RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (Full Version)

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greg_slith -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 6:32:15 PM)

Well, This thread was incorrectly titled. It should be BOMB MAGNET. Then I might be right. Jeesh[:'(]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ecwgcx

How many did Yamato eat before/during Battle of Samar? She did make it back to port after Taffy 3 kicked it a$$.


None. She took a lot of bomb hits, though.





Przemcio231 -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:37:50 PM)

Ok so i have a little riddle for you... you were searching for torpedo "Magnet"  so maybe some one know what was the smallest amount of ordanance responsible for sinking  a BB it dose not matter Shell's , Torpedos or Mines...




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:41:38 PM)

Well, Mutsu blew up on her own... [:D]




mlees -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:44:33 PM)

quote:

was the smallest amount of ordanance responsible for sinking a BB it dose not matter Shell's , Torpedos or Mines...


Numerous battleships (pre and post dreadnought) have been sunk by a single mine in WW1 and (I think) the Russo-Japanese War.

For example: HMS Audacious: http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/hms_audacious.htm




Przemcio231 -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:45:41 PM)

HMS Adacius is the Answer... she sunk after strikin an small 80 kg mine... [:D][:D][:D]  come on Pre Dreadnought were not battleships... they hull was wery week and they rearly could resist a torpedo hit[:D]




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:47:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

HMS Adacius is the Answer... she sunk after strikin an small 80 kg mine... [:D][:D][:D] 


i'd think zero for Mutsu would beat this... but if we are talking due to enemy action, i guess she wouldn't qualify... [:'(]




Przemcio231 -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:50:40 PM)

Yeach Blowing up in Port do not coun't[:D][:D][:D]  any way i wounder why did Mutsu blow up...




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:52:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Yeach Blowing up in Port do not coun't[:D][:D][:D]  any way i wounder why did Mutsu blow up...



Supposed to have been from unstable ammo. Some other ships (italian? russian?) are also supposed to have done the same...




Przemcio231 -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/20/2006 11:54:46 PM)

Any way the thoughest ships used in WWI and WWII were German BC's look at thi baby after Jutland... and still able to make it back...

[image]local://upfiles/18411/E0FAA7B2E22F47488DE9F4490C6E1D0B.jpg[/image]




dtravel -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:04:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Any way the thoughest ships used in WWI and WWII were German BC's look at thi baby after Jutland... and still able to make it back...

[image]local://upfiles/18411/E0FAA7B2E22F47488DE9F4490C6E1D0B.jpg[/image]


Umm, aren't there supposed to be, like, turrets and guns and stuff? [;)]




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:05:55 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Any way the thoughest ships used in WWI and WWII were German BC's look at thi baby after Jutland... and still able to make it back...

[image]local://upfiles/18411/E0FAA7B2E22F47488DE9F4490C6E1D0B.jpg[/image]


Umm, aren't there supposed to be, like, turrets and guns and stuff? [;)]


There is the remnant of turret - but no guns... [:(]




mlees -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:07:37 AM)

quote:

Umm, aren't there supposed to be, like, turrets and guns and stuff?


They sorta fell overboard...




dtravel -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:08:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mlees

quote:

Umm, aren't there supposed to be, like, turrets and guns and stuff?


They sorta fell overboard...


And I thought sailors were supposed to be good at knots and tying stuff down.




Nikademus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:10:28 AM)

The forward guns were removed to lighten the bow after the ship was beached to prevent further sinking. Seydlitz escaped foundering by the hair of her chinny chin chin. Had she encountered some of the routinely foul North Sea weather after the battle, she probably would have had to have been abandoned.




mlees -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:24:29 AM)

I went and refreshed my memory from an online source.

quote:

The Seydlitz was torpedoed either by HMS Petard or HMS Turbulent, and further hit by eight 15 inch shells, six 13.5 inch shells, and eight 12 - inch shells. The worst damage came from five 15 inch shells which caused severe flooding, which nearly caused her to sink.


She must also have suffered from numerous smaller calibre hits. Somebody have the casualty count?




Terminus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:33:42 AM)

Surprisingly light: 98 killed, 55 wounded, according to her commanding officer, Kapitän zur See von Egidy.




mlees -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:35:45 AM)

Thanks! That is surprising.




Terminus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:38:06 AM)

Considering that she ate twenty-three heavy-calibre shells, yeah...




PzB74 -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 12:43:32 AM)

98 killed and 55 wounded...

The Derfflinger suffered 157 killed and 26 wounded.
The Lutzow sank and suffered 'only' 115 killed and 50 wounded.




