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I was doing some research for Matrix MWif and came across this useless fact:
"The last propeller-driven fighter that will ever be able to claim aerial victories against propeller-driven aircraft of another nation is the Vought F4U-5 "Corsair." This event, of course, took place during the 1969 war between Honduras and neighboring El Salvador, at the hands of Honduran Major Soto. "
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Why is this useless? This was a very small and very quick war all started over a soccer match. Also very intresting that piston engine fighters where still doing combat this late after WWII.
Because knowing that the last propeller-driven aircraft to score an aerial combat victory not only gains you nothing, but doesn't even contribute to any further understanding of the Soccer War. (Great book by the same name by Kapuœciñski, btw.) It's just a useless fact. Moderately interesting, though.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluemonday
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross Moorhouse
Why is this useless?
Because knowing that the last propeller-driven aircraft to score an aerial combat victory not only gains you nothing, but doesn't even contribute to any further understanding of the Soccer War. (Great book by the same name by Kapuœciñski, btw.) It's just a useless fact. Moderately interesting, though.
Sorry but I can't understand the logic here. This is what historical research is all about. Following a trail of facts. In this case what was posted here can lead someone to dig deeper for more facts.
ORIGINAL: Ross Moorhouse Sorry but I can't understand the logic here. This is what historical research is all about. Following a trail of facts. In this case what was posted here can lead someone to dig deeper for more facts.
If you think that digging up irrelevant facts to encourage others to dig up facts is the point of historical scholarship, you are severely misinformed.
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluemonday
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ross Moorhouse Sorry but I can't understand the logic here. This is what historical research is all about. Following a trail of facts. In this case what was posted here can lead someone to dig deeper for more facts.
If you think that digging up irrelevant facts to encourage others to dig up facts is the point of historical scholarship, you are severely misinformed.
quote:
scholarship
So please do INFORM me, seeing as I am so severely misinformed.
See how Greyshaft posted what he thought was an irrelvant fact then promoted myself and Sarge to post some facts that others may not have known. Then Greyshaft posts what he is really after.
quote:
Apart from that, can anyone prove that the Argentine Air Force ever flew Stukas either during or after WWII?
That's the fact I was looking for.
Seems to me that this disproves your point of view. A point of view that you have not suppoted at all.
Also i didn't use the word "scholarship". You did.
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Joined: 8/2/2004 From: Republic of Kilburn. London UK Status: offline
Great piece of Triv - I love It - more please - was the game abandoned? - was the ref straffed because he gave a dodgy offside decision? I have heard about a goalie being under a ton of ariel bombardment but....
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Guys... this is a storm in a teacup.
If that original fact is relevent to you then you may define it as such with my blessing. I just found it while doing other research and thought it worth a post. Just because one person finds it relevant doesn't mean that it has to be relevent for everyone.
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This just the sort of stuff I for one feed off. There is always space for this kind of stuff here as far as I am concerned. Game related ( for some) and it's not OT or out as flamebait. Keep it comming. There is only 10 odd post a day at the mo in ther general forum anyway. And if members wanna spit at each other a mod is gonna point to vinnie & doggie anyways...........
If that original fact is relevent to you then you may define it as such with my blessing. I just found it while doing other research and thought it worth a post. Just because one person finds it relevant doesn't mean that it has to be relevent for everyone.
And that's a fact
What
You put up a thread on military trivia on a wargaming forum,then start flamming members that replied with some images and other facts.
hmmm........... Bad day at work
< Message edited by Sarge -- 9/8/2005 3:01:01 AM >
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quote:
ORIGINAL: bluemonday
If you think that digging up irrelevant facts to encourage others to dig up facts is the point of historical scholarship, you are severely misinformed.
Sarge.. not sure where all got a bit *SNAFU* but I think this was the post that got my feathers ruffled - almost spilt me pot of Earl Grey... any post that starts with ' If you think...' and then a 'you' does not belong here... but then thats me ...anyone is free to shoot me down at Vinnie & doggies anytime
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any idea when the last stuka of any kind was flown in anger? Would quite like to get my hand on one right now as my *Neighbour* is playing coldplay at about 129db and a JU87 would be a treat... wouldn't mind if the nice young chap was into Hawkwind or Beafheart!!!
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watchtower
I did find that post WWII, the Czechoslovkian Air Force used them as trainers.
But my thoughts seem to say the end of WWII for the last use in combat, but I think Hungary and Romainia or Bulgaria fought each other for awhile. So I'll need to check those dated out.
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Sarge,
I'm not flaming anyone (geez... how did I get into this discussion???) I'm just pointing out that the original fact was only of minor interest to me - enough to post it in this Forum but not enough to keep me following it up. Then an argument starts about whether it is a trivial fact or not and what is the definition of scholarship and I'm trying to hose the whole thing down by saying if the fact is important to anyone then thats OK by me - there's no point getting steamed about it one way or the other. Obviously my joke about "And that's a fact" wasn't as funny as I thought.
Thanks for the info RBWhite. I think the answer is that the Argentine Stuka is a counter for the "America in Flames" fantasy expansion for "World in Flames" and was never actually flown south of the equator. That's fine by me... one less aircraft history I have to write.
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Greyshaft.
My pleasure
Just a few more tid bits.
In the summer of 1940 when the Stuka's got their asses handed to them in the Battle of Britain. The Stuka after that were sent to areas of negligible air operations.
They were now considered a second rate & obsolete war plane, Summer of 1940.
Most if not close to all were eventually replaced by the FW109.
Production ended in October 1944. (Strange bit of info)
5,709 were built.
It's greatest use was a tank buster on the Eastern Front the Ju 87D as demonstarted by Han Ulrich Rudel and his air crews.
< Message edited by RBWhite -- 9/8/2005 11:17:49 PM >
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Air to Air Combat trivia - 
This was a very small and very quick war all started over a soccer match. Also very intresting that piston engine fighters where still doing combat this late after WWII.
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