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Oznoyng -> RE: Proposal for CHS - Remove the Zero bonus. Any opinions? (12/13/2005 8:52:24 PM)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
In WitP the Allies *can't* challenge the Japanese CVs through April 1942 unless the Japanese player is a damned fool and spends several days blunting his sword against, for example, Hawaii. Both players know this.
You are making a mountain out of a molehill. The Zero bonus is 5 maneuver points. It is gone May 1 of 42. In April it is +1 manuever, which effectively makes it an A6M3 instead of an A6M2. Eliminating the Zero bonus will not cause the Allied player to engage with his CV's unless, as you say, the IJN player does something stupid or the Allied player is an idiot. You neglect 3 other factors which affect the Allied mind when you claim the Zero bonus is the root of Allied timidity in game:
- USN players wait for 36 fighters - USN CV's upgrade to 36 fighters in the early summer, long after the Zero bonus is gone.
- USN Players wait for CV and escort AA upgrades - Most of these occur in April and July of 42. In late April, when Allied CV's have had an opportunity go to port, upgrade, repair and redeploy, the Allied commander has to wait a few days for the bonus to be gone.
- USN players wait til they have the CV's to get an even number of planes/carriers - The USN has 3 CV's at war start and gets 1 more in mid January, 1 more mid February. By the time that last CV deploys to a location where a CV battle would likely occur, you are looking at the March bonus of a whopping +2 maneuver.
Even in early 42, the USN can hit and hurt KB in the midst of an operation. The problem is, no Allied player will do it bcause they do not face any political pressures to do anything but play turtle. If there was a rule that accumulated base VP each month instead of the way it is handled now, Allied players would feel some pressure to defend. As it is, all the Allied player does is fall back as long and as far as the Japanese are willing to penetrate until they have a decisive advantage. Then, they fight back. Any adventure by Japan beyond a defensible perimeter has one goal and one goal only - to kill troops, planes and ships before the decisive advantage is reached. If I conducted an op against Johnston or Luganville, my goal would be kiling troops, planes and ships, not the base itself because holding the base would cost me more in the long run that it was worth. It is not about taking territory because the territory has no endgame value. As soon as it is retaken, it is lost from a VP perspective and it is as if I had never taken it.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
As a result the Japanese player can with impunity attempt operations that the real Japanese would not have attempted (like a move on Johnston Island, or Luganville).
I really am beginning to wonder if you ever played Japan. Yeah, I could mount those operations. The amount of force that Japan can project is severely limited, and if I am projecting force there, I am leaving other areas wide open. In WW2, early Allied CV use entailed raids on areas the IJN CV's were not believed to be. If I have KB at Johnston or Luganville, there are a host of other areas where the presence of 3 USN CV's would cause me a world of hurt.
quote:
ORIGINAL: mdiehl
The "strategic picture" or "strategic flavor" or "look and feel" of the early strategic situation is all wrong and it grossly favors the Japanese.
Bull. First of all, the "flavor" of the first six months of the war was the perception that Japan was invincible and could take what they wanted, since they were not thwarted much until Coral Sea. There wasn't a whole lot of good news coming out of the South Pacific for the Allies before Coral Sea. The truth is that even in game, Japan has limited resources and can conduct operations with near impunity in one theatre until early summer. Any more theaters than that or any later than that, and Japan doesn't have the air forces to conduct the offensive with impunity, and that leaves you with a place to attack. You simply have to attack where Japan is not. Looking at my position on any given turn, there are a half dozen places where a raid by 3 USN CV's would cause me heartburn, but the fact is Allied players don't have the balls to conduct the ops. They take the easy way out and wait til they have overwhelming force.
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