RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (Full Version)

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aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/12/2007 12:51:25 PM)

True. But I think I'am about trigger much more than just Kamikazes with my plans! [8|][:D]

BB West Virginia was hit by 2 torpedoes. She is not too badly damaged but has have to turn around and head to Pearl Harbour.

Here is the current situation near Iwo Jima.

[image]local://upfiles/15617/53B5DB60A84A432285D238455183A983.jpg[/image]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/12/2007 12:55:08 PM)

Also an picture from North Pacific.



[image]local://upfiles/15617/6C324CDFB6284252A58B246D2671D082.jpg[/image]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/13/2007 11:13:17 AM)

Game date is 18th of May 1944
 
 
The operations near Iwo Jima continue.

The lossess so far have been costly. Japanese have managed to hit several allied Battleships:

BB Idaho, BB South Dakota, BB Missisippi, BB West Virginia and BB California + some escorting ships.

None of these ships are in danger to sink but will be out of the action for sometime.

Otherwise it seems that Iwo Jima base should fall.


Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 6374 troops, 155 guns, 5 vehicles, Assault Value = 264

Defending force 41831 troops, 397 guns, 41 vehicles, Assault Value = 1107



Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Guns lost 1


...oh well the show continues... [:D]



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/13/2007 9:11:22 PM)

Invading iwo without marcus ? thats some seriously long trips home for the damaged ships . Can japan base Torp bombers at marcus ? else your escort convoys will need CV cover thats needed at Iwo.

rather brave move [;)]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/13/2007 9:20:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Invading iwo without marcus ? thats some seriously long trips home for the damaged ships . Can japan base Torp bombers at marcus ? else your escort convoys will need CV cover thats needed at Iwo.

rather brave move [;)]


Yeah. Unfortunately I did not have time to Marcus. He has 21 units there. The airfield there is closed down though. (LBA strikes from Wake)

..but he can hit me from Bonins and Marianas. (So the supply dilemma is there)

I have/will offload +100 000 men into Iwo Jima. There will be support for +500 aircraft too. I will also move some surface vessels in there in order to deal with any naval threat.

Definately CV's will be needed. Once I establsh the base I will move my CV's into Wake where they will refuel and link up with some additional CVE's. Once done they will head out immediately.

Brave or stupid... propably both unless I'am lucky... [:D][8|]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/15/2007 8:19:35 PM)

The Iwo Jima operation is not going too well....! [:(]

A lot of allied transports are hit near Iwo Jima. It is extremely hard to provide decent CAP with 3 day turns. (Unfortunately)... and he has been having a field day here.

To add to this my deliberate assault failed on the first day.... [8|]

Ground combat at Iwo Jima
 
Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 39708 troops, 370 guns, 62 vehicles, Assault Value = 1737

Defending force 12430 troops, 193 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 334

Allied max assault: 957 - adjusted assault: 477

Japanese max defense: 243 - adjusted defense: 580

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)


Japanese ground losses:
100 casualties reported
Guns lost 10
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
425 casualties reported
Guns lost 29
Vehicles lost 1


This basically means that I could provide LBA CAP for next turn either since 0:1 odds meant that I was not able assault on the next two days... [:-]

Oohh.. I have moved my CV back towards Iwo Jima but these ships are low on fuel and I really need to have LBA cover. (Actually already should have)

These developments will mean that more transports will be hit next turn... and if the ground assault fails yet again than sayonara... [8|]

This PBEM has not gone my way at all. Sometimes bad luck sometimes poor judgement.

Anyway, hopefully I can capture Iwo or else it will be pretty much game over for allied side.

Yeah, he lost +100 planes last turn too but those kind of lossess don't hurt him a dam bit due to huge production numbers Japanese can put together.



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/16/2007 9:34:14 PM)

quote:


Japanese max defense: 243 - adjusted defense: 580

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)


Japanese ground losses:
100 casualties reported
Guns lost 10
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
425 casualties reported
Guns lost 29
Vehicles lost 1


almost 1-1 on AV , and low losses too, so thats a more positive approach[:D]

As your probably aware BUT just in case ..

LRCAP can be sent to fly at out of range ships, the planes will rest untill the TF gets to within
range then start to fly (weather permitting) but 3 day LRCAP will cause horrible morale
and disruption.You'll need to plan well ahead though.

