RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (Full Version)

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Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/15/2008 8:10:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
The Swan River runs south of Perth, not north of it.  As you go upstream from Perth proper, it becomes the Avon River.

On the attached map, we see that it is inside Perth, and then it is north of it. The original map designer seemed to think that it was moe an obstacle to enter Perth from the north than to enter Perth from the south, and I think he was right. For the Avon, I'd add the name.

quote:

3 hexes SE of Mackay on the Queensland map is a hex with a crossing arrow to an island hex to its E.  That hex is where Airlie Beach & Shute Harbour are, and the island hex would contain Cid Harbour.  During WWII these were important marshalling areas and supply ports for the Australian and US Navies and should rate minor port status at least.  The significant town on the rail junction there is Proserpine.  The area is now a major tourist destination.

In fact, just South of the crossing arrow, I added the minor port of Rockhampton, as it is often present on WWII maps of the area. Isn't this port in Rockhampton representing the marshalling areas that you talk about ?
Also, I can't find neither Cid Harbour nor Proserpine on my maps. Is Cid Harbor on Curtis Island ? The small island in Keppel Bay ?

More later.


[image]local://upfiles/10447/DE60D43C4D3C42068D34A40DEB380DFF.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/15/2008 9:38:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
I concur with Christo's comments about the cliffs along the southern coast of Australia -- desert hexes along the Great Australian Bight.  I have sailed as well as driven this area, there are no landing points, the cliffs are up to 200ft high in some places.

Well, not much can be done here, there is no terrain in WiF that prevents invasions.

quote:

The unlabelled river that runs around the outside of the Sydney hex (yes it really does that) is the Hawkesbury / Nepean.  It was originally thought to be two separate rivers, one to the north and one to the west and south west, until some explorer discovered that they actually join up.

OK. I add the name.

quote:

I concur with the comment about Lakes Entrance in Victoria being a swamp hex.  It is quite a hazardous entry even for small boats.

Are you talking about the Victoria River, south of Darwin ?

quote:

I would discard the Ipswich river south of Brisbane, it is not a significant waterway (it's a small creek, really) which is why you're not finding it on maps.  The Brisbane River runs through the middle of Brisbane from the bay that is shown there (Moreton Bay) and should be placed on the NE hexside of the hex containing Brisbane, and then following the line that you have drawn for the Ipswich river.  It is navigable by shipping along some of its length.

Here, as for Perth, I think that the Brisbane river goes through the city, and that the designer decided that it would be represented as an obstacle to the entry in the city from the south and the east. From this map, I think that this is OK as it is. The scale of the map don't allow to place the Brisbane Mouth exactly where geography placed it.

quote:

Brisbane is not a significant port.  The approaches to it through Moreton Bay are fairly tricky, and it doesn't have a lot of deep water anchorage or channels.  The largest port in Queensland is Gladstone, which is in the mountain hex 2 hexes SE of Airlie Beach / Proserpine (mentioned above).

Here, we are locked in the WiF FE representation of the Area. The designers did put a major port plus supply source on a sea area border, this can't be changed as it has huges game play effects.

quote:

The largest port in NSW (and in fact the largest coal port in the world) is Newcastle, which is not marked on the map, but should be in the hex NE of Sydney.  This should contain a resource (coal) or possibly two, it has the world's largest coal deposit.

It has all that already. It is only a minor port though, as on the WiF FE map.

quote:

The largest port in Western Australia is Port Hedland, which is also not marked on the map.  It is approximately 4 or 5 hexes SW along the coast from Broome.  Perth is not a port, the nearby port is called Fremantle and it is not as large a port as Port Hedland because of the railway bridge which blocks access to the river (zoom in on these in google maps if you like).  I believe that the railway bridge at Fremantle predates the war.

I think we can add it, with its 2 hex railway inland.
It does not change the play in this area. It is not a supply source, as Brooome and Darwin, so add no vital base to Australia.
Steve, does adding Minor Ports pose a problem in regards to saved games or not ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/A1C69EB9DA5846D1BC520516E3868785.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/15/2008 9:57:49 PM)

I think we can add it, with its 2 hex railway inland.
It does not change the play in this area. It is not a supply source, as Brooome and Darwin, so add no vital base to Australia.
Steve, does adding Minor Ports pose a problem in regards to saved games or not ?

