RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (Full Version)

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benpark -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/30/2005 11:53:08 PM)

All this is terminology-but here is my definition of what a "grog" wargame is:

-It uses a system (comp or however) to portray a historical battle or conflict, where that system reinforces tactics of the period in gameplay

-It uses this system to portray tactics in a way that keeps the game within the confines of probability for the time portrayed

-It has detail at the service of portraying aspects of actual units involved, and equipment actually utilized for the period.

-It forces/allows the player to approach decisions based on problems presented to commanders of this era/conflict based on the above, as well as acurate representations of the terrain fought over.

-If it has an AI, it fights as it's historical counterpoint might, based on tactics and doctrine of the period.

-It has stats that accurately reflect OOB, weapons and combat outcomes in line with historical facts/outcomes.

It includes, if at the tactical level, formations of the period-accurately.

And so on. The more a game is true to history in these ways, the better in my "grog" book.

In terms of if a person is a "grog"-well, how much history do you read? Probably the more you do-the more of one you are. The more you demand from your games in their fidelity to history, the more "grog"like you probably are.

Anyway-2nd Bull Run passes very well in terms of the above.






pasternakski -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 12:29:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: benpark
Anyway-2nd Bull Run passes very well in terms of the above.

You utilize some/several interesting ideas/concepts.

Those you try to define defy your definition.



rhondabrwn -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 12:36:14 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam@madminutegames.com

Some folks like RTS...some like Turn-Based...some like WWII only..whatever. The main thing is that Wargames are great fun and there's a flavor for everyone. We started MadMinute Games because we wanted to add more flavor! Wargamers, whether they're Grogs or newbies, need to stick together. There's not that much content out there for the wargamers who love this stuff. We all need to support eachother! Matrix, Battlefront, Paradox, Shrapnel, etc all have games that are great and should be supported if those companies make a game (flavor) that appeals to you.

If it's not yer cup of tea...fine...no worries! But it is to another fellow wargamer! Diversity can be a strength or a huge weakness. Wargames will never see attention by major publishers if we continue to splinter ourselves with bickering and infighting over ridiculous particulars all the while missing the big picture! A house divided cannot stand!




I concur completely. Thanks for joining us in this discussion.



benpark -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 12:38:43 AM)

Like Mr. Natural says, Pasternakski "...'twas ever thus".



pasternakski -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 1:13:19 AM)

.


[image]local://upfiles/6977/452164B3FFAB4116B2149079CF02B0C7.jpg[/image]



Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 1:51:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava


Actually, Paradox picked them.

Now if you were working 16 hours a day (your regular job plus trying to make a game) and a producer with some muscle offered to change your distribution for online downloads to games in stores.. what would you have done?

If you had kept up on their forums, you would have seen they were even working on Christmas.

These guys need a break to get into the mainstream. Hopefully Paradox's marketing muscle will do that.

Ray (alias Lava)


Lame Lava [8|]

Can care less how hard they work, do you care how hard I have to work to pay for the game




Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 2:26:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava


They've done that now for almost four years. They have families. Adam a new born. WTF do you expect these people to be SUPERMEN.

I repeat, don't ever complain about the lack of wargame titles.

Ray (alias Lava)



I hope your not their PR



*Lava* -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 2:51:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

Lame Lava [8|]


Lame?

Here is lame, from MMG's forum:

quote:

Sarge
Cannon Fodder

Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 12:00 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Paradox !

Good luck with their forums, you are going to need it after Paradox track record and general respones to customers on the forums as of resent.

Paroadox over Matrix or Battlefront is just crazy, sure I understand the retail argument. But the support from M or BF is second to none, alone with some of the best run forums in wargamming.


Seems you have an agenda other than wargaming (unless we have a case of misidentity, in which case I apologize).

As for me, no I'm not their PR man. I did some testing on their first game, but these guys work soo hard for this old man.

My main interest is pomoting independent game producers. I'm tired of the SOS, and it's guys like these who bring fresh ideas and innovation to wargaming.