Seems like 3 day turns are a lot tougher than 2 day ones (1 day turns are too slow imo).






aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/16/2007 11:39:59 PM)

Cheers Rob! The AV values are in his favour from last turn. He seems to be flying more troops into Iwo Jima. (Nothing I can do to stop this)

Yeah.. LRCAP is good but with these turn cycles of 3 it will be pretty much useless since I really cannot control my ships adequately... and yes there is huge diffrence between 2 or 3 day turns... and I can recommend 2 day cycles which in my mind are the best pace! [:)]

As for the game... well if Iwo Jima operation stalls than the game is pretty much over. There is noway in h*** to comeback in this one without this base. I don't have troops nor the ships on which to transport them. [:(]




Rob Brennan UK -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 5:06:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Cheers Rob! The AV values are in his favour from last turn. He seems to be flying more troops into Iwo Jima. (Nothing I can do to stop this)

Yeah.. LRCAP is good but with these turn cycles of 3 it will be pretty much useless since I really cannot control my ships adequately... and yes there is huge diffrence between 2 or 3 day turns... and I can recommend 2 day cycles which in my mind are the best pace! [:)]

As for the game... well if Iwo Jima operation stalls than the game is pretty much over. There is noway in h*** to comeback in this one without this base. I don't have troops nor the ships on which to transport them. [:(]



quote:

z)
Post #: 454


whoops ! .. allied player dying in 44 ? should be stickied imo

i'm familiar with 2 day turns but why are 3 day so much tougher ? I wont play a game not on 2 day turns from now on , surely 3 day isn't so bad ( statisically should be 1/3more dangerous than 2 day turns ) ..

the things i feel 3 day turns really hurt are

1) main fleet elements getting into trouble and no withdrawl ~( maybe use retire command ?_

2) LR CAP will be heavily fatigued , but so will escort and bombers . esp high morale jap nell/betty
units will fly to the last man vs. heavy cap . so that imo should be even. am i missing something ?

as for ships ? you should have 1000's in total but i do understand the need to prioritise
the theatres they are assigned to . did you send a shed load of british AK's to the USA early on?
can really help imo .

AP's keep in india .. for future fun and games .. BUT its too easy to send 100+ AK's and starve the
SEAC with transports ( i'd do my game differently )

and as ever good luck



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 9:34:23 AM)

Maybe not dying but loosing "intrest".

Last turn yet a same. He lost +450 planes... I lost ships... the first assault was 0:1... etc.

You asked what is the diffrence in 3 day turns.

a) Ground combat. Once you stumble 0:1 odds on the first day than that means your opponent will get 2 extra days to rest. That plays a huge diffrence. Also he will 2 extra days to bring in reinforcements. So in many cases you are screwed. As in this one. (This does not play that huge role in early years since most of the bases are garrisoned midly.)

b) With 3 day turns your TF "wander" way too much. Thus in is very hard to co-ordinate a succesfull operations.

Yeah. I did send some but I have transports in WC, India and Australia. (Not enough in CenPac and North Pacific)






Sardaukar -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 11:40:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Yeah.. LRCAP is good but with these turn cycles of 3 it will be pretty much useless since I really cannot control my ships adequately... and yes there is huge diffrence between 2 or 3 day turns... and I can recommend 2 day cycles which in my mind are the best pace! [:)]


Agree !! 2-day turns are the best compomise between smooth gameplay and controllability.



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 12:45:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Yeah.. LRCAP is good but with these turn cycles of 3 it will be pretty much useless since I really cannot control my ships adequately... and yes there is huge diffrence between 2 or 3 day turns... and I can recommend 2 day cycles which in my mind are the best pace! [:)]


Agree !! 2-day turns are the best compomise between smooth gameplay and controllability.




So, True! The 3 day turns are a bit too much for the game engine to handle.



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 4:22:19 PM)

I'd forgotten about 'wandering' TF's ,, some idiot commander goes out and gets himself slaughtered. At least in 2 day turns they cant got too far out of position (although thats plenty to get into trouble).

