Ideas for Land Unit writeups (Full Version)

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Greyshaft -> Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/20/2006 10:58:37 PM)

Land Unit writeups

We now have three people doing Land Unit writeups. Thank you to Hazpak and Bill McAlpine who have joined capitan at the keyboard.

Capitan (German Army then Spain)
Hazpak (Japanese then Nederlands)
Bill (USA)

There have been a number of good suggestions about writing up the land units. I wanted to collect them in one place for the benefit of this trio and for anyone else who decides they want a piece of the action. Capitan, perhaps you could post one or two of your completed works as responses?

Thanks to all who are contributing here.




jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/20/2006 11:51:37 PM)

Welcome Hazpak and Bill! I sure am glad to have more people on board because it is a daunting task we have ahead of us. I have been trying to find a good concept for the last few days and Steve, Patrice and Greyshaft have given me great feedback.

Earlier today I sent the 22 corps I have done to Steve so I will let him post the ones he likes best as examples and then we can discuss what works and what does not.

What I did for starters was scouring the web for good websites on Germany in WW2. You need a few good sites that have at least part of the information you need. Right now I am using three sites that compliment each other but every now and then you need to dig deep to find anything. In some cases I have been forced to make educated guesses but I have faith that there are enough people in this forum that knows a lot so they can tell me if I err beyond what is reasonable.

- Jesper



Greyshaft -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 1:46:48 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
You need a few good sites that have at least part of the information you need. Right now I am using three sites that compliment each other but every now and then you need to dig deep to find anything.


You probably all already know this, but just for the record...
It is not acceptable to copy information word-for-word from what you find on the web or in a book. That is plagarism and is illegal. Please ensure that you source at least 2-3 sites for your information and then rewrite what you have found in your own words. If in doubt, then please ask. I'm happy to help resolve any questions in this area.

Thanks



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 3:10:28 AM)

Tomorrow I will post all the links I have found so far that can be useful .



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 3:32:28 AM)

For what is worth, here are the WWII links I gathered from my Internet browsing history, up to now. Mainly Aviation links because it's what I love the most.
http://perso.orange.fr/froon/Links/WWII.htm



hazpak -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 3:56:00 AM)

I dug out the japanese land units from the 5th Edition that i have been given [:D]. I believe mechs in flames is the only expansion that was with it. are there any other japanese land units i need to known about? And if so where can i find a image of them.

How do we propose going about ficticious formations such, for example the japanese mechanised/motorised infantry korps?

Personally i liked the 'short essay' style write Jesper did for his first submitted units. Citiations and Medals are a concern as i do not believe they were ever issued at army/korps level rather at divisional and lower. And since the formations in most Korps changed over time.. well you get the idea.





Greyshaft -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:24:31 AM)

Capitan has the official list of land units that was supplied by Steve. That is the list we need to work from.
Capitan, could you forward that list to myself, Hazpak and Bill?

Thanks



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:52:40 AM)

Here are two examples taken from what Capitan has done so far with the Germans.

I expect that each country will have to be somewhat different since the formation, citations, and a whole lot of other stuff will differ from country to country. Whenever possible, maintaining a consistent style would be nice.

Here is the text as Capitan prepared it for use by the program.
================
[2486] [X Infantry Korps]
.T The X Infantry Korps was raised 1935 in Hamburg.
.P As the war commenced the corps drove south from the Northern flank against Poland. The most important task laid upon the formation was to encircle and assault Poznan and the main part of the Polish forces.
.P When the phony war was over in early 1940 the X Infantry Korps was part of the forces advancing through the Netherlands and then later helping in the expulsion of the British at Dunkirk.
.P In 1941 it was shifted to the Easter Front and the 16th Army. It was attached to this army for more than 3 years. They saw action around Lake Ilmen where they dug in for a good two years.
.P The general retreat westward forced the 16th Army and with it the X Infantry Korps into a defensive position near Riga. Shortly after they were retreated once more into what was to be known as the Kurland pocket where it stayed until the end of the war. Armygroup Kurland surrendered in May 1945.
.H
.B Fronts: Poland, France, Russia and Kurland
.B Decorations: 70 Knights Crosses and numerous Iron Crosses
================

[image]local://upfiles/16701/5ACB04D6AC164FE7A7075F369734D012.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:54:35 AM)

