RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (Full Version)

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CobraAus -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 4:44:08 AM)

v2.55 for CVO-RAO-BBO link is now in link page

This is still not quite 2.60, but it is getting there.

1) All allied submarines reworked for ammunition (to correspond to Japanese submarines) - and be in sync with the WITP "shots" system (instead of wholly fictional).

2) Reworking of Dutch abbreviations per comments from the Netherlands.

3) Correction of what may be the last remaining device issues.

4) Correction of many data field issues in many records - wether or not they matter - including many that disabled radar, weapons, etc.

5) Restoring 8 lost blimps and correction of all blimp "turret" fields (not sure blimps really have turrets, but in WITP they do!)

6) Correcting of ship upgrade paths where these were nonsensical.

7) Whatever I forgot to put on the list.

BBO changes

Major additions to Allied submarines and DE fleet

(Half of DEs are gone, slow ones move at full speed - twice installed power -
half of late war subs are medium instead of fleet - and all DEs have 3 inch guns
- to save steel for the big ships and also to provide 5 inch secondary guns for them)

BBO should release tomorrow at 2.60 level


Cobra AUs



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 8:44:23 PM)

quote:

Why have the following planes no rockets.

F4U-4 Corsair
F7F Tigercat
F8F-1 Bearcat
P-51B Mustang
P-51D Mustang
Beaufighter Mk X
Thunderbolt II
IL-2M Shturmovik


RHS is experimental. Rockets are experimental. They were actually first invented (in WWII aircraft use) by the British for use against submarines - and the game starts with the very first aircraft to use them: the Swordfish. [It isn't a torpedo bomber any more - by the end of 1941 it is considered obsolete in that role]. But the British went on to apply the SAME rockets for ground attack purposes. Since the experimental device is the same, and appears later in the war - largely on American planes in British service - it was easy to add them for that. [Note the is the ONLY role for which rockets are known to work: I have reports of successful attacks against surface targets using rockets].

There was a similar US FFAR - only larger - and I found a slot and added that one. And to be somewhat fair, I added a late war Japanese rocket - a small and short ranged one - yet it adds another application - bomber killing - a German concept also of the late war period.

Yet another application was later marks of medium bombers - American these - and you will note them on B-25G and H (I think).

We do not yet know if the rockets work? If they DO work - in air air combat as I intended - maybe they work too well? That is, without ammo limits (which at present WITP lacks for air combat), might the rockets fire over and over - 100 times? This may require adjustment - or even not using the devices at all.

One issue is that American fighters did NOT have rockets when introduced - so we go ahistoric if we put them on early models.

There are problems adding rockets - it requires review of the load calculations and it requires (often) the plane be rated to carry no bombs - so I added only a sample set for various purposes. I want to know if they work- and if there are any problems? They can be added to other planes - if appropriate.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 8:46:12 PM)

quote:

You can also use NEIAF.


If English only readers complain too much - I will. But I think history buffs will like using "correct" abbreviations. Note many Japanese air units have names like daitai, sentai, shotai, kokutai, etc. No complains yet - and a lot of this is in stock.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 8:49:19 PM)

quote:

4th: What slot number is Voykov?

slot 3811


She is Russian and should be set to "Soviet" - of course. Will be in future releases.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 8:54:34 PM)

quote:

The Tiger Brigade was a Named Brigade of Regulair Infantry from the Netherlands. You can named this NEI or NE Tiger Brigade

The TO&E of Tiger Brigade was alike a British Infantry Brigade

The TO&E of the Marine Brigade was alike a reinforced USMC Brigade (3 later 4 Infantry, Engineer, 105mm Bn Art; Recon; Tank Co)


OK - look for this in either 2.57 or 2.60 - whichever is next.



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 9:05:22 PM)

El Cid Again

There are equipment that you have give to the KNIL Mobiele Eenheid, but never had.

1. 6 pdr AT-gun (Dutch has 47mm AT Gun)This also for other KNIL/Netherlands units. Only the Tiger Brigade had this AT gun.

2. M7 Priest?



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 9:28:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

You can also use NEIAF.


If English only readers complain too much - I will. But I think history buffs will like using "correct" abbreviations. Note many Japanese air units have names like daitai, sentai, shotai, kokutai, etc. No complains yet - and a lot of this is in stock.


I think that the following is very strange.