===================
I am pretty sure the answer is yes. But I am not certain. This would be easy for you to test.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 1:13:32 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Thank you for your review and comments on Australia.

I know nothing about the region and would only like to make two general comments:

1 - We need the cities, ports, and rail lines to be circa 1937 - 1945. And we struggle with how to handle those that had massive changes during that time period. It would be nice if you can reassure us that the changes you recommend reflect the situation at that time.

2 - Ports have been a problem for us previously. That is because WIF uses ports to simulate two distinct, and important, aspects of the war: (a) anchorages for military use by naval combat ships, and (b) overseas transportation links for resources and military materiel by the merchant marine. We have found that some ports perform only one of these functions. In game terms, making that distinction is not possible. The result is we do not have a firm and fast rule to go by, and decide each case individually - usually based on how it affects game play.


Well I maintain my claim about the ports of Newcastle and Jervis Bay. Newcastle is not, and has never been, at Port Stephens, and should be moved south to its correct location. It was in use as a significant naval port during WWII and was shelled by a Japanese submarine.

Port Hedland is a significant port but as you suggest did not have the rail infrastructure that it currently has until the 1950s. So it can probably be omitted. I know that it was in use as a shipping port during WWII but I'm not sure how much infrastructure it had nor whether it was in use very much during the war. Broome was in fact not in use as an allied port during the war because many residents of the town were Japanese (who had come for the pearling industry) and therefore considered unreliable. Apart from the fact that the town was bombed by the Japanese during the war, it provided no significant infrastructure -- remember that this entire section of coast from the Kimberlies down to Perth is in fact very dry and parched, your biggest supply problem for any naval activities is going to be the complete lack of water.

Jervis Bay is the RAN's main training base and has been since 1913.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 1:19:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

I concur with the comment about Lakes Entrance in Victoria being a swamp hex. It is quite a hazardous entry even for small boats.

Are you talking about the Victoria River, south of Darwin ?


No, Lakes Entrance in the state of Victoria, two hexes east of the Melbourne hex. amwild made this comment, which I agree with:

quote:

The Lakes Entrance hex (The forest/beach hex two to the east of Melbourne) needs to be swamp for reasons I posted earlier in this thread - because the lakes extend practically the full width of the hex's beach just a few hundred metres across the dunes from the beach. I've been there and seen it, and it would be a nightmare place to stage an invasion - you'd beach your landing craft, then immediately have to cross another body of water...


quote:


quote:

I would discard the Ipswich river south of Brisbane, it is not a significant waterway (it's a small creek, really) which is why you're not finding it on maps. The Brisbane River runs through the middle of Brisbane from the bay that is shown there (Moreton Bay) and should be placed on the NE hexside of the hex containing Brisbane, and then following the line that you have drawn for the Ipswich river. It is navigable by shipping along some of its length.

Here, as for Perth, I think that the Brisbane river goes through the city, and that the designer decided that it would be represented as an obstacle to the entry in the city from the south and the east. From this map, I think that this is OK as it is. The scale of the map don't allow to place the Brisbane Mouth exactly where geography placed it.


OK, I'll concur with this if the river you are representing is the Brisbane River. The mouth of the Brisbane river is actually north of the city but the river does a very big meandering loop around the south of the city.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 1:31:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
The Swan River runs south of Perth, not north of it. As you go upstream from Perth proper, it becomes the Avon River.

On the attached map, we see that it is inside Perth, and then it is north of it. The original map designer seemed to think that it was moe an obstacle to enter Perth from the north than to enter Perth from the south, and I think he was right. For the Avon, I'd add the name.


I disagree entirely. The main infrastructure in Perth, along with the army barracks (Karakatta), the city, the WWII era industrial areas, and the main settlement areas prior to the 1950s, are all north of the Swan river.

quote:


quote:

3 hexes SE of Mackay on the Queensland map is a hex with a crossing arrow to an island hex to its E. That hex is where Airlie Beach & Shute Harbour are, and the island hex would contain Cid Harbour. During WWII these were important marshalling areas and supply ports for the Australian and US Navies and should rate minor port status at least. The significant town on the rail junction there is Proserpine. The area is now a major tourist destination.

