x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AK Takao Maru

Oh well, maybe we'll get it next turn.

BTW - my TF that went into Shortlands missed whatever transport TF was in the area, but they did run into a mine field. Thanks to having a DMS along for the cruise only one of my ships received minor damage.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 244

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 5:26:31 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

The real problem now is JAVA, and you got to think how to save the situation there.

"Save"? Save from what? PzB isn't attacking, other than the occasional air attack. He is moving forces into the Timor region, New Britain, and the Marshalls, but he isn't doing anything in Java.

You are lucky this isn't USENET, otherwise folks would be applying the "T" word to you...

Cheers -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to toraq)

Post #: 245

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 6:15:19 AM

Grotius

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Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
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One more quick thought on India: if the Japanese player turns to India right after Singapore, doesn't he risk running out of supply? If he doesn't have the DEI by April or so, he's in trouble, no?

But in your game, I take it PzB conquered the DEI before he went to India, which sorta moots my point. :-)

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 246

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:12:47 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

One more quick thought on India: if the Japanese player turns to India right after Singapore, doesn't he risk running out of supply? If he doesn't have the DEI by April or so, he's in trouble, no?

But in your game, I take it PzB conquered the DEI before he went to India, which sorta moots my point. :-)

The only really tough part of the DEI to conquer that has oil/resources is Java. The rest of the area, including that island with the tons of resources and supplies, can essentially be taken "on the way".

Sure, the Allied player can raid, move troops, and fortify areas during the first half of 1942, but the reality is that the Allies have so little that they can't really do anything aggressive without risking it all. The Japanese player has virtual freedom of movement, so if he choses to eliminate India, there's little the Allied player can do about it. And as long as the Japanese player avoids responding in "panic" Allied counterattacks won't matter at that point.

Notice how PzB has ignored Java. The end result of this part of Wobbly's strategy has been to weaken the Allied naval forces and isolate a number of very good Allied troops. If those troops weren't stuck in Java I would have bases in the Marshalls by now, as well as most of the Solomons and New Britain under my control - PzB had little in either location up until recently. But without those troops that I've got stuck in Java I couldn't risk committing my remaining troops to major campaigns because it would leave my "way station" bases undefended.

The only area where I've had consistant success is Timor, where my actions did make PzB react prematurely, and where I could combine all of my forces - land, sea and air - to achieve local superiority. And that success may be short-lived if PzB decides to bring back significant portions of his naval forces and retake the local initiative.

In the end, regardless of what Wobbly and I have achieved in the Pacific, PzB has ended up with a ton of points. He is currently around 24,000 points ahead of me and he will go further ahead once he captures Karachi. And I won't be doing massive bombing raids from China with the supply situation there so he has really gained by removing the Indian front. So all-in-all I believe that the Indian invasion will benefit a Japanese player a lot in comparison to most other action.

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Grotius)

Post #: 247

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 1:22:17 PM

Gen.Hoepner

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From: italy
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Very good and interesting Analyzis!

Are you really scared about a possible japanese landing on Us territories? I see this option very very difficult , even for an aggressive Japanese player like PzB.
If i was PzB, after India, i will go for Java, take it back and then push forward in China, getting secured the whole Asian Continent, with all its resources and supplies.

_____________________________

[image]http://yfrog.com/2m70331348022314716641664j [/image]

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 248

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 2:07:17 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Very good and interesting Analyzis!

Are you really scared about a possible japanese landing on Us territories? I see this option very very difficult , even for an aggressive Japanese player like PzB.
If i was PzB, after India, i will go for Java, take it back and then push forward in China, getting secured the whole Asian Continent, with all its resources and supplies.

I agree, it is a low probability action, but if I were playing the Japanese and I ran into a bunch of the West Coast combat units in the South Pacific, Australia or DEI in 1942, I would tend to guess that there might not be "anyone at home" on the West Coast. It's analogous to what happened to Wobbly when he committed of too many Indian troops to Burma. Who would have thought at the time that it would allow PzB to take all of India?

And the "six month" rule doesn't help me much right now, because I don't have any good combat troops due to arrive for more than six months. (Scary, eh?

