about repairing (Full Version)

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djr007 -> about repairing (7/30/2006 1:17:15 AM)

Will an activated repair base automatically work on damaged ships in harbor (example, ships damaged on 12/7) or must one desigate a ship to be repaired? If the latter, how is that done? Right now I just have those useless relics in Pearl Harbor but once those flattops get banged up the question takes on new importance



Terminus -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 2:00:34 AM)

You don't designate the ships to be repaired, the base does that for you. It can be advantageous to send high-priority cases to repair yards by themselves, so they absorb all the points. It's a roll of the dice, basically, and sometimes the dice come up craps many, many times in a row.



djr007 -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 2:13:27 AM)

many thanks...so if there is only one damaged ship in a given harbour, will it automatically be selected for repair? If so,how does one know if a ship is being repaired and can multiple ships be repaired up to the base's capability?


"Night...cemetary...Halloween. This should end well."
Giles



Terminus -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 2:17:16 AM)

The process is complex, but yes, multiple ships can be repaired in one harbour. Conversely, a single ship might sit in the yards for weeks, failing dice roll after dice roll. The only way to see if a ship is being repaired is (surprise, surprise) the damage points going down.



dtravel -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 2:23:53 AM)

Its easier to understand if you remember that repairs are not by "by base" but "by ship".  That is, every ship makes an individual die roll for repairs.  Other than the size of the port modifying that roll, the base has nothing to do with repairs.

Or to put it another way, the port doesn't repair the ship.  The ship's crew repairs the ship, sometimes they use the port's tools.



(And apropo of nothing, I wonder what Cpt. Jack Sparrow's WiTP stats would be?  [:D] )



Terminus -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 2:58:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

(And apropos of nothing, I wonder what Cpt. Jack Sparrow's WiTP stats would be?  [:D] )


Quite low, I should think, considering his permanent inebriation...



dtravel -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 4:18:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: dtravel

(And apropos of nothing, I wonder what Cpt. Jack Sparrow's WiTP stats would be?  [:D] )


Quite low, I should think, considering his permanent inebriation...


I'm not so sure. He does seem to have a knack for getting out of some pretty sticky situations. Plus I suspect that he operates better drunk than sober.



djr007 -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 3:17:03 PM)

So, the repair process is similar to UV, where lightly damaged ships can be fixed at New Calendonia, while badly damaged ships get sent back to "Pearl Harbor". Since I am still in December of 1941, it might be overly-optimistic to expect USS California to be back in action.

On the good side, the garrison at Wake Island have repelled their invasion while the Lexington task force killed two CL's and a DD. Sadly, the Philippines and Singapore are on the verge of falling and one cannot "sneak" surface ships past enemy air bases, no?

"Death...carnage...its a Buffy party."



Terminus -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 4:04:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: djr007

one cannot "sneak" surface ships past enemy air bases, no?



Depends on the weather, of course, but generally no...



dtravel -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 10:35:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: djr007

So, the repair process is similar to UV, where lightly damaged ships can be fixed at New Calendonia, while badly damaged ships get sent back to "Pearl Harbor". Since I am still in December of 1941, it might be overly-optimistic to expect USS California to be back in action.

On the good side, the garrison at Wake Island have repelled their invasion while the Lexington task force killed two CL's and a DD. Sadly, the Philippines and Singapore are on the verge of falling and one cannot "sneak" surface ships past enemy air bases, no?

"Death...carnage...its a Buffy party."


WiTP is basically just UV written large. As for the California, if it is up in the 90s for SYS damage now it might be overly optimistic to expect it back in action in December of 1942.



Terminus -> RE: about repairing (7/30/2006 11:00:08 PM)

"Overly optimistic"... That's a nice understatement there...



djr007 -> RE: about repairing (8/1/2006 8:46:55 PM)

It has been observed that I have an...English sense of humour.

Repairs have begun on the Pearl Harbor ships...just in time it seems.

The computer appears to be running the Japanese in a most...unusual manner.  On the one hand cautiously keeping the bulk of their battleships and strike carriers away from South-west Asia, while on the other boldly sailing unescorted transports within reach of ABDA's warships.  As a result, they've lost a lot of transports and AK's.  Although they have managed to sink PoW and drive away Repulse.

Is an hour a turn the average?

"The only verdict is vendetta."
V




Herbefol -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 12:01:38 AM)

I too was curious about the way repair works. Especially as in addition of many battleships I had two carriers damaged in Pearl Harbour(from later operations around Kwajalein). Today I've just decided to make them sail to San Fransisco and Los Angeles as it seems there's big repair facilities in those harbors. It takes some time to let those ships travel from Pearl Harbor to the west coast, but now it seems they repair quite fastly. :)



ckk -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 12:39:54 AM)

Good idea[8D]Especially if there are few other sips in SFO and Lax and keeps you out of the line of fire until the zero bonus goes away. After they get some decent speed it would probably be smart to send the Old BB's to the West Coast repair yards[;)]



SireChaos -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 11:04:22 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Herbefol

I too was curious about the way repair works. Especially as in addition of many battleships I had two carriers damaged in Pearl Harbour(from later operations around Kwajalein). Today I've just decided to make them sail to San Fransisco and Los Angeles as it seems there's big repair facilities in those harbors. It takes some time to let those ships travel from Pearl Harbor to the west coast, but now it seems they repair quite fastly. :)



I did it the other way around... I sent all the damaged battleships to San Francisco and use Pearl Harbour exclusively to keep those ships in fighting shape that I intend to use... the carriers plus their escorts.