Ground combat i also hadnt thought about, those 2 day rest turns are very very important but i guess it slows down map movement a bit :)
BUT given the complete guessing nature of the ground combat model i can see your point. Also continued attacks with no rest turns will wear down the attacker on day 3 really badly too. many opportunities for the AI to decimate your own forces [:@]

Sadurkar- ~I'm happy for you [8D], sun ,sand and WW2 relics littering the sea floor ( go scuba diving ) .. must be plenty of ships and even a/c to dive on there.



Sardaukar -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/17/2007 6:15:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Sadurkar- ~I'm happy for you [8D], sun ,sand and WW2 relics littering the sea floor ( go scuba diving ) .. must be plenty of ships and even a/c to dive on there.


Might be...but they just caught something like 10m long white shark too here !! There was a pic of it on local newspaper 2 weeks ago. So I rather let someone else to be a shark bait...[:'(][:D]

Fiancee is so good cook that I did gain 2.5 kg of extra weight in first 4 weeks...have to work those off...[8D]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/18/2007 9:57:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob Brennan UK

Sadurkar- ~I'm happy for you [8D], sun ,sand and WW2 relics littering the sea floor ( go scuba diving ) .. must be plenty of ships and even a/c to dive on there.


Might be...but they just caught something like 10m long white shark too here !! There was a pic of it on local newspaper 2 weeks ago. So I rather let someone else to be a shark bait...[:'(][:D]

Fiancee is so good cook that I did gain 2.5 kg of extra weight in first 4 weeks...have to work those off...[8D]




[:D][:D] ...You are one lucky #¤#%# Sardaukar....[:D]

As for this game it is ongoing. Everything has gone as I expected them to go ----> to toilet! [:(][:-]

I have few plans brewing. I will commit my troops fully soon.



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/22/2007 6:20:15 PM)

This game is still going. Dave is loading more troops into Iwo Jima and I have my CV's parked nearby.

Another annoyance I found last turn. I had loaded áround 150 000 men into ships at Wake Island to land at Iwo Jima. I already have around 100 000 there bogged down.

Now that I checked the status of my transports I notice that there are under 30 000 men on the ships! The AI seems to have unloaded them while the ships sailed towards Iwo.

Great. The suprise element is definately gone now and my invasion TF are sailing around 1/3 full. A lot of the AK's are empty!!! [8|][:(][:@]

I have also started unloading massive amount of troops into Akyab. The idea is strike via land towards Rangoon.

Allthough the latest "bug" that I saw really shocked me! [8|]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/31/2007 11:43:48 AM)

This is game is still ongoing.

We have now reached 17th of July 1944 and the battle of Iwo Jima rages on!!!

I think I have lost +250 ships already and several hundred ac's.

Japanese propably have lost +2500 LBA aircraft.

...I have committed +200 000 men into Iwo Jima and I'am stalled here! *ridicilious*

Here is latest combat report from last turn.


Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 181994 troops, 945 guns, 866 vehicles, Assault Value = 3653

Defending force 67830 troops, 338 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 1177

Allied max assault: 2080 - adjusted assault: 764

Japanese max defense: 1141 - adjusted defense: 7156 WTH??? 
Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 4)


Japanese ground losses:
1858 casualties reported
Guns lost 34
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
3153 casualties reported
Guns lost 71
Vehicles lost 18


Dave is using single ship TF to bring in troops and supplies. I sent him an email stating that personally this is not acceptable. I have +150 ac's attacking an single AK or AP!!!

Thus this consumes my flight opps ... also gives him an easy chance to bring in supplies... and yeah it gives him a better air to air ratios since Japanese aircraft do perform better when defending in late years.

Not to mention this 3 day turn cycles where I get 0:1 odds in first day --> gives him a rest for two days. It is quite hard to capture anything when taking these things into consideration.



ny59giants -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/31/2007 3:01:30 PM)

I think your AAR has shown further proof that 3 day cycles are too long, while I don't like 1 day cycles as too much micro-management is allowed. I feel that 2 day cycles add enough Fog of War into the mix. [&o] Plus, 1 day cycles seem to have games take longer than the actual war to complete. [:(]

As a possible house rule, there should be a minimum of at least two or three ships per TF. As the Allies, the only time I use single ships is the initial escape from Manila of the ships there. Afterwards, it gets to a "gamey" situation as everyone knows the AI will avoid attacking single ship AK/AP TF for the most part. Which creates this - [sm=00000016.gif]