)

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Gen.Hoepner)

Post #: 249

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 2:08:39 PM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gen.Hoepner

Very good and interesting Analyzis!

Are you really scared about a possible japanese landing on Us territories? I see this option very very difficult , even for an aggressive Japanese player like PzB.
If i was PzB, after India, i will go for Java, take it back and then push forward in China, getting secured the whole Asian Continent, with all its resources and supplies.

I agree, it is a low probability action, but if I were playing the Japanese and I ran into a bunch of the West Coast combat units in the South Pacific, Australia or DEI in 1942, I would tend to guess that there might not be "anyone at home" on the West Coast. It's analogous to what happened to Wobbly when he committed of too many Indian troops to Burma. Who would have thought at the time that it would allow PzB to take all of India?

And the "six month" rule doesn't help me much right now, because I don't have any good combat troops due to arrive for more than six months. (Scary, eh? )

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

You still get quite a few national guard divisions when the japs cross the line

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 250

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/6/2005 8:53:28 PM

toraq

Posts: 405
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline

quote:

You are lucky this isn't USENET, otherwise folks would be applying the "T" word to you...

Cheers -

Sorry, didn�t get that

...what do you mean?

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 251

RE: Mid-Sept review... - 4/7/2005 1:12:16 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

You still get quite a few national guard divisions when the japs cross the line

Oh - I thought that you just got the next 6 months worth of troops. I'm not getting much in the way of anything as far as combat troops go for the next 6 months.

Thanks -

Dave

(in reply to String)

Post #: 252

The countdown... - 4/7/2005 1:15:41 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

There were some fairly strange ground combat results on September 20. The first one was at Karachi and certainly left PzB less than pleased:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 242714 troops, 1205 guns, 208 vehicles

Defending force 48558 troops, 36 guns, 299 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese ground losses:
469 casualties reported
Guns lost 2
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
2148 casualties reported
Guns lost 8
Vehicles lost 12

That was after another two naval bombardments. The results are worse than the last shock attack despite having fewer Allied troops there.

But I had my own strange land combat results:

Ground combat at Lautem

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 3738 troops, 25 guns, 6 vehicles

Defending force 904 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 14 to 1

Japanese ground losses:
14 casualties reported

Allied ground losses:
21 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

I guess it just wasn't a good day to be attacking anyone�

I did finally get a good B-17 attack on the Marshalls:

Day Air attack on Maloelap, at 82, 81

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4

Allied aircraft
F-5A Lightning x 5
B-17E Fortress x 74

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 destroyed, 1 damaged
E7K2 Alf: 5 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F-5A Lightning: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 21 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
50 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 14
Airbase supply hits 14
Runway hits 88

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
24 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet
3 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 6000 feet

PzB has been reinforcing Maloelap like crazy. That's cool - I intend to go around it and use it for target practice later on in the same way that PzB uses my isolated Chinese units.

Otherwise, the rest of my usual aerial bombing attacks went off similarly well and I continue to move forces around to where I want them.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 253

RE: The countdown... - 4/7/2005 1:17:15 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

September 21 was another relatively quiet turn. ("Quiet is good" <g>) PzB's attacks on Karachi are slowly wearing down the defenders:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 245957 troops, 1224 guns, 352 vehicles

Defending force 46422 troops, 53 guns, 291 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
1444 casualties reported
Guns lost 19

Allied ground losses:
4016 casualties reported
Guns lost 25
Vehicles lost 35

The daily naval bombardments keep the port and airfield damaged so that the engineers can't get to repairing the fortifications. Fortunately, there are no forces scheduled to arrive at Karachi for a couple of weeks, so if PzB can get this over with quickly I can avoid throwing away more ships and planes.

One interesting thing happened at PM:

Day Air attack on TF, near Port Moresby at 53, 91

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 7

Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 4
Kittyhawk I x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed, 5 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Evertsen
AP Chaumont

I like seeing unescorted Bettys coming in against CAP. Even Wirraways can shoot down Bettys. I suspect that PzB launched the Bettys from Sorong - there is an "x" there now indicating that planes have arrived. Fortunately, Sorong is well within the range of my bombers at Darwin, so the "B-Boys" will pay a visit next turn (weather Gods allowing) and try to catch some LBA on the ground.

