RE: Weather (Full Version)

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Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (12/22/2006 3:37:02 AM)

In this weather, Patrice leaves his 40' sail boat tied up in the harbor and takes the family to their skiing chalet in the Alps.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/BD4AFA2F95534822827EB216C8F077AF.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (12/22/2006 3:39:14 AM)

7th and last in series.

Ah, no, I've decided not to declare war on Russia this turn.

I find the weather zone boundaries really help here.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/0486B822691C4518B5CE1052F7803E5A.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Weather (12/22/2006 8:59:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
In this weather, Patrice leaves his 40' sail boat tied up in the harbor and takes the family to their skiing chalet in the Alps.

Those weather effects & weather zone boundaries are very good looking to me.
I can't wait to have this version !!!! [:D]



composer99 -> RE: Weather (12/22/2006 4:57:58 PM)

The weather overlays are impressive.



rtamesis -> RE: Weather (12/24/2006 11:36:50 AM)

Will the effects of typhoons and hurricanes be simulated as well? From http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm : "On October 9, 1945, a typhoon packing 140 mph winds struck the the American staging area on Okinawa that would have been expanded to capacity by that time if the war had not ended in September, and was still crammed with aircraft and assault shipping- much of which was destroyed. US analysts at the scene matter-of-factly reported that the storm would have caused up to a 45-day delay in the invasion of Kyushu" which was planned originally for December 1 had the Pacific war not ended.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (12/24/2006 7:18:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rtamesis

Will the effects of typhoons and hurricanes be simulated as well? From http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/giangrec.htm : "On October 9, 1945, a typhoon packing 140 mph winds struck the the American staging area on Okinawa that would have been expanded to capacity by that time if the war had not ended in September, and was still crammed with aircraft and assault shipping- much of which was destroyed. US analysts at the scene matter-of-factly reported that the storm would have caused up to a 45-day delay in the invasion of Kyushu" which was planned originally for December 1 had the Pacific war not ended.

The variability of weather is simulated by having it potentially change every two impulses. It is set at the start of a turn (by rolling a die) and reset (rerolled)after each player has moved once. What weather you get depends on the time of year (six 2 month turns per year) and the latitude on the world map (6 weather zones: Artic, North Temperate, Mediterranean, South Temperate, North Monsoon, and South Monsoon. The weather from the previous turn/impulse influences the new weather roll, so there is some smoothness built into the change in weather. That's not to say it might not be a drastic change, there's just a reduced probability of a drastic change.

To answer your specific question, Storm weather at sea simulates typhoons and will cause delays in operations. The chance of that occurring depends on Japan's latitude and the time of year.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 10:20:07 AM)

Here are the first 4 pages of the tutorial on the weather. Let me know what you think of them.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/51DA8C4D439A4C51BCA38A71D9C0FB9E.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 10:22:01 AM)

These pages show screen shots of weather on the detailed and global maps.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/965828D9B6C94222BC4A79C71374B3B9.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 10:24:43 AM)

The last 3 (or 4) pages of the weather tutorial will cover probabilites. I guess I'll show some numbers, but I do not want to do a full analysis of the weather probaility table.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/6161D30082F74D50B29D3ACD5D331BDF.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 10:28:49 AM)

4th and last in series. I still plan on asking Rob about different weather overlays for the all sea hexes. Something that shows rough seas for rain and snow and violent seas for storm and blizzard. That will wait until after he does the last 5 bitmaps segments of the world map's coastal and river/lake hexes.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/0D15EDBB38154EEC8D51F65A70EF084F.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 10:57:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here are the first 4 pages of the tutorial on the weather. Let me know what you think of them.

This page says that the Weather zone boundaries are always displayed.
Would it be possible to have a toggle to make it disappear / appear when the player wants it ?
I think it would be a good thing, because, even if the Weather zones boundaries are very important, the player may also wat to see the map with the least clutter possible. Also, if the weather is something else than fine, he could choose to look at the map with weather effects activated, and weather zones boundaries un-activated, which would suffice to convey to him the important information.



Froonp -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 11:01:57 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

4th and last in series. I still plan on asking Rob about different weather overlays for the all sea hexes. Something that shows rough seas for rain and snow and violent seas for storm and blizzard. That will wait until after he does the last 5 bitmaps segments of the world map's coastal and river/lake hexes.

In this one, I would change the "1" to a "one".

Also, do you plan to talk about how swamps change to become forests under snow & blizzard ?

Also, I once proposed that the swamp graphic actually changed on the map when the snow or blizzard was happening, to a forest graphic, and because of the way the coastlines are rendered on the map, this seems quite impossible. Each coastline hex is a pregenerated bitmap, stored in the games directories, and the map uses those graphics when it is built.
One solution would be to have 2 graphics for each swamp coastline hex. One with the swamp graphic, and another with the forest grahic. That way, the game could "overlay" the "fine weather" swamps coastline hexes to snow or blizzzard swamp coastline hexes when there is snow or blizzard.