Ray (alias Lava)



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 2:54:50 AM)

Jeez. Somebody didnt get enough beauty sleep. (Not you Lava)

I love Civil War era games. Does this thing have co-op play or H2H?


That was the best thing about Sid Meir's Gettysburg (different beast I understand, movement was too gimmicky)



*Lava* -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 3:21:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Jeez. Somebody didnt get enough beauty sleep. (Not you Lava)


It's that time of the month..

[;)]

Ray (alias Lava)



Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:00:08 AM)

WTF is wrong with you Lava,

Look clown I don't like Paradox that is my agenda, and if voicing that offend you to you need to get a grip, ITS A GAME ! .

You start that BS cut and past from other forums just to make a point to flame and argue over MY opinion of a developer is just lame and childish.

Why would I not leave a post at MMG forums if that is my opinion, I am a customer same as most on the forums. If this is the attitude I can expect from you and the MMG forums I will be a lot better off with out your community and GAME.


I was wrong maybe this is a good fit Paradox/MMG



pasternakski -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:11:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lava
Lame Lava
Lame?

Here is lame, from MMG's forum:

How about you discuss matter germane to these forums and leave the MMG (whatever that is) crapola to sink or swim on its own over there (wherever that is).

Despite his occasional uncalled for crapping on my parade (I know, Sarge, I don't have a parade, but it sounds good, right?), Sarge is a veteran poster and, if I dare suggest it, is respected here. He doesn't deserve someone wandering in the door, promoting a product, then honking the horn of everyone who doesn't respond favorably.

I don't know what your agenda is in promoting another company's games on these forums (I can guess from your avatar, but I leave conclusions to others), but it smacks of spamming to me (and we all know what spam sounds like when it hits the wall - don't we? C'mon, support me here, hasn't anyone else thrown a can of Spam up against a wall - just in the interest of scientific experimentation?)



EnPeaSea -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:30:18 AM)

I see a publishing partnership with Paradox to be a good thing for MMG.

Out of the niche strategy publishers (Paradox, Matrix, Shrapnel, Battlefront, ect. . .) Paradox probably has the broadest retail coverage in North America. If MMG's goal is a traditional 'retail release' rather then 'online/mail order' release, the Paradox would be a logical choice.

Setting aside the issue of the quality of Paradox's internally developed games, it seems pretty clear to me that Paradox is an involved publisher that does not shy away from post release support. Plus, they seem to treat their partners fairly which is more then can be expected from the publishing industry.

MMG's alternative for a retail release would have been companies like Activision Value and Dreamcatcher Games. Companies that are known for bare bones pre-lease support, non-existant post -release support, and annoying starforce-eqse copy protection schemes.





EnPeaSea -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:38:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski

He doesn't deserve someone wandering in the door, promoting a product, then honking the horn of everyone who doesn't respond favorably.


Man, this forum is a seasoned place if someone with 700+ posts is only considered to have just 'wandered in the door' [:D][;)]





Bodhi -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:50:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: EnPeaSea

Man, this forum is a seasoned place if someone with 700+ posts is only considered to have just 'wandered in the door' [:D][;)]



I doubt it's a linear scale for the roll of honour because you can become a "veteran poster" after 1270+ posts. [:D]



ravinhood -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 4:59:14 AM)

quote:

My main interest is pomoting independent game producers.



Sure don't see him promoting Ron Dockals Schwerpunkt AGW like he does MM's games. I think your main interest is promoting MM. Which is perfectly fine, but, for many of us you can promote to the moon as we demote to the moon Paradox published titles. You aren't going to change us or stop us, might as well quit trying.



Confederate_Beagler -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 5:01:14 AM)

Ok, I might get gang-raped here because I am part of the MMG team, but I don't plan on tossing any spam. Ok, maybe a spoonfull.[;)]

I personally have had pretty good experiences with Paradox games, but for those of you who haven't, don't let the fact that Paradox is publishing this scare you away from a fine game. Except for localization and a final few bugs, the game is finished. Therefore, I don't see how Paradox can affect the quality of the game one way or the other. All they are doing for us is putting it in boxes, getting it on store shelves, and some advertizing.



pasternakski -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 5:22:56 AM)

Nobody gets gang raped around here.