The full writing name in Engels is Dutch East Indies
In Dutch it is Nederland Indie (Netherlands Indies)
The abbrev is NEI



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 9:34:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
- From 1 Augustus 1942 Korps Insulinde. A reinforced Company of Commando's, some Marines/Infantry.

Korps Insulinde is about 4 platoons, included 1 platoon Marines. Armed with Small Arms. Commander is Molders. In game terms 10 Dutch Squads, 3 Sapper Squads, 4 Marine Squad



Korps Insulinde had also receive parachute training, and did parts drop for recon missions. Some of the parachute trained made later part of NEI-FIS in Australia.



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 9:43:13 PM)

Missing Squadrons

1. No 19 RAAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Dakota.
2. No 121 RAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Catalina.
3. 250th Mexican Sqn (USAAF) equiped with Thunderbolts



CobraAus -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 10:15:41 PM)

V2.56 minor update link posted on Rapidshare link page

Tests running while I worked today indicate I failed to get the unit prefixes perfectly -
so I went through the entire location file and renamed every unit without a proper prefix.

I also increased a number of Japanese supply sinks to full size - for a final test to insure the system works with the planned supply system (where supplies that make no sense generated by a resource center are "eaten" by a "supply sink").

There are a few more things to resolve - and no doubt a few I have not yet heard about - but first some sleep. Maybe we get to 2.60 tomorrow.

BBO changes

No changes at all here except the location file - that is this is the same as other 2.56 level scenarios - better unit prefixes and some expanded Japanese supply sinks. Of course, a few minor errors were also corrected - as always - but in this case limited to land units or locations (for example - 10 resource centers had become "American Airborne Squads" - and they are resource centers again!)

I failed to mention that at level 2.55 Russian submarines - which had gone missing somewhere along the line - were reinstated for RAO (and BBO).

Cobra Aus



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 10:30:30 PM)

quote:

There are equipment that you have give to the KNIL Mobiele Eenheid, but never had.

1. 6 pdr AT-gun (Dutch has 47mm AT Gun)This also for other KNIL/Netherlands units. Only the Tiger Brigade had this AT gun.

2. M7 Priest?


I guess I have command responsibility for RHS - but I did not give them these things! This was done for CHS - and I left it alone - pending correction. Corrected. The M7 - is a late war US SP weapon - did Dutch have such things? It is likely a changed device - I can look it up in CHS.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 10:31:42 PM)

quote:

I think that the following is very strange.

The full writing name in Engels is Dutch East Indies
In Dutch it is Nederland Indie (Netherlands Indies)
The abbrev is NEI


Me too. Note that until corrected by you (to use the international standard) I was using DEI - makes more sense in English.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 10:33:37 PM)

quote:

Korps Insulinde had also receive parachute training, and did parts drop for recon missions. Some of the parachute trained made later part of NEI-FIS in Australia.


I can make them airborne - but if part of ABDA they won't fly! If part of a different command they will.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 10:34:55 PM)

quote:

1. No 19 RAAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Dakota.
2. No 121 RAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Catalina.
3. 250th Mexican Sqn (USAAF) equiped with Thunderbolts


I can add - but I need

1) Date entered to PTO
2) Machine count
3) Source of data



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 11:01:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

Korps Insulinde had also receive parachute training, and did parts drop for recon missions. Some of the parachute trained made later part of NEI-FIS in Australia.


I can make them airborne - but if part of ABDA they won't fly! If part of a different command they will.



Let them be UK Southeast Asia HQ. The NEI had surrenderd before they where ready for action (1 Aug 1942 columbo)



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 11:03:02 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

There are equipment that you have give to the KNIL Mobiele Eenheid, but never had.

1. 6 pdr AT-gun (Dutch has 47mm AT Gun)This also for other KNIL/Netherlands units. Only the Tiger Brigade had this AT gun.

2. M7 Priest?


I guess I have command responsibility for RHS - but I did not give them these things! This was done for CHS - and I left it alone - pending correction. Corrected. The M7 - is a late war US SP weapon - did Dutch have such things? It is likely a changed device - I can look it up in CHS.


They had only in the musea's the M7 Priest, but never in the armed forces.