I hope his modified AV was just a one turn thing as he only has level 4 fortifications.[X(]



Sardaukar -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/31/2007 3:33:34 PM)

Yes, 3-day turns seem to make game bit too uncontrollable...especially since TFs and ground units do not have rational way to act when under "TacAI". I love 2-day tuns..I think they are the way to go.



pauk -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/31/2007 6:48:42 PM)



That is why i consider gamey Allied picket line ships... It seems you need an agreement guys.... anyway nice to see that this game is still going![:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: aztez

Dave is using single ship TF to bring in troops and supplies. I sent him an email stating that personally this is not acceptable. I have +150 ac's attacking an single AK or AP!!!

Thus this consumes my flight opps ... also gives him an easy chance to bring in supplies... and yeah it gives him a better air to air ratios since Japanese aircraft do perform better when defending in late years.





aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (3/31/2007 9:22:16 PM)

Cheers Guys! I do appreciate the comments.

Definately 2 day turns are the way to go! This cycle is actually very well balanced in the game.

As for the single ships TF. It is fair to say that me and Dave disagree on this...

Since the game engine assaults those single AK or AP that gives you easy chance to bring in supplies into area that is definitely “surrounded”.
 
I think you have this backwards.  If they didn't attack the AK or AP, I could easily bring in supplies.  It's not like there's another huge convoy it's ignoring to hit the AP/AK.  You are certainly welcome to stand down your naval attacks and let me bring in my single ship TFs and I would have a ton of supply in no time!  I probably don't understand what you meant by this;  how does attacking these TFs make it easier for me to supply the area? You can consume my CV flying opps this way easily since the game send +150 ac’s against 1 single AP or AK. If the game engine was sending, say, 150 dive bombers or torpedo bombers against a single ship I would agree it's silly.  But for the most part I think the strikes have had maybe 10-30 attack planes.  the rest are escorts, and those escorts are needed to get through my 100-150 plane CAP. 
Yeah. That way get better odds for your fighters and such since they are “protecting” this single AK or AP. Correct.  The most important thing for me right now is keeping supply into Bonin/Iwo to keep them alive as correctly as possible.  So I am willing to sacrifice a fair number of fighters to get a little more supply in.  I guess it is safe to say that we do disagree on the above issues. (Unfortunately) I did send him an email with turn saying that there should minium of 3 ships per TF. (Including anykind of an TF) As for the land combat at Iwo Jima... Well going as well as "expected"!!!  Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 194008 troops, 964 guns, 911 vehicles, Assault Value = 3893

Defending force 68648 troops, 318 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 1186

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 3

Allied max assault: 2936 - adjusted assault: 1543

Japanese max defense: 1199 - adjusted defense: 4597

Allied assault odds: 0 to 1 (fort level 3)


Japanese ground losses:
2296 casualties reported
Guns lost 27
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
2556 casualties reported
Guns lost 55
Vehicles lost 31  ...[:(][8|]... Oh.. another 2 day rest for him ... cannot do anything but bring in more troops and assault every time I can... this is getting actually very ridicilious! [:(][:@] ...I have at least over 1/2 of CenPac assault points already there!!! Don't have anything personal againts Dave. He is an gentleman and reliable opponent.  



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (4/8/2007 11:47:07 AM)


Game date is 30th of August 1944


The fortress at Iwo Jima have finally fallen to allied hands.

Ground combat at Iwo Jima


Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 266836 troops, 1320 guns, 805 vehicles, Assault Value = 5580

Defending force 63985 troops, 142 guns, 1 vehicles, Assault Value = 1135

Allied max assault: 4464 - adjusted assault: 3834


Japanese max defense: 874 - adjusted defense: 1813

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Iwo Jima base !!! [:-][:-][:-]



Japanese aircraft
no flights


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3a Zero: 10 destroyed
A6M5 Zeke: 5 destroyed
B5N Kate: 1 destroyed
Ki-84-Ia Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 2 destroyed
A6M3 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K1-J George: 1 destroyed


Japanese ground losses:
2830 casualties reported
Guns lost 40
Vehicles lost 1

Allied ground losses:
1600 casualties reported
Guns lost 35
Vehicles lost 18

The battle of Iwo Jima has been one hell of an slaughter. I have lost +300 ships and +1000 aircraft. Allied ground troops took a beating too.