BrucePowers -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:07:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso


quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Yeach Blowing up in Port do not coun't[:D][:D][:D]  any way i wounder why did Mutsu blow up...



Supposed to have been from unstable ammo. Some other ships (italian? russian?) are also supposed to have done the same...



So did the USS Maine.[:D]




Terminus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:16:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

So did the USS Maine.[:D]



I'd heard it was spontaneously combusting coal dust...




BrucePowers -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:32:35 AM)

I stand corrected, T. You are correct. Thanks.




Terminus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:37:59 AM)

It's amazing, really. In a tightly confined space, even FLOUR can self-ignite...




BrucePowers -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:45:39 AM)

I want to try the flour thing (we live on a large cul-de-sac). My wife won't let me. She is a very intelligent lady with a lot of common sense.[:D][:D]




Terminus -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 1:50:29 AM)

Put as much flour as you can in your mouth and wait for it to go off...[:'(]




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 2:00:50 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: BrucePowers

So did the USS Maine.[:D]



I'd heard it was spontaneously combusting coal dust...



Despite some official pronouncements by people like Rickover, the cause of the Maine's demise is still not really known.

Photos of the hull showed the armor, etc. was bent dramatically INWARD (photos which were still floating around on the web at one time). Rickover came up with a theory that water rushing into the hull caused this... put how armor is going to bend hull plates in like this is a nice trick. i do not believe this theory, and lots of other folks (including naval engineers) do not either.

However, no one has come up with a cogent theory on how anyone could have gotten planted a mine to sink the ship. So the reason of the explosion and sinking is unproven still.




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 2:04:49 AM)

You have to aerosolize the flower to get it to be explosive.

There was a game show i used to like as a kid ("Beat the Clock") that went off the air after some prop guy (iirc) came up with a prop bomb that just blew a bunch of flower into the air to simulate an explosion. Unfortunately for everyone in the studio, the stuff exploded immediately afterwards (it does need a spark, though).

EDIT:
It doesn't have to be that tightly confined - grain elevators, flower mills, etc. explode every once in a while. i don't think the TV studio was airtight or anything, either. i think the stuff is more like a fuel-air explosive, with the flower acting as the fuel.




Monter_Trismegistos -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 2:09:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Photos of the hull showed the armor, etc. was bent dramatically INWARD (photos which were still floating around on the web at one time). Rickover came up with a theory that water rushing into the hull caused this... put how armor is going to bend hull plates in like this is a nice trick. i do not believe this theory, and lots of other folks (including naval engineers) do not either.


It was not water itself, but shock wave reflected from bottom made this.

Sinking of French predrednaught Liberté, where it was quite known how it happened, showed the same syndrom: hull was bent inward. So in general that theory is quite plausible.




rtrapasso -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 2:50:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso
Photos of the hull showed the armor, etc. was bent dramatically INWARD (photos which were still floating around on the web at one time). Rickover came up with a theory that water rushing into the hull caused this... put how armor is going to bend hull plates in like this is a nice trick. i do not believe this theory, and lots of other folks (including naval engineers) do not either.


It was not water itself, but shock wave reflected from bottom made this.

Sinking of French predrednaught Liberté, where it was quite known how it happened, showed the same syndrom: hull was bent inward. So in general that theory is quite plausible.


i am trying to find the photos - i remember reading the report some time ago (several years) so i guess i got the details of the theory incorrect.

HOwever, here are some problems with the coal explosion theory:

"The Maine never had an instance of spontaneous combustion on board, as did so many other ships of that time, and out of all the ships that had experienced spontaneous combustion, none was reported to have sustained serious damage. The type of coal carried by the Maine was New River coal, which is classified as low volatile bituminous coal and was not generally known to spontaneously combust. Bunker A16 was not situated by a boiler or any other external heat source, and normally spontaneous combustion does not occur unless there is a heat source to speed up the process. When Bunker A16 was inspected the morning of the disaster, the temperature was only 59 degrees Fahrenheit, and the Maines' oversensitive temperature sensor system did not indicate any dangerous rise in temperature. The discipline on the Maine was excellent, and regular inspections of coal bunkers for hazards, as well as the implementation of precautions for preventing bunker fires, were diligently carried out under the supervision of the cautious executive officer of the Maine, Richard Wainwright. These idiosyncrasies related to the coal bunker fire theory are what give rise to the constant debate of this argument’s legitimacy."




BrucePowers -> RE: Torpedo Magnet "Record"? (6/21/2006 2:53:56 AM)

Some of the photos were in National Geographic as I recall. I am looking.




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