The only other item of note was a failed ASW attack by my remaining ASW-capable ships in Tjilitjap:

Sub attack at 18, 62

Japanese Ships
SS I-11

Allied Ships
PC Reliance, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
MSW Grebe

The Reliance sank quite reliably. Afterwards Bettys from Malang came by to hit Grebe in port:

Day Air attack on TF, near Tjilitjap at 19, 62

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
A6M3 Zero x 12
G4M1 Betty x 6

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
MSW Grebe, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

That is useful to know - I now see that I no longer have as much freedom of action around Northern Oz/Timor as I used to have. Fortunately I have already removed all of the ships out of Tjilitjap harbour that will float to Oz. (I pulled out lot of ships while PzB was "looking the other way".)

Dave Baranyi

< Message edited by ADavidB -- 4/7/2005 1:23:28 AM >

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 254

RE: The countdown... - 4/7/2005 1:18:52 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Things are continuing to be quiet on September 22. PzB makes slow progress at reducing Karachi:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 268713 troops, 1459 guns, 360 vehicles

Defending force 42225 troops, 35 guns, 259 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Japanese ground losses:
1315 casualties reported
Guns lost 13
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
2671 casualties reported
Guns lost 15
Vehicles lost 13

He is, of course, still sending bombardment TFs in on each turn. But he is sending fewer, so I suspect that the rest are heading south.

The "big" news for me is that I was finally able to get some Chinese bombers to attack some Japanese troops in the field in China:

Day Air attack on 15th Tank Regiment, at 45,34

Allied aircraft
SB-2c x 9

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
35 casualties reported
Vehicles lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x SB-2c bombing at 6000 feet

and:

Day Air attack on 37th Division, at 45,34

Allied aircraft
SB-2c x 18

No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
10 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x SB-2c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x SB-2c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x SB-2c bombing at 6000 feet
3 x SB-2c bombing at 6000 feet

PzB is starting to bring units into Central China, so I'm assuming that he is planning an offensive. I'm moving troops out in response to try to slow down/bog down any offensive. If my planes continue to bomb troops in the field (something that I'll believe when I see it happen) then I may be able to stop this offensive before it really gets going.

Meanwhile, my attack on Sarong didn't do much, but there doesn't appear to have been much there other than patrol planes. So the Bettys may have come from either Hollandia or Wewak. Therefore I'll attack those two sites next from PM. PM now has more than the "magic" 250 air support points, along with an Air HQ, so as long as I keep it nicely full of supplies I ought to be able to run some nice air offensives from there.

BTW - it appears that there aren't any carriers at Kendari after all. That's okay, I have ships to sail, troops to move and supplies to deliver - I really don't want to be bothered by air attacks�<g>

Otherwise, things continue to settle down the way that I want.

Dave Baranyi

(My two favourite phrases for this game: "Quiet Is Good" and "Jungle Is Your Friend")

< Message edited by ADavidB -- 4/7/2005 1:23:51 AM >

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 255

Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 2:36:34 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
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After a number of bombardments PzB's land forces finally captured Karachi and what was left of its defenders on September 23:

Ground combat at Karachi

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 269338 troops, 1450 guns, 358 vehicles

Defending force 37909 troops, 23 guns, 263 vehicles

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Karachi base !!!

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort I: 1 destroyed
Beaufort V-IX: 4 destroyed
Blenheim IF: 1 destroyed
Wirraway: 2 destroyed
Kittyhawk I: 9 destroyed
Spitfire Vb: 2 destroyed
Hurricane II: 4 destroyed
Mohawk IV: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 5 destroyed
Swordfish: 1 destroyed

Japanese ground losses:
1232 casualties reported
Guns lost 16
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
35160 casualties reported
Guns lost 313
Vehicles lost 226

I've still got a dozen and a half units sitting in various locations in northern India, but I doubt that I can get them to go anywhere useful, let alone do anything useful with them. The movement rules will effectively "rule out" any attempt at guerilla war.