Peter Stauffenberg -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 4:29:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Also, do you plan to talk about how swamps change to become forests under snow & blizzard ?

Also, I once proposed that the swamp graphic actually changed on the map when the snow or blizzard was happening, to a forest graphic, and because of the way the coastlines are rendered on the map, this seems quite impossible. Each coastline hex is a pregenerated bitmap, stored in the games directories, and the map uses those graphics when it is built.
One solution would be to have 2 graphics for each swamp coastline hex. One with the swamp graphic, and another with the forest grahic. That way, the game could "overlay" the "fine weather" swamps coastline hexes to snow or blizzzard swamp coastline hexes when there is snow or blizzard.


I think your suggestion is a good idea if it can be done without too much problems.

I don't remember the WIF rules for lakes being frozen during snow or blizzard, but in many games I know it's possible to
cross lake hexsides when they become frozen. If this is part of WIF then maybe frozen lakes should be shown with an icy
blue color instead of the regular blue color so we remember we can move across the lake. I think particularly about lakes
like Ladoga, Onega, Peipus etc. where the frozen lakes were vital to support the Russians.



lomyrin -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 6:26:36 PM)


Also, do you plan to talk about how swamps change to become forests under snow & blizzard ?

Also, I once proposed that the swamp graphic actually changed on the map when the snow or blizzard was happening, to a forest graphic, and because of the way the coastlines are rendered on the map, this seems quite impossible. Each coastline hex is a pregenerated bitmap, stored in the games directories, and the map uses those graphics when it is built.
One solution would be to have 2 graphics for each swamp coastline hex. One with the swamp graphic, and another with the forest grahic. That way, the game could "overlay" the "fine weather" swamps coastline hexes to snow or blizzzard swamp coastline hexes when there is snow or blizzard.
[/quote]



I think that changing the swamp to forest in snow and blizzard could cause confusion among players that are not thoroughly familiar with the swamp terrain locations. Planning future moves thinking a hes is a forest hex when it really is a swamp hex could mess a player up a bit. Better just to know the rule that the swamp is treated as forest in snow and blizzard.

Lars



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 7:34:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
quote:


Also, do you plan to talk about how swamps change to become forests under snow & blizzard ?

Also, I once proposed that the swamp graphic actually changed on the map when the snow or blizzard was happening, to a forest graphic, and because of the way the coastlines are rendered on the map, this seems quite impossible. Each coastline hex is a pregenerated bitmap, stored in the games directories, and the map uses those graphics when it is built.
One solution would be to have 2 graphics for each swamp coastline hex. One with the swamp graphic, and another with the forest grahic. That way, the game could "overlay" the "fine weather" swamps coastline hexes to snow or blizzzard swamp coastline hexes when there is snow or blizzard.




I think that changing the swamp to forest in snow and blizzard could cause confusion among players that are not thoroughly familiar with the swamp terrain locations. Planning future moves thinking a hes is a forest hex when it really is a swamp hex could mess a player up a bit. Better just to know the rule that the swamp is treated as forest in snow and blizzard.

Lars

I agree with Lars for the reasons he gave.

And increasing the number of coastal bitmaps is definitely undesireable.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 7:43:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
Here are the first 4 pages of the tutorial on the weather. Let me know what you think of them.

This page says that the Weather zone boundaries are always displayed.
Would it be possible to have a toggle to make it disappear / appear when the player wants it ?
I think it would be a good thing, because, even if the Weather zones boundaries are very important, the player may also wat to see the map with the least clutter possible. Also, if the weather is something else than fine, he could choose to look at the map with weather effects activated, and weather zones boundaries un-activated, which would suffice to convey to him the important information.

This feature would be relatively easy to add. I'll consider it again when I review all the toggle switches and other tools available to the player to customize the player interface.

One of the reasons I like making it permanent is because large sections of the map are in the same weather zone (e.g., from the British Isles to Germany). When playing the game a high zoom levels (5-8) and the weather zone boundaries toggled off, a player may think that he is looking at all one weather zone. That will be true for a lot of the battlefields and not true for others. With the weather zone boundaries always on, players will know that if no weather boundaries are shown, none exist.

Contrast this with rivers (cannot be toggled on and off) and rail lines (can be toggled). Weather zone boundaries are more like the former. When rail lines are toggled off, it is really obvious to the player, since almost no land mass on the map is completely devoid of rail lines.

But this is a tentative decision that I'll review later.



Ballista -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 9:16:14 PM)

FWIW, I still think the solid white line is a bit to "heavy" on the eye (Formosa is a good example of this) and takes away from the aesthetics of a truly beautiful map . Toggling the weatherzones off/on would be a good thing......