And a second example (last in series).
==============
[2492] [XVII Infantry Korps]
.T The XVII Infantry Korps was raised 1938 in Austria, after the German Anschluss of Austria. It consisted of two thirds Austrians soldiers in 1939 but by 1940 the Austrian presence was nearly gone.
.P In 1939 and 1940 the corps participated both in the Polish and French campaign before being sent to the Eastern Front in 1941.
.P From the start of Operation Barbarossa til a year later the corps was attached to the 6th Army. First objective was Kiev and then, during Operation Blau, Stalingrad. In the latter operation the XVII Infantry Korps held the northern flank on the Don section. When the rest of the 6th Army was trapped and destroyed this corps retreated to Mius, where it stayed until August of 1943.
.P From there and on it was retreating continuously, first over the River Bug, then to the Carpathians and then finally to Breslau after passing Hungary.
.P When Breslau fell, which was after the fall of Berlin, the corps surrendered together with the rest of the units in the destroyed city.
.H
.B Fronts: Poland, France, Russia, Rumania and Hungary
.B Decorations: 22 Knight Crosses and numerous Iron Crosses
==============

[image]local://upfiles/16701/D98F2742E2E2425C9F953E3603FE0762.jpg[/image]



Zorachus99 -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 7:20:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Here are two examples taken from what Capitan has done so far with the Germans.

I expect that each country will have to be somewhat different since the formation, citations, and a whole lot of other stuff will differ from country to country. Whenever possible, maintaining a consistent style would be nice.

Here is the text as Capitan prepared it for use by the program.
================
[2486] [X Infantry Korps]
.T The X Infantry Korps was raised 1935 in Hamburg.
.P As the war commenced the corps drove south from the Northern flank against Poland. The most important task laid upon the formation was to encircle and assault Poznan and the main part of the Polish forces.
.P When the phony war was over in early 1940 the X Infantry Korps was part of the forces advancing through the Netherlands and then later helping in the expulsion of the British at Dunkirk.
.P In 1941 it was shifted to the Easter Front and the 16th Army. It was attached to this army for more than 3 years. They saw action around Lake Ilmen where they dug in for a good two years.
.P The general retreat westward forced the 16th Army and with it the X Infantry Korps into a defensive position near Riga. Shortly after they were retreated once more into what was to be known as the Kurland pocket where it stayed until the end of the war. Armygroup Kurland surrendered in May 1945.
.H
.B Fronts: Poland, France, Russia and Kurland
.B Decorations: 70 Knights Crosses and numerous Iron Crosses
================

[image]local://upfiles/16701/5ACB04D6AC164FE7A7075F369734D012.jpg[/image]


This game is going to be the grognards paradise! [:)]

just a typo:

.P In 1941 it was shifted to the Easter Front and the 16th Army.

Easter should be Eastern. Easy to miss in the spellcheck.




jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 8:51:00 AM)

Typo changed. Thank you!

How about the rest, what is missing? What details are unnecessary? Now is a good time to be honest, because now I have the possibility to rather easily change what has been written. In a week or two the same burden might be too hefty.

- Jesper



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 11:51:48 AM)

Instead of calling that "Fronts", why not using "Campaigns" ?
I think it is more suited to what it is intended for, that is, showing where the unit fought.



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 11:54:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Instead of calling that "Fronts", why not using "Campaigns" ?
I think it is more suited to what it is intended for, that is, showing where the unit fought.

By the way, those writups are great, I love both of them !!!! [:D]
I also love that the campaigns the unit took part in are listed in the end.



Greyshaft -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 12:12:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Instead of calling that "Fronts", why not using "Campaigns" ?
I think it is more suited to what it is intended for, that is, showing where the unit fought.

By the way, those writups are great, I love both of them !!!! [:D]
I also love that the campaigns the unit took part in are listed in the end.


i wonder if its possible to put the years eg
Jan 1940 - Raised in Dusseldorf
1940 - France
1941-42 - Africa
1943 - South Russia
Unit finally destroyed September 1944 in Poland



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 12:20:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Instead of calling that "Fronts", why not using "Campaigns" ?
I think it is more suited to what it is intended for, that is, showing where the unit fought.

By the way, those writups are great, I love both of them !!!! [:D]
I also love that the campaigns the unit took part in are listed in the end.


i wonder if its possible to put the years eg
Jan 1940 - Raised in Dusseldorf
1940 - France
1941-42 - Africa
1943 - South Russia
Unit finally destroyed September 1944 in Poland



Like this:

Campaigns: Poland (39), France (40), Northern Russia (41-44) and Kurland (44-45)

or it this better:?

Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45)



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 12:28:54 PM)

quote:

quote:

i wonder if its possible to put the years eg
Jan 1940 - Raised in Dusseldorf
1940 - France
1941-42 - Africa
1943 - South Russia
Unit finally destroyed September 1944 in Poland


Like this:

Campaigns: Poland (39), France (40), Northern Russia (41-44) and Kurland (44-45)

or it this better:?

Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45)

My favorite is the latest one.
Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45).
For Barbarossa, this is explained in the writup if it is the north or south army groups, so mentionning northern russia is not necessary.



grab -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 12:36:07 PM)

Having been a lurker here for sometime I thought I would finally through caution to the wind and dive in. I too like the idea of dates linked to campaigns. Its a nice detail touch.



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 2:45:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

And a second example (last in series).
==============
[2492] [XVII Infantry Korps]
.T The XVII Infantry Korps was raised 1938 in Austria, after the German Anschluss of Austria. It consisted of two thirds Austrians soldiers in 1939 but by 1940 the Austrian presence was nearly gone.
.P In 1939 and 1940 the corps participated both in the Polish and French campaign before being sent to the Eastern Front in 1941.
.P From the start of Operation Barbarossa til a year later the corps was attached to the 6th Army. First objective was Kiev and then, during Operation Blau, Stalingrad. In the latter operation the XVII Infantry Korps held the northern flank on the Don section. When the rest of the 6th Army was trapped and destroyed this corps retreated to Mius, where it stayed until August of 1943.
.P From there and on it was retreating continuously, first over the River Bug, then to the Carpathians and then finally to Breslau after passing Hungary.
.P When Breslau fell, which was after the fall of Berlin, the corps surrendered together with the rest of the units in the destroyed city.
.H
.B Fronts: Poland, France, Russia, Rumania and Hungary
.B Decorations: 22 Knight Crosses and numerous Iron Crosses
==============

[image]local://upfiles/16701/D98F2742E2E2425C9F953E3603FE0762.jpg[/image]

Frankly, I would not have thought that this would come up as good as that, I really appreciate.
You know, playing with these counters since 15 years, you think you already know them intimately, but here you are adding a new dimension to my counters' knowledge in surimposing historical facts upon each one of them, and it is great !!!!



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 2:53:33 PM)

When you'll be at ARM units, you can also list the tanks models they used, and periods when they used them, and the number they have if known or of special interest.

You can also cite the first unit equipped with Tigers, Panthers, or else...., or that the unit used old models Panzer III up to 1945 or Panzer II up to 19??.

For the ART writups, you could explain the main weapon (featured in the name of the unit) characteritics, and its feats if any (lots of thing to say about the 88 mm AA dual purpose).



Greyshaft -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 3:09:49 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45)

I really like the use of Campaign names!!!

BTW, Grab has offered to help where needed. You might talk to him offline about the land unit writeups.





Plainian -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:06:11 PM)

Adding in names of known Division/Corps commanders might be interesting as part of the history write section. German Corps tended to be known by this name. eg XVII Korps on the Don River was Gen. Hollidt. IV Corps at Stalingrad was (von?) Schwedler?
Or it could be part of the section of the bottom ie Fronts/Decorations/Commanders.
I'm pretty sure I saw von Seydlitz mentioned in a write up of the doomed LI Corps at Stalingrad on another thread.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:41:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Plain Ian

Adding in names of known Division/Corps commanders might be interesting as part of the history write section. German Corps tended to be known by this name. eg XVII Korps on the Don River was Gen. Hollidt. IV Corps at Stalingrad was (von?) Schwedler?
Or it could be part of the section of the bottom ie Fronts/Decorations/Commanders.
I'm pretty sure I saw von Seydlitz mentioned in a write up of the doomed LI Corps at Stalingrad on another thread.


I had some feedback earlier that I focused too much towards the commanders so I removed it somewhat.

What I could do is to add a line after campaigns and decorations with most famous commander. Or I could even write a little story below about the most famous commander, some information on him and what happened to him. On the other hand...that will take quite some time.

As of now I do check the commanders in each Korps and if someone catches my eye as a famous person (judging subjectivly from my very own brand of ignorance) I will mention them. Of course this is not a very solid method.