What really ticks me off is another of the "as designed features" of the game - now all of the troops, planes and ships that are supposed to arrive in Karachi are listed as arriving at "unknown" and according to Frag, will stay there until I "recapture" Karachi.

If I remember correctly, this sort of idiocy existed in Pacwar too. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any intention by the powers-that-be to attempt to make this a little more "realistic".

So there is yet another incentive for Japanese players to go after India in a big way - not only do you get lots of victory points, but you also get to artificially cut off a large number of reinforcements. I think that it is stupid and gamey, but then, this is the game that Gary Grigsby and Mike Woods developed, and the game that Frag so steadfastly defends.

BTW - speaking of victory points, the current totals are:

Japanese - 39694
Allied - 10123

I will have to be very lucky not to lose on points on January 1, 1943.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 256

RE: Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 3:51:48 AM

Tom Hunter

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Dave,

Since you inherited the game I don't see any shame in losing on points in 43. Also I don't feel its safe to draw conclusions about the defense of India from your efforts since you inherited a situation from a player who felt it bad enough to resign.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 257

RE: Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 4:09:13 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tom Hunter

Dave,

Since you inherited the game I don't see any shame in losing on points in 43. Also I don't feel its safe to draw conclusions about the defense of India from your efforts since you inherited a situation from a player who felt it bad enough to resign.

Tom -

I'm intending to do my best to not allow PzB to get those points that he so badly wants.

I've got a few game weeks in which I have to prepare to catch PzB's counterattack and stop it. This will be the real test of my strategy for the past 2 1/2 game months.

As far as India goes, my feeling is that PzB did it the "hard way" by going after what he saw as the big danger in the airbases in eastern India. My feeling is that a Japanese player can cripple India by going after Celon, followed by Bombay and then Karachi - and do this as early in 1942 as possible. There are so few decent troops and planes there in the first few months of 1942 that a good Japanese player doesn't even need to commit everything that he has.

And the value of capturing Karachi early is inestimable because ALL of the better forces that are supposed to come as reinforcements will now be lost in "limbo". Capture Karachi and you can go after the other inland bases at your leisure.

Thanks again for the comments and support -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Tom Hunter)

Post #: 258

PT vs PT - 4/7/2005 5:38:22 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

September 24 not only ushered in a new "era" in the game but also brought something that I've never seen before - PT vs PT combat. And yes, it did sort of resemble the old "Spy vs Spy" routine in Mad Magazine. I spotted PzB's TF ahead of time and I already had a PT TF in Lautem, so I wasn't too worried even though I had a tanker in port dropping off some fuel. But just in case I sent out a carrier TF a bit to the south. Well, look what happened:

TF 38 encounters mine field at Lautem (33,78)

Japanese Ships
PT Gyoraitei #2, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

followed by:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Lautem at 33,78

Japanese Ships
PT Gyoraitei #1
PT Gyoraitei #5

Allied Ships
PT PT-67
PT PT-68
PT PT-73
PT PT-74

That first Japanese PT that hit the mine sank, then the others did some sort of "dance" with my PTs and left. I was glad afterwards that my carrier TF didn't spot and launch against those PTs because this way they weren't detected. I'm hoping to save them for bigger game.

Elsewhere, my Indian "refugees" in China delivered a nice attack on one of PzB's bases:

Day Air attack on Hanoi , at 36,37

Allied aircraft
Blenheim IV x 9
Wellington III x 37
Hudson I x 5
IL-4c x 3

Allied aircraft losses
Hudson I: 1 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Airbase hits 4
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 55

It's good for them to get easy practice like that, and PzB may well react a bit to it and ease off on some of my other Chinese troops. I'd love to get into a war of attrition with his air units again. PzB did send some strong air attacks against Tjilitjap again. I'm not bothering to respond until I can get some good fighters in there. Otherwise I bombed the usual collection of bases that I like to keep suppressed.

I started to land a base force on Rossel Island. I've already mined the place, and I have a supply transport TF on the way to give those engineers a good start. If PzB doesn't react too vigorously I'll move some SeaBee units in from the Gilberts as they finish their work there. One thing nice about Rossel is that attacks from the north have to go around the reefs and become more exposed to attack.