Nobody cares how many posts you have before you qualify as not having "wandered in the door" (many a drunk says many a word before being tossed).

Hi. I'm nobody.

I am simply saying that this is not the place to market your goods by way of berating the opinions of those who peacefully habituate these climes (sorry, been reading Byron again).

Sarge deserved far better than the beating he got from someone whose avatar is an image taken from one of your games.



ravinhood -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 5:42:26 AM)

quote:

I love Civil War era games. Does this thing have co-op play or H2H?


Nope.



Cap Mandrake -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 5:46:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

quote:

I love Civil War era games. Does this thing have co-op play or H2H?


Nope.


Major bummer.



rhondabrwn -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 5:58:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sarge

WTF is wrong with you Lava,

Look clown I don't like Paradox that is my agenda, and if voicing that offend you to you need to get a grip, ITS A GAME ! .

You start that BS cut and past from other forums just to make a point to flame and argue over MY opinion of a developer is just lame and childish.

Why would I not leave a post at MMG forums if that is my opinion, I am a customer same as most on the forums. If this is the attitude I can expect from you and the MMG forums I will be a lot better off with out your community and GAME.


I was wrong maybe this is a good fit Paradox/MMG



Ah, come on Sarge, thank Lava and Company for giving you guys a chance to indulge in one of your favorite forum topics (bashing Paradox). Look on the bright side of things!

And a big Happy New Year to you all! [:'(]



mogami -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 6:01:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor

For those of you who are Mad Minute fans, they have finalized things with Paradox recently for Take Command: 2nd Manassas to be released April 18th in most markets.





Hi, That is the post that began this thread. It is addressed to fans of the game. It does not appear to warrant what followed.
I first became aware of Madminute from a post on these boards almost 2 years ago. I have followed the development with interest and from what I have seen Madminute delivered the game they promised.



Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 6:40:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn



Ah, come on Sarge, thank Lava and Company for giving you guys a chance to indulge in one of your favorite forum topics (bashing Paradox). Look on the bright side of things!

And a big Happy New Year to you all! [:'(]


Come on rhondabrwn, you know thats not my favorite topic to bash [;)][:D]

You have a good New Year also



Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 6:49:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: pasternakski



Sarge deserved far better than the beating he got from someone whose avatar is an image taken from one of your games.



No sweat, the Einstein is so busy trying to flame he forgot to read my post [:D]

I love MMG first title and stated so, hell even like the forums over there. What has his shorts in a bundle is anyone's guess. [sm=crazy.gif]



freyrod -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 7:34:03 AM)

For me, I don't care who Sarge is. I own most Matrix titles, Battlefront titles, Talonsoft, etc. titles and I saw his original unedited posting against Lava. Not good.[&:]

Be that as it may, Sarge did say he loves the MMG game. Which is what this post is about before someone hijacked it. My post will say it's number 1, but I forgot my prevoius log on.

Question to everyone, I began playing wargames in the 70's. The hex was a big innovation in board games 30 years ago. Why do I still see it in computer games? Nostalgia? To me, using the power of the computer to make hex based, turn based, games is like picking up dog crap with a D9 Caterpillar.

With that in mind, I love the Take Command game I have so far and will support these guys with all my power. Like I do Gary Grigsby, Frank Hunter, etc. Now the MMG team is trying to change the traditional wargame (along with a few others, some mentioned above) and use the power of the computer to take us back in time. Whether MMG does that with Paradox or not, who really cares? I mean really? If you are a true wargamer, you will buy the title regardless, because you are a fool not to. And if you don't, then I hope you enjoy the Sims 25th edition.