I think that the Japanese side lost +6000 aircraft with their operations. (See the total of losses from intel screenshot) So, needless to say that both sides are having tough times ahead.

In China I have started strategic campaign. Enemy HI industy will struck all over the map by US Airforce.

In Burma Allied spearhead in closing into Rangoon. I have much smaller force fighting at Myithkina.
Here are some screenshots from the game.



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (4/8/2007 11:47:47 AM)

...Intel screen...




[image]local://upfiles/15617/7527CAD9FF2C442DA4A041794D3E805D.jpg[/image]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (4/8/2007 11:48:44 AM)

...situation at Iwo Jima.

[image]local://upfiles/15617/15E867E3051A43E68351D5A803C48F25.jpg[/image]



aztez -> RE: KB hit hard at Wake Island... The allied push continues. (4/8/2007 11:49:32 AM)

...situation at Burma.




[image]local://upfiles/15617/997624E6A2B04A9894C9C2F5CFB37F77.jpg[/image]



aztez -> Iwo Jima captured... the losses are horrific! (4/13/2007 8:56:09 PM)

Game date is 18th of September 1944


I have finally been able capture the base at Iwo Jima. It has cost around 400 ships, around 1500 aircraft and +10 000 men casualties.

Here is the latest ground combat from Iwo Jima.


Ground combat at Iwo Jima

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 273791 troops, 1216 guns, 1153 vehicles, Assault Value = 4626

Defending force 44049 troops, 18 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 706

Allied max assault: 3640 - adjusted assault: 2655

Japanese max defense: 550 - adjusted defense: 409

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
508 casualties reported
Guns lost 5

Allied ground losses:
1820 casualties reported
Guns lost 39
Vehicles lost 16


Dave has hammered my transports, destroyers and CV's from Marianas, Iwo Jima and Bonin's.

I think he has lost more than 6000 aircraft in past few months. Here is an example replay of the latest airstrike againts Tinian.


Day Air attack on Tinian , at 62,65

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zeke x 16
J2M Jack x 27
Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 56

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 100
F6F Hellcat x 100
SB2C Helldiver x 63
TBM Avenger x 342

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zeke: 34 destroyed
J2M Jack: 30 destroyed
Ki-43-IIa Oscar: 58 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIb Nick: 4 destroyed
Ki-46-III Dinah: 1 destroyed
G4M2 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 20 destroyed, 3 damaged
F6F Hellcat: 44 destroyed, 12 damaged
SB2C Helldiver: 8 damaged
TBM Avenger: 4 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
257 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Airbase hits 39
Airbase supply hits 4
Runway hits 163


You can see that I do have lost a lot of aircraft on these types of battles.

Next turn however LBA aircraft will step into action. An large airstrike is ordered againts Tokyo!

I have been bombing HI from China constantly in past weeks. I really need to start hurting him somehow but Dave has propably stockpiled a lot of supplies so.... [8|]

Here is an overview screenshot from the current state...




[image]local://upfiles/15617/3466414D54E94604B9E499152450382F.jpg[/image]



aztez -> RE: Iwo Jima captured... the losses are horrific! (4/13/2007 8:57:11 PM)

An screenshot from the overall score. I'am getting my butt kicked... that is for sure.




[image]local://upfiles/15617/737B986E3F0545B183B3C1EFEC291EAE.jpg[/image]



Feinder -> RE: Iwo Jima captured... the losses are horrific! (4/13/2007 11:12:44 PM)

Wow.  1914 Allied strategic losses.  Where'd that come from?  He bomb Oz or WC?

-F-



aztez -> RE: Iwo Jima captured... the losses are horrific! (4/13/2007 11:51:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

Wow.  1914 Allied strategic losses.  Where'd that come from?  He bomb Oz or WC?

-F-



Those strategic losses were from Oz. (Thankfully, I think he might have had an chance to bomb WC too if he had chosen to do so)



Rob Brennan UK -> RE: Iwo Jima captured... the losses are horrific! (4/14/2007 2:37:57 AM)

finally caught up here .. and the points do look odd :)

ah well . less luck in our game [;)]



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