I'm also resting up and preparing my Gili-Gili invasion force. I'm hoping that PzB continues to build his forces in the DEI so that I get the time to slip this force into place.

The question now is - where is the KB, and when will PzB sail out with it in all its "glory"? (And can I get him to sail it somewhere near my large and well trained LBA?)

BTW - the whole situation with Karachi has definitely reaffirmed my decision to "keep the home fires burning" and not strip the West Coast bare of combat troops.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 259

The pariah - 4/7/2005 8:11:08 AM

wobbly

Posts: 1095
Joined: 10/16/2002
From: Christchurch, New Zealand
Status: offline

Ow hell - thar she blows.

You've been up-beat and optimistic with one hell of an awful hand. I felt like the pariah of the boards by giving up on everyone's favourite AAR, but I feel you are still staring down the barrel of an auto-victory defeat (does that make sense?).

I think I started to read despondency in a few of your latest posts. You didn't start this game, and as you have often written, it is not "set up" as you would have done or made decisions that I did, but maybe now you do understand the complete incapacity I felt being on the receiving end of the early Japanese onslaught.

I have to take my hat off to you on continuing with such an awful position - I am so pleased I didn't force you to take it!!

PzB floated a continuation of the game after a 4-1 loss, will you take him up on this (presuming you don't manage to undo him getting there)?

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(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 260

RE: The pariah - 4/7/2005 1:07:40 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

PzB floated a continuation of the game after a 4-1 loss, will you take him up on this (presuming you don't manage to undo him getting there)?

Assuming that we don't run into too many more "Soviet takeover"-type bugs I'm curious to see how far we can take this thing.

I think that it is a shame that the game contains a number of arbitrary rules that are inconsistantly applied, but it looks like a lot of people like the "play balance" rules, so I doubt that they will be changed. That's a pity.

I'm also curious to see what the next revision brings and if we can upgrade the current game. There are a lot of small problems with CTDs, vanishing maps, and extraneous units (enemy air units showing up when I scroll through my air units) and so on for which I have a set of regular work-arounds that I use. Will that situation get better or worse? Only time and another version release will tell.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to wobbly)

Post #: 261

RE: Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 1:24:32 PM

Monter_Trismegistos

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

[...]What really ticks me off is another of the "as designed features" of the game - now all of the troops, planes and ships that are supposed to arrive in Karachi are listed as arriving at "unknown" and according to Frag, will stay there until I "recapture" Karachi.

If I remember correctly, this sort of idiocy existed in Pacwar too. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any intention by the powers-that-be to attempt to make this a little more "realistic".[...]

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

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Nec Temere Nec Timide
Bez strachu ale z rozwagą

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 262

RE: Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 2:20:13 PM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

If you look at the ships, planes and troops that are supposed to go to Karachi, a number of them are American, Australian units and even Canadian units - there aren't just Brit units.

The general consensus here appears to be that they shouldn't be redeployed within the useful range of the Allied player. That makes no sense to me - I would expect that the US would have moved even more troops to the West Coast after the fall of India - they were totally paranoid at the time about a potential invasion of the US.

However, this is how the game is designed, and as a number of players have said, it gives a bonus to the Japanese player for being aggressive.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to Monter_Trismegistos)

Post #: 263

RE: Crunch time... - 4/7/2005 2:26:52 PM

String

Posts: 2661
Joined: 10/7/2003
From: Estonia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ADavidB

quote:

I think that realistic is as it is now - the Britons were wiped out from SE Asia - so why they should commit more forces to this theater? As far as i understand you, you are expecting that those divisions, ships and airgroups - which were to arrive in Karachi - should be arriving in San Francisco? It's stupid - Britons sending divisions to U.S ? Quite unrealistic to me. The same thing with planes and ships...

If you look at the ships, planes and troops that are supposed to go to Karachi, a number of them are American, Australian units and even Canadian units - there aren't just Brit units.

The general consensus here appears to be that they shouldn't be redeployed within the useful range of the Allied player. That makes no sense to me - I would expect that the US would have moved even more troops to the West Coast after the fall of India - they were totally paranoid at the time about a potential invasion of the US.

However, this is how the game is designed, and as a number of players have said, it gives a bonus to the Japanese player for being aggressive.