In fact, just South of the crossing arrow, I added the minor port of Rockhampton, as it is often present on WWII maps of the area. Isn't this port in Rockhampton representing the marshalling areas that you talk about ?

Also, I can't find neither Cid Harbour nor Proserpine on my maps. Is Cid Harbor on Curtis Island ? The small island in Keppel Bay ?


Rockhampton is a significant agricultural town, but not a port as it is inland. The coastal area to the east of Rockhampton is Shoalwater Bay which is a common tourist destination (and military practice area these days) but as evidenced by the name is very shallow and not useful as a port. To the south east of Rockhampton is Gladstone, which is a significant port.

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-23.548881,150.993347&spn=1.49053,1.532593&z=9

Proserpine is shown on this map. It is a small town at a railway junction, no more, I merely mentioned the name to indicate the name of the juction:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.306637,148.686905&spn=0.381229,0.383148&z=11

Cid Harbour is on the western side of Whitsunday Island, due east of Airlie Beach. Take a look at this map:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.2171,148.825607&spn=0.381449,0.383148&z=11

Cid Harbour is a natural offshore island harbour formed by the bay in the western side of Whitsunday Island and the smaller (unmarked on that map) bean shaped island to the west of that. A closer look at Cid Harbour itself is here:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.252857,148.932724&spn=0.095341,0.095787&t=p&z=13

It's not marked on that map, but any tourist map or cruising guide to the area (as I mentioned it's a very popular tourist zone) will show it. I only mentioned it because it has significant historical interest as a WWII marshalling area especially during the battle of the Coral Sea.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 1:54:22 AM)

As I lived in Christchurch, New Zealand, for 3 years I'll comment about that area too.

The rail line running north of Christchurch should extend to Picton, which is a small town on the other side of the Cook Strait (patch of water separating the North and South Islands of New Zealand) from Wellington. Basically the hex one hex W of Wellington.

Don't be tempted to put a crossing arrow between Wellington and Picton. This is the worst piece of water I have ever had the unpleasant experience to be in. It's full of shipwrecks and people die there even today.

Sorry if this disrupts game play, but Christchurch is not a port. The nearby port is Lyttleton, it's in the same hex as Christchurch but I'm not sure I'd rate it as a major port. There is a rail line between the two. Lyttleton harbour is significantly smaller and has less infrastructure than Wellington harbour and so I'm not sure why Lyttleton has major port status but Wellington does not.

There should be more alpine hexes in the South Island of NZ. Basically the east/west route is impassable up and down the length of the island, except at 4 points -- (a) north of where the northernmost (isolated) alpine hexside is, (b) Lewis Pass which is the rail line shown running West to Westport (it actually runs to Greymouth, perhaps in the hex south of Westport and then runs north to Westport from there), (c) Arthurs Pass, which is where you have marked "Pelennor Fields" (very funny), and (d) west and southwest of Dunedin.

Dunedin is populated by mad Scotsmen. Invercargill is populated by even more mad Scotsmen and is properly pronounced "Unvercarrrrrgul" (roll the "r"s).

"Snares Island" wtf? The island to the south of Invercargill is called Stewart Island.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 6:26:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

Rockhampton is a significant agricultural town, but not a port as it is inland. The coastal area to the east of Rockhampton is Shoalwater Bay which is a common tourist destination (and military practice area these days) but as evidenced by the name is very shallow and not useful as a port. To the south east of Rockhampton is Gladstone, which is a significant port.

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-23.548881,150.993347&spn=1.49053,1.532593&z=9



Sorry, of course I meant "Keppel Bay" not "Shoalwater Bay". Shoalwater Bay is to the north. Both Keppel Bay and Shoalwater Bay are very shallow harbours, not suitable for shipping (even smallish yachts can hit bottom there quite easily). Gladstone Harbour is deep water, and Gladstone is the significant port in the area. Rockhampton is a larger city, though, and served as a base for the 70,000 or so US troops stationed in the area during WWII. The two cities are on the same rail line, running north from Brisbane.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 11:47:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
Rockhampton is a significant agricultural town, but not a port as it is inland. The coastal area to the east of Rockhampton is Shoalwater Bay which is a common tourist destination (and military practice area these days) but as evidenced by the name is very shallow and not useful as a port. To the south east of Rockhampton is Gladstone, which is a significant port.