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/24/2006 11:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

1. No 19 RAAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Dakota.
2. No 121 RAF Sqn a Dutch squadron with Catalina.
3. 250th Mexican Sqn (USAAF) equiped with Thunderbolts


I can add - but I need

1) Date entered to PTO
2) Machine count
3) Source of data



121st Sqdn (MLD) Ceylon from July 42 to december 44
12 catalina's from the UK
9 catalina's escapes from NEI
From december 1944 patrol B-24 Liberators

Source De Vliegende Hollanders (The Flying Dutchs)

19th NEI Sdn RAAF raised out NEI Transport Section on 1 February 44
Machine count ? Suggest standard RAAF Transport sqn.
Same source

same source listed 18th Sqn RAAF and 120th Sqn RAAF as 18th NEI Sdn RAAF and 120th NEI Sdn RAAF

I have made a mistake it's not the 250th Mexican Sqn, but the 201st Mexican Fighter Squadron

Here some links about the 201st
http://www.avalanchepress.com/MexicanAirForce.php
http://erickr0.tripod.com/
http://www.geocities.com/dutcheastindies/201squadron.html



Andrew Brown -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 3:01:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
121st Sqdn (MLD) Ceylon from July 42 to december 44
12 catalina's from the UK
9 catalina's escapes from NEI
From december 1944 patrol B-24 Liberators

Source De Vliegende Hollanders (The Flying Dutchs)

19th NEI Sdn RAAF raised out NEI Transport Section on 1 February 44
Machine count ? Suggest standard RAAF Transport sqn.
Same source

same source listed 18th Sqn RAAF and 120th Sqn RAAF as 18th NEI Sdn RAAF and 120th NEI Sdn RAAF


Just a question - how many of these aircraft and/or aircrew were originally in the DEI, and were evacuated? Or did all of the aircraft and aircrew come from Europe (presumably via UK)?




Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 10:29:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
121st Sqdn (MLD) Ceylon from July 42 to december 44
12 catalina's from the UK
9 catalina's escapes from NEI
From december 1944 patrol B-24 Liberators

Source De Vliegende Hollanders (The Flying Dutchs)

19th NEI Sdn RAAF raised out NEI Transport Section on 1 February 44
Machine count ? Suggest standard RAAF Transport sqn.
Same source

same source listed 18th Sqn RAAF and 120th Sqn RAAF as 18th NEI Sdn RAAF and 120th NEI Sdn RAAF


Just a question - how many of these aircraft and/or aircrew were originally in the DEI, and were evacuated? Or did all of the aircraft and aircrew come from Europe (presumably via UK)?


The crews of the Sqns in the RAAF are for the most part about 70 to 80% evacuated from the NEI. The others came from the UK, US West Indies etc.

Also late in the war when Allieds liberated parts of the NEI came more crews available.



JeffroK -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 10:33:40 AM)

There wasn't a 19Sqn in the RAAF

I assume you mean 119 Sqn (NEI AF) RAAF

source: Australian War Memorial



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 11:58:13 AM)

quote:


121st Sqdn (MLD) Ceylon from July 42 to december 44
12 catalina's from the UK
9 catalina's escapes from NEI
From december 1944 patrol B-24 Liberators

Source De Vliegende Hollanders (The Flying Dutchs)


OK -- you get THREE Cats in Columbo from July 42 upgrading to Liberators. The max size is 12 - so the squadron will build up to that level if in supply.



el cid again -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 12:01:27 PM)

quote:

19th NEI Sdn RAAF raised out NEI Transport Section on 1 February 44
Machine count ? Suggest standard RAAF Transport sqn.
Same source


OK - you get 12 Dakotas - but only from 15 February - I require 2 weeks to get the unit operational.




Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 12:18:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

There wasn't a 19Sqn in the RAAF
I assume you mean 119 Sqn (NEI AF) RAAF
source: Australian War Memorial


quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again

quote:

19th NEI Sdn RAAF raised out NEI Transport Section on 1 February 44
Machine count ? Suggest standard RAAF Transport sqn.
Same source


OK - you get 12 Dakotas - but only from 15 February - I require 2 weeks to get the unit operational.


I have made a little error. Sorry for it. Not the 19th NEI was raised on 1 February 44. But the NEI Transport Section

The following have I find on the web

TRANSPORT SQUADRONS
There were no formal Dutch Transport Squadrons until September 1944. There were initially two transport sections:-

NEI-Transport Section, Brisbane (NEI-TSB)
NEI-TSB was equipped with three Lockheed Lodestars and five B-25 Mitchell´s. They were based at Archerfield.