Dave Baranyi

however we could assume that they were sent to garrison places outside the map edge. Persia, east africa or arabian gulf. Maps edge really has a nasty effect on wargames, realistically there should be an exit hex somewhere on the maps edge where the ground units could move into presia and into the pool for karachi with a delay of, say 360 days.

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 264

Lull before the storm... - 4/8/2005 2:07:54 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

September 25 was pretty quiet, other than my daily air raid on Koepang, my Indian refugees bombing Hanoi and PzB's trainees bombing various Chinese ground units. I'm resting my heavy bombers while I get more air support troops in place as well as move air HQs around. I'm getting more key bases "topped off" with air support troops as well as getting other smaller air support groups in mutually supporting positions. I want to be able to seriously damage any naval movements into my perimeter, even if the KB ventures out.

Those two Japanese PTs are still sitting between Lautem and Kendari. Are they out of fuel or are they coming back for another try? This time I'm not sending my carrier TF out after them - I'll let my own PTs stand and fight. Anyway, the tanker TF has moved off to fuel another base.

Some of my stragglers in Northern India are starting to move, so maybe they won't need an Indian base to move to afterall. Unfortunately, the units that are not engaged with Japanese troops are all non-combatants. I'm going to see just how far I can move them before they wither and die. Of course, if PzB sends some of his units up one of the north-south roads in northern India he will cut my troops off, but I'm hoping that he doesn't realize that I've got a "broken leg roach escape" going on up there. PzB hasn't moved his 41 units out of Karachi yet - he is probably luxuriating in all that supply. He had better be careful or his units in Karachi will suck all his replacements dry.

Otherwise, I'm just waiting to see what happens when P-38s start to show up in October. Hopefully there won't be any glitches. (Thank God that Lockheed was located in Long Beach, CA and not India.

)

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to String)

Post #: 265

RE: Lull before the storm... - 4/8/2005 3:56:01 AM

sveint

Posts: 3556
Joined: 1/19/2001
From: Glorious Europe
Status: offline

David,

What are your plans for Java? What forces do you have there?

< Message edited by sveint -- 4/8/2005 4:00:08 AM >

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Post #: 266

RE: Lull before the storm... - 4/8/2005 4:31:56 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sveint

David,

What are your plans for Java? What forces do you have there?

I have all the original land forces that PzB landed there - infantry, armor, engineers, a CD or two and so on. (I can't remember exactly at the moment.) It's not a bad force and I've rested it was well as possible. I've also been building up my bases and conserving supplies.

I can now bring in large numbers of bombers if I wish, as well as some fighters, but I don't want to at this time because I'm not ready to start a major war of attrition there. I want to see where PzB commits his forces first. This also gives me more flexibility in how I take advantage of opportunities.

I intend to leave Java as a "big temptation" for PzB while I build up my capabilities in Northern Australia and Timor. When I first took over the game there weren't enough bases in Java that could handle bombers - that situation has changed. I am also getting close to being able to cover my southern approaches - PzB ambushed both Wobbly and me from the South - he won't get away with it this time.

But most of PzB's efforts appear to be directed at the Central Pacific at the moment - he has a lot of ship traffic going between Truk and the Admiralty Islands. I'm not interferring with him at the moment because I don't want to give too much of a hint as to my own moves in the region. But I'm near to being able to maintain serious operations in all four key regions - Gilberts/Marshalls, Solomons, PNG and Northern Oz/Timor - simultaneously, and I think that PzB will be quite surprised at the quantity of forces I can muster in all four regions. (I actually got a lot of forces out of the debacle in the DEI and they are back in position to affect things in a big way.)

Thanks for the comments -

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to sveint)

Post #: 267

RE: Lull before the storm... - 4/8/2005 4:41:41 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

September 26th was relatively quiet again. PzB is now busy doing what I have been doing for the past 2 1/2 game months - repositioning forces. He still has his 40+ LCUs in Karachi, but he is bringing a lot of combat ships out of there, as well as planes. Some Helens spotted one of my subs near Truk this turn - that is the first time I've seen Helens in the Central Pacific.