Maybe the best course of action is to give the task back to you very knowledgable people that browse these forums. What if you would suggest a commander that should be mentioned when writing about a specific corps? For example like Plain Ian did with von Schedler and the IV corps.

What do you think?



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:43:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

When you'll be at ARM units, you can also list the tanks models they used, and periods when they used them, and the number they have if known or of special interest.

You can also cite the first unit equipped with Tigers, Panthers, or else...., or that the unit used old models Panzer III up to 1945 or Panzer II up to 19??.

For the ART writups, you could explain the main weapon (featured in the name of the unit) characteritics, and its feats if any (lots of thing to say about the 88 mm AA dual purpose).


I like it! I will definitly use your suggestion! I only have 8 more INFs to do so I will have to read up on my Tigers and Elephants. [:D]



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 4:44:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45)

I really like the use of Campaign names!!!

BTW, Grab has offered to help where needed. You might talk to him offline about the land unit writeups.


Great! I will send him a PM welcoming him to the brood. The more the merrier!



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 6:25:47 PM)

How do you guys like this?

[2494] [XXI Infantry Korps]
.T The XXI Infantry Korps was raised 1939 in Köningsberg (Wehrkreis I).
.P After playing a smaller part in the Polish campaign the corps was transferred first westwards to the German city of Trier and then from OKH-command to OKW-command. It was to be involved in the upcoming Operation Weserubung, the invasion of Denmark and Norway.
.P The composition of the corps was carefully planned by the World War 1 veteran General Von Falkenhorst, who had previous experience of fighting in Arctic conditions in Finland 20 years earlier.
.P When the operation was initiated the German forces consisted of several groups of the Kriegsmarine, some fighter squadrons from the Luftwaffe and the XXI Infantry Korps. The corps included five infantry divisions and the 3rd mountaineer division (which consisted mainly of Austrian Mountain troops). Of these six divisions only the latter had any combat experience.
.P The operation was a success and the Norwegians capitulated only two months after the fighting began.
.P In June 1941 the corps was renamed Norwegian Mountain corps and attacked from Petsamo in Finland towards Murmansk. The operation was a failure and a stalemate ensued until the Russians had gathered enough forces to counterattack. The corps was finally thrown back into Norway.
.P The Mountain corps (now called the XIX Mountain Korps) surrendered in May 1945.
.H
.B Campaigns: Fall Weiss (1939), Operation Weserübung (1940) and Operation Silberfuchs (1941)
.B Decorations: Unknown number of Knights Crosses, the full set of Army Narvik Shields and numerous Iron Crosses
.B Commander of renown: Eduard Dietl, who was a convinced Nazi, commanded the 3rd Mountaineer Division and was the first German to receive the honorary Oak Leaves attached to his Knights Cross.





Zorachus99 -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 6:46:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Greyshaft

quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan
Campaigns: Fall Weiss (39), Fall Gelb (40), Barbarossa (41), Zitadelle (43) and Kurland (44-45)

I really like the use of Campaign names!!!

BTW, Grab has offered to help where needed. You might talk to him offline about the land unit writeups.





I feel that I need more. Most people don't know what operation Fall Gelb was at a glance. Perhaps Location : Operation name?

Ex: Campaigns: Poland : Fall Weiss (39), France: Fall Gelb (40),...

It seems that I'd be actually willing to investigate what these campaign names when they have a sense of location. Of the 5 I only recognized 2 off-hand. I certainly wouln't automatically look up a lot of nomenclature, but if the location and name were there I'd be tempted into looking up the operation to learn more and compare it to history.

The downside would be that it could seem redundant at some point.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 6:50:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99
I feel that I need more. Most people don't know what operation Fall Gelb was at a glance. Perhaps Location : Operation name?

Ex: Campaigns: Poland : Fall Weiss (39), France: Fall Gelb (40),...

It seems that I'd be actually willing to investigate what these campaign names when they have a sense of location. Of the 5 I only recognized 2 off-hand. I certainly wouln't automatically look up a lot of nomenclature, but if the location and name were there I'd be tempted into looking up the operation to learn more and compare it to history.

The downside would be that it could seem redundant at some point.


You would like something like this?

Campaigns: Fall Weiss (Poland 1939), Fall Gelb (France 1940), Operation Barbarossa (Russia 1941), Operation Zitadelle (Russia 1943) and the Kurland Pocket (Lithuania 1944-45)



Zorachus99 -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 6:51:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

How do you guys like this?