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/2/2007 9:52:52 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ballista

FWIW, I still think the solid white line is a bit to "heavy" on the eye (Formosa is a good example of this) and takes away from the aesthetics of a truly beautiful map . Toggling the weatherzones off/on would be a good thing......

I already have the white lines thinner (3 pixels versus 7) than the dark blue (sea area boundary) and maroon (country border) as you can see in pages 3 and 4 of the tutorial. I am reluctant to reduce them to 1, since that will deemphasize their importance quite a bit (they'll be the same width as the black hexagon grid lines).



HenrytheSecond -> RE: Weather (1/3/2007 2:37:17 AM)

Hi guys,
 
First time I've looked at any map screenshots in quite a while and I've got to say I'm very, very impressed.
 
This game is truly going to be a masterpiece and my only hope is that Steve gets the rewards he is due
for taking MWiF from possibility to probability.
 
Cheers.
 
PS: I'm not a just a lurker, I've recently volunteered my services on the write-ups to Capitan.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Weather (1/3/2007 2:41:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HenrytheSecond


PS: I'm not a just a lurker, I've recently volunteered my services on the write-ups to Capitan.


Much appreciated and we will get you started as quickly as possible! Thanks for stepping up!



Froonp -> RE: Weather (1/3/2007 2:49:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: lomyrin
quote:


Also, do you plan to talk about how swamps change to become forests under snow & blizzard ?

Also, I once proposed that the swamp graphic actually changed on the map when the snow or blizzard was happening, to a forest graphic, and because of the way the coastlines are rendered on the map, this seems quite impossible. Each coastline hex is a pregenerated bitmap, stored in the games directories, and the map uses those graphics when it is built.
One solution would be to have 2 graphics for each swamp coastline hex. One with the swamp graphic, and another with the forest grahic. That way, the game could "overlay" the "fine weather" swamps coastline hexes to snow or blizzzard swamp coastline hexes when there is snow or blizzard.




I think that changing the swamp to forest in snow and blizzard could cause confusion among players that are not thoroughly familiar with the swamp terrain locations. Planning future moves thinking a hes is a forest hex when it really is a swamp hex could mess a player up a bit. Better just to know the rule that the swamp is treated as forest in snow and blizzard.

Lars

I agree with Lars for the reasons he gave.

And increasing the number of coastal bitmaps is definitely undesireable.

Yes, I agree with Lars point too.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (1/3/2007 3:24:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HenrytheSecond

Hi guys,
 
First time I've looked at any map screenshots in quite a while and I've got to say I'm very, very impressed.
 
This game is truly going to be a masterpiece and my only hope is that Steve gets the rewards he is due
for taking MWiF from possibility to probability.
 
Cheers.
 
PS: I'm not a just a lurker, I've recently volunteered my services on the write-ups to Capitan.

Welcome, and thanks.

There is much to read, if you are so inclined. I always suggest the Directory and When threads as a good place to get an overview of MWIF.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (8/30/2007 11:25:11 PM)

Here is the weather - it includes some screen shots of the tutorials.



Neilster -> RE: Weather (8/31/2007 2:20:03 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the weather - it includes some screen shots of the tutorials.

It must be very foggy. I can't see a thing. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (8/31/2007 3:08:42 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Neilster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here is the weather - it includes some screen shots of the tutorials.

It must be very foggy. I can't see a thing. [:D]

Cheers, Neilster


My shorthand meant: Here is the thread on the weather, it contains screenshots of tutorial #7 - weather.

By the way, there are only 4 of the 7 pages done so far for this tutorial.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (11/8/2007 7:19:25 PM)

Rob finished a couple of variations for weather at sea. The reasoning here is that while there are 5 types of weather on land there are effectively only 3 types of weather at sea: Fine, Rough Seas (Rain & Snow) and Typhoons (Storm and Blizzard). To communicate that fact clearly the program shows 3 variations of all sea hexes. On land, the 4 inclement weather states are shown as overlays.

Here the Norwegian Sea has Rough Seas (Rain) while the North Sea has fine weather.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/E73582A40E43418AA1627E86C85855BA.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (11/8/2007 7:21:10 PM)

Here all 3 variations of All Sea hex depictions are shown: Clear/Fine, Rough Seas and Typhoon.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/D715763F16BA44B594A77F9757FCB5C9.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (11/8/2007 7:22:30 PM)

Typhoons are common around Hong Kong and Formosa.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/3C3DB76912DC452FB84B994C3773ED37.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (11/8/2007 7:24:56 PM)

Here is a zoomed out view of the previous screen shot.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/3C2892A7D7C0498EB849ACA70691B397.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Weather (11/8/2007 7:31:28 PM)

While the Norwegian Sea and the Arctic have Rough Seas, the Baltic has fine weather. Meanwhile Scandinavia in general has rain. Note that lakes are shown like other 'land' terrain.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/68C7F0EB5321403083D4FB2470479A91.jpg[/image]



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