noob's chine defence (Full Version)

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patrice strasbourg -> noob's chine defence (5/22/2006 11:15:00 PM)

Hello all;

What is the best strategie for allied player in China ? Retreate retreate or something else?

thanks for you help...

A+
Patrice



Halsey -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 1:03:32 AM)

Retreat to the nearest cities.
Fortify them.
Prep each unit for that location.

6 to 8 Corps and at least 2 to 3 HQ's for each, respectively.
Forward cities with easy approach's get the most.

4 to 6 Corps behind the river that's behind Changsa, as a reserve.

Replace Corps in rear area cities with Divisions.
They protect against paratroopers, and free up extra Corps.

Send 4 to 6 Corps plus 2 to 3 HQ's to Sian as soon as possible.
Move outlying Corps in the north to Yenen, fast.

At start turn replacements off.
They use too much supply.

Only leave units forward of cities until you see that they are outnumbered.
Place your cursor over enemy units to give you an approximate count.

Do not attack Hanoi.
You need those troops for defense.
Move them into the China interior.

The SEAC Chinese Divisions can threaten Burma.
They are also air transportable.
They can be used to help in India if needed.

These are the basic moves.
I hope they help.



ctangus -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 1:18:27 AM)

Hi,

Against the AI, there's a thread a few down called the "Chinese & Russkies". That will do.

For PBEM, I'm not an expert, but I think I'm one of the few allied players who likes the China game, now that I understand it a little. Supplies, experience & flanking maneuvers are key.

1. Play on AB's map. [;)] You still need to pay attention, but the slower movement gives you a better time to respond.
2. Ensure you place some sort of garrison in every city (anti-para defense).
3. Garrison frontline cities strongly, particularly key crossroads like Changsha. Have a corps or two or 3 in place outside the city to prevent or slow a flanking maneuver.
4. Try to build a mobile fire brigade of a dozen or so corps to move to a threatened area.
5. Major counter-attacks aren't possible early, but small ones are. 3 Japanese units guarding a city, and 10 Chinese corps a couple hexes away? Go for it - even if you lose experience goes up. Lone Japanese unit in a clear hex? Ditto.
6. Build forts when you can. My rule of thumb is I build them when supplies are in the "white" and don't when they aren't.

AFAIK experience gain produces linear results in combat performance. E.g. a 30 exp unit will fight twice as poorly as a 60 exp unit. Heck, I've got an Oct 42 game where a have a dozen or so Corps in the 90s. To improve experience I:

1. Any unit under 45 exp keeps its original prep location until it reaches 45 exp (max for Chinese by this method). (I might make an exception or two for garrisons way behind the front lines.)
2. Try to develop a large stalemate battle or two, where neither side can move the other out of the hex. Just trading bombardments will build your experience up to about 60. If you repulse a shock attack or two by 150,000 Japanese, it really goes up. You can then rotate units through, so that all your troops get a little blooding.

On supply:
1. Fight for the Burma road. Keeping it open really helps.
2. Any base in the "white" will allow you to pull in replacements for your LCUs. Make sure severely damaged units are in such a base.
3. To force supply out of Chungking to other bases, move the China HQ out for a few turns. The extra supply Chiang Kai Shek is hoarding will move to the other bases. (Rob Brennan patented method.) Although supply movement is supposed to be better in 1.8.
4. You can move transports to Ledo, etc., to fly the hump & fly supplies in.
5. I don't initiate strategic bombing in the area. If your opponent starts bombing your resources, consider doing the same to him - even random raids against the Home Islands. I'm not sure who would win that battle - probably the Japanese - but you could make it painful.
6. Since resources stop producing when an enemy is in a hex, try to fight your stalemate battles on his ground, not yours.

Gawd - I wrote a novel. Hope it helps.



Halsey -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 1:20:43 AM)

One more thing.[;)]

Divide some of your Corps in every now and then.
Then recombine them once in awhile.

Just don't do this when the units are moving.
It will reset them to zero on their movement.

This throws off the enemy's ability to count the units in the hex with his cursor.
It keeps him guessing as to what your true strength really is.

I'm guessing that this is for PBEM.[;)]
Be more conservative if you are playing a human.



ctangus -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 1:28:41 AM)

Yep, what Halsey said.

You can even space it out over a few days so it looks like units are trickling in. Divide a corps - wait 4-5 days & divide another, etc.[:)]



niceguy2005 -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 2:05:16 AM)

After a couple of rough games I think I am beginning to get the hang of China.

All the above is good advise. I would add that realize that if your opponent is dedicated to offensive action in China you are going to probably lose ground. Be proactive about what you lose. Plan ahead where you will retreat to and build forts there.

Don't waste supplies building unnecessary forts and especially air fields.

Don't let your defence become static - I made a big mistake here. Good opponents will try and flank you. Send corp in 1s and 2s out to protect your flanks - use terrain bonuses to protect your flankers and make them stronger.

Rotate your units, sending some back to bases with extra supply to rebuild disabled elements, keeping replacements off.

Watch out if the Japanese control all the rail lines. They will have a serious movement advantage and can flank you easily. If you loose the rail line fall back inland. Make them take the slower roads to attack you.



patrice strasbourg -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/23/2006 10:52:50 PM)

Hello all

Thanks you very much ...[&o]

Very usefull
but every i done is bad [:(]

A+
Patrice



Halsey -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/24/2006 12:34:05 AM)

You'll get better.[;)]




moses -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/25/2006 12:28:36 AM)

1. Move the 3 corps north of Yenen to Yenen.

2.) Send 3 or 4 Corps to Yenen via the long road route. 2 from Homan area and 2 from Chungking.