NEI-Transport Section, Melbourne (NEI-TSM)
NEI-TSM was equipped with a number of de-armed B-25 Mitchell´s and nine Lockheed Lodestars

Both of these Transport Sections were used to ferry men and material to 120 (NEI) Squadron in Merauke (later Biak) and 18 (NEI) Squadron at Batchelor.

In November 1944, both the above Transport Sections were combined into No. 1 NEI-Transport Squadron. The aircraft pool was expanded with four C-47´s and five Lockheed 12a light transports.

On 15 August 1945, the unofficial transports used by the Netherlands East Indies KLM (KNILM) was renamed 19 (NEI) Transport Squadron and officially taken on the strength of the RAAF. It had 13 Dakota´s.






Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 12:26:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

source: Australian War Memorial

Have they a website?



JeffroK -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 12:59:41 PM)

http://www.awm.gov.au/

(Be prepared to loose some sleep)

The reference to 119 Sqn is at http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/structure/raaf_codes.htm



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 1:29:50 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

http://www.awm.gov.au/

(Be prepared to loose some sleep)

The reference to 119 Sqn is at http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/structure/raaf_codes.htm



JeffK

I have look to youre sources.

And in the next link I read
http://www.awm.gov.au/alliesinadversity/australia/index.asp

Enough Dutch airmen escaped to Australia to equip an operational squadron, although shortages of ground staff remained a problem for the remainder of the war. No. 18 (NEI) Squadron, RAAF, was raised in Canberra in April 1942 and equipped with US B-25 Mitchell bombers. This unit gained an enviable reputation, operating from bases in northern Australia and Borneo. Training of new Dutch personnel was undertaken in the United States and Australia, and by 1944, there were enough pilots available to raise a fighter unit, No. 120 (NEI) Squadron, RAAF, which operated Kittyhawks from Dutch New Guinea. No. 19 Squadron (transport & communication) and No. 119 Squadron (bombers) were also raised for service.

This are then 4 Squadrons.
No. 18 NEI Sqn (Bombers)
No. 19 NEI Sqn (Transport)
No. 119 NEI Sqn (Bombers)
No. 120 NEI Sqn (Fighters)



JeffroK -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 2:44:23 PM)

Jo

I had a quick look at the RAAF History and it doesnt mention a 19 Sqn, neither does the list of Sqn Codes.

Could it have been formed as a Dutch Air Force Unit rather than a RAAF??



Andrew Brown -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 3:27:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
The crews of the Sqns in the RAAF are for the most part about 70 to 80% evacuated from the NEI. The others came from the UK, US West Indies etc.

Also late in the war when Allieds liberated parts of the NEI came more crews available.


The reason I asked about where the aircrews and aircraft came from is that, in the game players can, and do, evacuate Dutch squadrons from the DEI. If we also add these units, does that lead to a duplication, at least in part?

Andrew



Kereguelen -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 4:11:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jo van der Pluym
The crews of the Sqns in the RAAF are for the most part about 70 to 80% evacuated from the NEI. The others came from the UK, US West Indies etc.

Also late in the war when Allieds liberated parts of the NEI came more crews available.


The reason I asked about where the aircrews and aircraft came from is that, in the game players can, and do, evacuate Dutch squadrons from the DEI. If we also add these units, does that lead to a duplication, at least in part?

Andrew


Yes, it seems that Dutch squadrons (apart from No. 18 RAAF) were left out because of this. But by now (with the new disband feature from 1.8/1.81) it may be worth to add them (number of reinforcement pilots stays the same anyway) if one deletes the two Dutch Recce/Army Cooperation Squadrons flying FK.51. But the "new" Dutch RAAF/RAF squadrons should probably enter the game with a limited number of planes (1-3) and pilots (and the Dutch squadrons present at start should have no upgrade paths.

K



Jo van der Pluym -> RE: RHSCVO and RHSRAO Minor Version 2.51 Released to testers (5/25/2006 4:28:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Jo

I had a quick look at the RAAF History and it doesnt mention a 19 Sqn, neither does the list of Sqn Codes.

Could it have been formed as a Dutch Air Force Unit rather than a RAAF??


Yes, first was a Dutch Air Unit, but because troubles with Australian Civilain Workers on Airfields was het made the 19th NEI Sqdn RAAF.



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