Too much tech stealing? (Full Version)

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templeton -> Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 5:21:44 PM)

I've played a few games of this now, and am curious what people think about the tech-stealing.

As Germany I've tried to get a technological edge over my enemies, and have invested in tank and infantry research - however, despite having 26 points invested in spy protection - it seems that the minute I make a breakthrough, the Soviets and WAllies steal it from me...


Am I doing something wrong - it just seems that it is impossible to get a small technological edge, without it being stolen pretty quickly...


Is there an a-historical amount of tech stealing going on?



lvaces -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 6:22:18 PM)

I have this concern also.  It especially seems the Soviets go a little crazy in the early game stealing a bunch of stuff from everybody. 



christian brown -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 6:31:04 PM)

This has not been my experience to date (do you really have 26 on Security!?)  Typically, it is the German who profits from Japanese fighter speed, Heavy bomber Speed, torp value for subs and sometimes CAG attributes.  I invest heavily in spies as Russia and never have too much success with it.  Are you certain that the tech increases you see on the Russian side are from steals and not just plain old research?   Most Russian players will spend  as heavily (if not more) in INF and MECH attributes as the German.



Uncle_Joe -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 7:46:37 PM)

Something else to keep in mind is that when you get those reports of 'Tech Stealing', they are not getting to the same level you are, they are simply getting a point of research put into that category. That might anywere from 20% to 10% of the next actual tech level.



Forwarn45 -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 7:47:58 PM)

I haven't played enough to form a strong opinion yet. Initially, I thought there was a lot but it does vary. The big help is if two or more other countries have something better - you have a pretty good chance of increasing through steals over time. But one thing missing from the original game was the idea that once your opponent has something better in the battlefield - it becomes much easier to adapt and reverse-engineer to make similar improvements. I figure spies represent this effort as well as traditional cloak and dagger work.



templeton -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 10:53:24 PM)

Thanks for your comments guys...

Yep, I had sunk enough supply to get 26 security points. However, I may have been overly paranoid here - I've only played with FoW option, so have not really seen what the AI is investing in.

It had not occured to me to send German spies to Japan... but that is a good idea, since they research a different set of techs from the Germans and vice versa.


Ok - now that I understand the stolen research constitutes one point of research - and not the whole tech level.



Out of curiosity, which weapon advancements made by the Axis and Allies were due to tech stealing? Later in the war as the Allies started to get their hands on jets and advanced Submarines that is certainly the case, or the Soviet efforts to reverse engineer 'interned' Allied bombers and German technology.

Was there much of this early in the war?

I guess there is no way to mod the game so that is at a much reduced rate of tech-stealing between enemies, but it remains the same for 'allies'? Afterall, the Germans did share Jet plans with the Japanese.

I do, however, love the signals intelligence - so much of WW2 history was written and the 'story' established prior to the release of Ultra and Magic secrets - it's so good to see this vital area, some may say decisive, represented in the game.

However, given that I'm stil new to this, I over-invest in intelligence and find myself extremely short of supplies and units for the Axis by 1943... and my attempts with the Japanese are just horrific. The advanced supply rules do take some time to get used to...



Uncle_Joe -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 11:02:14 PM)

I think you could pretty much regard all of the 'one upping' of AFVs and aircraft as partially modeled by the 'tech stealing'. Germany and Russia went back and forth numerous times during the AFV race and the same happened with Germany and the WAllies in the air with Fighters.



templeton -> RE: Too much tech stealing? (10/28/2006 11:34:10 PM)

Good point... and in any cases the areas where the Germans were very far ahead were in such small numbers that they had a limited, if any, stategic impact.

I suppose it represents the technology available for mass production... despite the focus that the Panther and the Tiger get, the Panzer IV was the backbone of the Panzer forces for the majority of the war.

I do enjoy this game... I'm a frustrated A World at War player (GMT), who can only get people to play Axis and Allies... so this is a lovely half-way house!



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