3.) Send troops near Nanning through that town toward Wuhan. No need to take Nanning. Japan can reinforce and hold if he wants. If you take it he can just take it back later. Just move into Nanning and then past it.

4.) Get other isolated troops in SW moving to Yunan or Kwieyang. (whichever is closer.)

5.) You need 3 or 4 Corps at Wuhan. Everything else (and I mean everything) goes to Changsa. If Japan steps into that city before January you want to be able to shock attack and crush him with 18+ Chinese Corps.

6.) All replacements off. Build forts in Homan, Yenen, and Changsa. Kepp your airplanes someplace safe for a while.

7.) Sit tight in this deployment until the Japanese commit to a single axis of advance. If they fail to do this you win.

This will stop 90% of Japanese players cold. The players who really know what they are doing will launch a single offensive at either Yenen, Homan, or Changsa. In this case:

1.) Yenen can be taken before your rienforcement get there if he concentrates there. Your reinforcements will be in position to prevent a further push toward Langchow.
2.) Likewise Homan and Sian cannot be held if he concentrates there. This is IMO the most dangerous push. You'll need to bring a lot of troops to Chungking so that your troops are ready to cut off any invasion toward Langchow from the direction of Sian.
3.) With 18+ Corps at Changsa your forces will hold for a long time. Many Japanese players will enter the city with insufficient force. Rule of thumb you need 2 Corps to shock attack a Japanese division. If he enters with 5 divisions kick his butt!!! Once he becomes established with a large force you will have a long fight. Do not bombard except maybe occasionally as it reduces your defence strength. Just stand and die. Rotate units to Chungking as they get worn and bring in more forces. To make progress he cannot bombard forever and his units will suffer. It will be a long war.
4.) Ichang is of almost no importance. If he masses here rejoice. He can take it after a hard fight and will have won nothing.
5.) Wuhan: Japan has only 2 divisions in the area at start and it will take weeks to get significant force here. Plus he does have to take Hong Kong. Its hard for China to lose the war here.

Good luck.



Nemo121 -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/25/2006 6:03:59 PM)

quote:

7.) Sit tight in this deployment until the Japanese commit to a single axis of advance. If they fail to do this you win.



Not necessarily. A finely judged approach to the strategic level which concentrates on phasing assaults in order to maximise the defender's dislocation can achieve advances along multiple axes whilst rendering much of your force irrelevant ( as it will be marching to an area only to find that by the time it arrives the enemy's main effort has been switched to another axis).

If you see this being done to you then you need to retreat to the river crossing hex at 44,33 and Kweiyang. You must also secure the northern flank by holding the mountainous terrain north-east of Chungking. At this stage the Japanese attacker will have to pick one route and commit to it and with your interior lines any route he picks, excepting the Kweiyang route can be reinforced long before he can mass decisive forces there.

Yes, it means abandoning most of China but better by far to abandon most of an area but be able to defend what must be defended than to send your strength in defending the non-essential.



jeffs -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/26/2006 1:13:12 AM)

How important is Yenen? (I am a noob whose only game had a mutual ceasefire in China so I have not thought it through). It seems to a noob`s eye that that is not such an important place to fight for....Not suggesting abondment, but certainly not worth much reinforcement either...

Also any thoughts on how the Nik Mod should affect both sides strategy?[&:]



moses -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/26/2006 5:45:51 AM)

Yenen is a good place to hold if you can get troops there before Japan. 8 or 9 Corps in that wooded terrain can be cery difficult to dislodge especially after you build the forts up.

I just don't see any reason to let anything go without a fight. If Japan wants to bring 8 divisions in the initial weeks to Yenen then Japan is going to take it. There is not much you can do. (Although it is always possible that Japan can screw up somehow) But if 8 Japanese divisions are in Yenen fighting then he rest of your front is going to be secure while you drag the Yenen fight out as long as possible.

Once Yenen falls you still need troops to defend the route to Lanchow. So I'd just prefer to hold at Yenen if I can.



Halsey -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/26/2006 11:03:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

Yenen is a good place to hold if you can get troops there before Japan. 8 or 9 Corps in that wooded terrain can be cery difficult to dislodge especially after you build the forts up.

I just don't see any reason to let anything go without a fight. If Japan wants to bring 8 divisions in the initial weeks to Yenen then Japan is going to take it. There is not much you can do. (Although it is always possible that Japan can screw up somehow) But if 8 Japanese divisions are in Yenen fighting then he rest of your front is going to be secure while you drag the Yenen fight out as long as possible.

Once Yenen falls you still need troops to defend the route to Lanchow. So I'd just prefer to hold at Yenen if I can.


Yup.[;)]



alfrake -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/27/2006 12:57:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: moses

1. Move the 3 corps north of Yenen to Yenen.


If you do that, be sure to defend Lanchow decently. I ran tanks around the northern route with infantry behind them and have clogged up Chinese supplies by holding Lanchow for months.



moses -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/27/2006 1:25:49 AM)

I leave that Hope militia division sitting up there. If anything comes that way you split the division up and use it to screen the route. Movement on roads with a unit in the destination hex gets pretty slow. It will take over a month to get to Langchow which is plenty of time to react.

So yes you have to watch this but its not a problem as long as you stay alert.[;)]



Halsey -> RE: noob's chine defence (5/27/2006 1:55:59 AM)

Yup again.

The Hopei Div stays north and moves back toward Lanchow by that route.
Divided up so it can act as a rearguard.
The "W" key helps you to monitor the end around stuff.[;)]



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