[2494] [XXI Infantry Korps]
.T The XXI Infantry Korps was raised 1939 in Köningsberg (Wehrkreis I).
.P After playing a smaller part in the Polish campaign the corps was transferred first westwards to the German city of Trier and then from OKH-command to OKW-command. It was to be involved in the upcoming Operation Weserubung, the invasion of Denmark and Norway.
.P The composition of the corps was carefully planned by the World War 1 veteran General Von Falkenhorst, who had previous experience of fighting in Arctic conditions in Finland 20 years earlier.
.P When the operation was initiated the German forces consisted of several groups of the Kriegsmarine, some fighter squadrons from the Luftwaffe and the XXI Infantry Korps. The corps included five infantry divisions and the 3rd mountaineer division (which consisted mainly of Austrian Mountain troops). Of these six divisions only the latter had any combat experience.
.P The operation was a success and the Norwegians capitulated only two months after the fighting began.
.P In June 1941 the corps was renamed Norwegian Mountain corps and attacked from Petsamo in Finland towards Murmansk. The operation was a failure and a stalemate ensued until the Russians had gathered enough forces to counterattack. The corps was finally thrown back into Norway.
.P The Mountain corps (now called the XIX Mountain Korps) surrendered in May 1945.
.H
.B Campaigns: Fall Weiss (1939), Operation Weserübung (1940) and Operation Silberfuchs (1941)
.B Decorations: Unknown number of Knights Crosses, the full set of Army Narvik Shields and numerous Iron Crosses
.B Commander of renown: Eduard Dietl, who was a convinced Nazi, commanded the 3rd Mountaineer Division and was the first German to receive the honorary Oak Leaves attached to his Knights Cross.





Reading this makes me want to change it to type MTN [&:]

The writeup is excellent, it just seems to question Harry Rowlands classification of the unit.



jesperpehrson -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 7:01:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorachus99


quote:

ORIGINAL: capitan

How do you guys like this?

[2494] [XXI Infantry Korps]
.T The XXI Infantry Korps was raised 1939 in Köningsberg (Wehrkreis I).
.P After playing a smaller part in the Polish campaign the corps was transferred first westwards to the German city of Trier and then from OKH-command to OKW-command. It was to be involved in the upcoming Operation Weserubung, the invasion of Denmark and Norway.
.P The composition of the corps was carefully planned by the World War 1 veteran General Von Falkenhorst, who had previous experience of fighting in Arctic conditions in Finland 20 years earlier.
.P When the operation was initiated the German forces consisted of several groups of the Kriegsmarine, some fighter squadrons from the Luftwaffe and the XXI Infantry Korps. The corps included five infantry divisions and the 3rd mountaineer division (which consisted mainly of Austrian Mountain troops). Of these six divisions only the latter had any combat experience.
.P The operation was a success and the Norwegians capitulated only two months after the fighting began.
.P In June 1941 the corps was renamed Norwegian Mountain corps and attacked from Petsamo in Finland towards Murmansk. The operation was a failure and a stalemate ensued until the Russians had gathered enough forces to counterattack. The corps was finally thrown back into Norway.
.P The Mountain corps (now called the XIX Mountain Korps) surrendered in May 1945.
.H
.B Campaigns: Fall Weiss (1939), Operation Weserübung (1940) and Operation Silberfuchs (1941)
.B Decorations: Unknown number of Knights Crosses, the full set of Army Narvik Shields and numerous Iron Crosses
.B Commander of renown: Eduard Dietl, who was a convinced Nazi, commanded the 3rd Mountaineer Division and was the first German to receive the honorary Oak Leaves attached to his Knights Cross.





Reading this makes me want to change it to type MTN [&:]

The writeup is excellent, it just seems to question Harry Rowlands classification of the unit.



To be fair, the XXI corps existed only until 1941 and was 5/6 normal infantry divisions. I continued to follow it cause I figured it would be interesting for all of us.



Froonp -> RE: Ideas for Land Unit writeups (10/21/2006 7:06:18 PM)

quote:

You would like something like this?

Campaigns: Fall Weiss (Poland 1939), Fall Gelb (France 1940), Operation Barbarossa (Russia 1941), Operation Zitadelle (Russia 1943) and the Kurland Pocket (Lithuania 1944-45)

Great for my tastes !!!



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