I figure that those old battleships are too slow to be much good (they slow down any air or surface combat task force they are in by 10 knots, top speed), and am not going to use them for the "hit and run" attacks of the first months. Plus, if I keep them in SF, they are right where they can get their upgrades.


By the way, has anyone figured out by how much port size impacts repair times? And how about shipyards?



dtravel -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 1:02:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos
By the way, has anyone figured out by how much port size impacts repair times? And how about shipyards?


None of us know fecal matter. Here's what we know (as opposed to what we think we know).

There are two types of ship repair. The first I call “Inherent Repair”. This is the ship repair that can occur at any port (it can also in theory occur at sea but is so rare that it isn’t a factor). The second I call “Shipyard Repair”. This is the repair that occurs only at ports with Repair Shipyards and uses Repair Points generated by those facilities.

The two types of repair are independent of each other. No relation or dependency has been observed in testing.

Inherent ship repair does not consume supplies. It appears that Shipyard Repair does not either but this has not been definitively confirmed.

Either type of repair can repair two points in one day, one point each during the Night and Day phases. Theoretically therefore it is possible for a ship to repair four points of damage in one day. But don’t expect it to happen during your lifetime.

Shipyard Repair uses Repair Points equal to the ship’s Durability +20. I.E., a DUR 5 DD will use 25 Repair Points, a DUR 120 CV will use 140. This is confirmed from actual play, the manual is incorrect on this point.

It is not known what, if any, factors affect the success of Shipyard Repair. Based on what the manual hints at and observation I don’t think anything besides the DUR of the ship does. Not ARs, Naval HQs, nothing. There is one caveat, the number of ships. While there is no evidence that the number of ships in port affects any individual ship’s chances of Shipyard Repair, if sufficient other ships have successfully made their checks prior to a given ship there may not be enough Repair Points to perform the repairs on the given ship. Based on general observation of the program, I assume that the checks are done in the order the ships are listed in the scenario’s database.

As best as has been determined to date, the factors that affect Inherent Repair in order are:
1) The ship’s Durability (the higher it is, the slower repairs are)
2) Random chance. (I.E. the program’s random number generator.)
3) The size of the port (bigger is better)
4) The presence of repair support ships (AR, AD, AS, AGP) and/or Naval HQs.
5) The manual states that the experience of the ship’s crew affects repair, but this writer distrusts the manual.

Please note, observation indicates #2 above has a larger effect than all the lower factors combined. Random chance appears to play such a large role that it has so far proven impossible to measure the effects of any factor with any certainty.



Sardaukar -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 6:04:09 PM)

Gary Grigsby has always been big into having huge random effects in his formulas. That was evident even in original Steel Panthers where one could have had light tank hit several times with 88 Flak 18 gun and have no damage done due to huge randomness in outcomes...[X(]



SireChaos -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 6:10:27 PM)

Thanks a lot.

I have also observed, IIRC with Japan only, that the Local Shipyard Repair Points (LSRP) sometimes act oddly. They accumulate, as stated in the manual, to 4x Repair Shipyard size, if no ships with Sys damage are in port.

However, if you have ships in port with Sys damage whose combined Durability is about equal to (or less than) Repair Shipyard Size, then LSRP will acumulate to between 4x and 5x Repair Shipyard size.
I have observed with when placing a Japanese BB (IIRC, the Kongo, Durability 90) into a size 100 shipyard (Maizuru), or two Japanese CAs (IIRC Suzuya and Chokai, Durability 55 and 50) into a size 105(?) shipyard, IIRC Okayama. In both cases, the ports regularly showed a LSRP count of 440 to 470.

BTW according to the manual "inherent repair" (I prefer to call it "crew repair") at sea is so rare because it only happens with sys damage of >50 - I have seen that happened several times with severly damaged ships, mostly AK/AP/TK, that arrived in port with maybe 5 points less Sys damage than when I sent them home.



saj42 -> RE: about repairing (8/28/2006 6:40:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SireChaos

However, if you have ships in port with Sys damage whose combined Durability is about equal to (or less than) Repair Shipyard Size, then LSRP will acumulate to between 4x and 5x Repair Shipyard size.


It been noted before. Say a port has 100 repair yards. 4x100=400. If you have a damaged DD repair using the port then 25 pts are used leaving 375. When the program checks pts during the turn it sees that 375 is less than 4x repair yards so adds another days quota for a new total of 475. Just another quirk of the game.



mlees -> RE: about repairing (8/31/2006 9:32:07 PM)

quote:

Is an hour a turn the average?


For solo play versus the Jap AI?

Early on, yes. Your busy organising supply convoys to all your far flung outposts, rushing reinforcements (or organising retreats), massaging your sub patrols, ordering expansions to forts & airfields, and so on.

As some of these things take time, you'll have less that you have to do each and every turn. (But take notes. Otherwise you might end up saying "What the heck is this convoy doing here near Pago Pago? Where was I going to send these 10000 supplies?")

The time needed to do all you need to do should taper off to 30 minutes to 45 minutes each turn. It will spike when you decide to organise a large invasion somewhere. Like the liberation of Hokkaido.



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