I've been playing "Mephostopheles" to PzB's "Dr. Faustus" by "tempting" him with the thought that he could well be the first player to get a 4:1 point win in January 1943 by taking the "safe" approach and simply hunting down my stragglers in northern India.

I'm not sure that he is buying it - all that supply and fuel in Karachi is rekindling his ambitions... but he may well be underestimating the forces that I have at hand now. I am now even in the position in which I can pull back "tired" forces from the front to rebuild them and reuse them elsewhere.

BTW - I sent a bombardment TF into Munda and it appears that there are no troops and no mines. So as soon as I have my transports in position, I am sending a force in there. In the meanwhile, I have a base force and a good combat unit in Tulagi and another base force on the way to Russell Islands, so soon I will have three operational bases from which to control the Eastern and Central Solomons. PzB is resorting to sending barges to bring supplies in to his bases in the western Solomons.

In the meanwhile, I continue to bomb Koepang and Lae on a near daily basis - they aren't going to bother me from either base in the near future.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 268

RE: Lull before the storm... - 4/8/2005 5:32:56 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

Yet another "boring" but important day as I continue to bring forces to where I want them. I also got an important bit of info - PzB is reinforcing Torokina, not Shortlands! I found out the "fun way":

Day Air attack on TF, near Torokina at 63,92

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 4
B-26B Marauder x 28

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
PG Hakkai Maru, Bomb hits 1
AG AG-351
AG AG-117, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

One of those barges sank as PzB found out the "hard way" that I can hit Torokina from Lunga. I can also hit it from PM, but I'm resting those B-17s to use to hit Rabaul once I have my troops landing on Gili-Gili.

One other interesting thing - PzB put some planes in Karachi:

Day Air attack on Madras Construction Regiment, at 22,1

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 29

No Japanese losses

I guess that he intends to use it as a training base just as he has China.

I need a couple more weeks of this relative quiet and I'll be in a position to surprise PzB quite nicely. Will he give it too me? We'll see.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 269

RE: Lull before the storm... - 4/9/2005 3:48:59 AM

ADavidB

Posts: 2464
Joined: 9/17/2001
From: Toronto, Canada
Status: offline

September 28 was another quiet turn as we both continue to set up for future action. PzB is working hard to prevent me from going after his key bases. I'm working equally hard to take lots of small, obscure bases that my bulldozer-equipped engineering groups can turn into nice, solid mid-sized bases very quickly and from which I can eventually isolate and bomb his big bases back to the stone age.

I loaded the transports this turn for Gili-Gili. I also sent my B-17s off against PzB's dispersed air bases north of Rabaul. I want to start to pound them before he brings his planes in. In two more turns I'll send off the transports against Munda. They ought to get there just as PzB gets nicely wound up at trying to stop my attack at Gili-Gili. And once he also reacts to Munda I'll send the fast transports off to grab some of the empty bases on the other side of Timor.

What will I do, you may ask, if he doesn't react to my invasions of Gili-Gili and Munda? Well, in that case I'll postpone the invasions to the north of Timor and grab more small bases that are near to Gili-Gili and Munda. I've got plenty of engineers on the way, more alomst done in the Gilberts and more showing up soon on the West coast. I am now turning this into a "base building war", and I expect that I ought to be able to do well at that.

So how soon before I start to get reasonable numbers of P-38s? (He ponders while licking his lips in anticipation)...

BTW - my Indian refugees got off a nice air raid on one of PzB's training bases:

Day Air attack on Rahaeng , at 31,35

Japanese aircraft
Ki-27 Nate x 4

Allied aircraft
Wellington III x 31

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-27 Nate: 1 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Wellington III: 3 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 4
Runway hits 10

That ought to make him stop and take note.

My B-26s in Lunga also found the range on another barge at Torokina:

Day Air attack on TF, near Torokina at 63,92

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 6
B-26B Marauder x 15

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
AG AG-123
PG Hakkai Maru
AG AG-351, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
AG AG-353

That AG later sank. Sure, I don't get points for AGs, but my planes get experience, PzB doesn't get the supplies that were on board and PzB spent other supply points to create that barge.

Dave Baranyi

(in reply to ADavidB)

Post #: 270

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