Though I disagree with Sarge's mannerisms at times, he is a true grognard in that he recognizes good titles. This is one of those you don't want to miss, regardless of prejudices founded upon what? (HOI) Who was the actual designer/developer? I say we kill any poor buggars who decide to make a game.[X(]



Sarge -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 8:10:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freyrod

For me, I don't care who Sarge is. I own most Matrix titles, Battlefront titles, Talonsoft, etc. titles and I saw his original unedited posting against Lava. Not good.[&:]




How is it you know anything about me, you just resistered about 5 min ago [:D]

PS: the edit was a spelling correction save the BS




freyrod -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 8:22:12 AM)

Your "edit" was more than that, but it may have taken some time out of your 16 hour day[:D]



ravinhood -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 8:34:42 AM)

quote:

I have followed the development with interest and from what I have seen Madminute delivered the game they promised.


Actually they didn't, their initial promise was to deliver a game with ALL the major battles of the Civil War in one package for around $60. Of course that changed when the cha ching of "hey lets just sell modules of the game and make oodles more money". So, now we get Bull Run, Bull Run again, basically more BS. lol By the time they get to Gettysburg their engine will be as old as Paradox's old and used engine from the origional EU.



Veldor -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 9:34:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: freyrod

Which is what this post is about before someone hijacked it.

Question to everyone


Now who is hijacking it? [;)]

quote:

I began playing wargames in the 70's. The hex was a big innovation in board games 30 years ago. Why do I still see it in computer games? Nostalgia? To me, using the power of the computer to make hex based, turn based, games is like picking up dog crap with a D9 Caterpillar.


First, as many will point out, any wargame uses a grid at some level or scale. Whether they are dots, triangles or hexes they are there. Hexes are just one form of abstraction and are generally more abstract than some newer alternatives. The irony is most grogs probably prefer hexes yet most non-hex games are probably more realistic and hence more historically accurate. This is just one of many grog wargamer paradox's (pun intended).

Personally I like hexes because of their extreme abstraction. It allows a certain exactness and predictability that lets you better comprehend the situation and form strategies. For those that like to micro-manage lots of elements (Probably again a-historical but yet again something most grogs like.. Paradox #2) turns and hexes work well for micro management.

ETC ETC Nothing in wargaming makes much sense to me. Neither the games nor the attitudes towards them of people who play them. I think everyone is wrong. Both sides and everyone in the middle. And all developers who claim their methods and models are the most historically accurate.

It's all BS. They are just games. ALL of them. And not a one of them is anywhere damn near realistic or historically accurate. There are just some games that are a 1 out of 10 on the scale and better ones that maybe get a 4 out of 10.

Battlefield Europe or whatever its called is probably a more realistic WW2 simulation in many aspects and probably more historically accurate in others. Each game picks and chooses what it wants to simulate in detail and what it wants to leave out or abstract. There is no ultimate wargame and such a thing can never exist... As it wouldn't be a game at all.

So just play the games and have fun.

Wishing Paradox ill will is like killing one of the last 3 women alive on earth. She may or may not be uglier than the other 2, but there just aren't enough of them to go around...




*Lava* -> RE: Paradox signs Mad Minute Games (12/31/2005 12:06:55 PM)

Hey,

Well sorry if I PO anybody, but yes I am a fanatic for the game, so please excuse my over enthusiasm.

Getting back to the announcement.. what Paradox brings to MMG is some real muscle in the marketing department. Here's a few links I found following their announcement of the game:


http://www.dreamstation.cc/news/video_games/id8706

http://www.paradoxplaza.com/news.asp?ArticleID=269&Page=News

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=30817&mode=thread&order=0

http://www.gamepressure.com/news.asp?ID=21214

http://www.wargamer.com/news/news.asp?nid=2926

http://www.combatsim.com/

http://www.gamershell.com/news/27106.html

http://www.gamestar.de/news/pc-spiele/strategie/30509/

http://www.spel2.se/nyheter/2005/12/29/2798.html

http://games.tiscali.cz/news/news.asp?id=16524

http://www.gbase.ch/global/news/23970.html

Things sure seem to be starting off in the right direction.

And that is exactly the kinda thing MMG needs.

Ray (alias Lava)



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