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-23.548881,150.993347&spn=1.49053,1.532593&z=9

Well, finally I think that I will remove simply the port in the Rockhampton hex, and just leave the name, as it is frequently present on WWII maps of the area, and on maps of games about the area, particulary Coral Sea battle base games, and this port is not present anyway on the original WiF FE maps and it was an addition of mine.

quote:

Proserpine is shown on this map. It is a small town at a railway junction, no more, I merely mentioned the name to indicate the name of the juction:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.306637,148.686905&spn=0.381229,0.383148&z=11

Cid Harbour is on the western side of Whitsunday Island, due east of Airlie Beach. Take a look at this map:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.2171,148.825607&spn=0.381449,0.383148&z=11

Cid Harbour is a natural offshore island harbour formed by the bay in the western side of Whitsunday Island and the smaller (unmarked on that map) bean shaped island to the west of that. A closer look at Cid Harbour itself is here:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-20.252857,148.932724&spn=0.095341,0.095787&t=p&z=13

It's not marked on that map, but any tourist map or cruising guide to the area (as I mentioned it's a very popular tourist zone) will show it. I only mentioned it because it has significant historical interest as a WWII marshalling area especially during the battle of the Coral Sea.

Maybe its like the natural harbor where the Japanese fleet assembled for the Pearl Harbor Raid, and there are no military installations ? To rate as a WiF FE port, a port not only have to have natural harbor capabilities, it also needs to be military fit, with airbases too as a port allows to stack more planes.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 11:51:17 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
Well I maintain my claim about the ports of Newcastle and Jervis Bay. Newcastle is not, and has never been, at Port Stephens, and should be moved south to its correct location. It was in use as a significant naval port during WWII and was shelled by a Japanese submarine.

I've changed Newcastle as you asked.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/C7577A9A79104E768520C582EDB5FB9A.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 11:55:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
Port Hedland is a significant port but as you suggest did not have the rail infrastructure that it currently has until the 1950s. So it can probably be omitted. I know that it was in use as a shipping port during WWII but I'm not sure how much infrastructure it had nor whether it was in use very much during the war. Broome was in fact not in use as an allied port during the war because many residents of the town were Japanese (who had come for the pearling industry) and therefore considered unreliable. Apart from the fact that the town was bombed by the Japanese during the war, it provided no significant infrastructure -- remember that this entire section of coast from the Kimberlies down to Perth is in fact very dry and parched, your biggest supply problem for any naval activities is going to be the complete lack of water.

I have added it like this :

[image]local://upfiles/10447/D3754C0428494E02A00D9C2D85012D9D.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 11:57:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel
"Snares Island" wtf? The island to the south of Invercargill is called Stewart Island.

I'll look at your comments about New Zealand tonight, I have our weekly WiF game to go now.

You must have had commented on a very old map. As for now southern New Zealand is like this :

[image]local://upfiles/10447/785244FD91514D7BA18BBAA5983B7F9F.jpg[/image]



marcuswatney -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/16/2008 4:49:38 PM)

I am concerned that so many recent posts are written in the present tense rather than the past.  There has been huge development in Australia since 1939.

As for size of ports, a lot can be told from the shipping lanes marked on the maps. Looking at my 1936 atlas I see the following number of shipping lanes (excluding local coastal services):

Perth: none
Freemantle: four
Derby: one
Darwin: one
Townsville: one
Brisbane: one
Syndey: nine
Melbourne: three
Adelaide: one

The coastal services called at: Fremantle, Geraldton, Carnavon, Onslow, Roebourne, (not Port Hedland), Broome, Derby, Wyndham, Darwin, Thursday Island (from where there was a service to Kimberley in the Gulf of Carpentaria, on the coast near Normanton), Townsville, Rockhampton (= Keppel Bay), Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide, Fremantle.

There wasn't a rail junction between Perth and Geraldton into the interior: rather there were two rail-lines parallel to the coast between the two cities, and the inland route went perpendicular from Geraldton.

Could you please also check the route of the Trans-Australian Railway, which looks too far north to me?  My map shows it varying between 300 km and 100 km of the coast (the latter at the state border).  



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 12:01:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: delatbabel

As I lived in Christchurch, New Zealand, for 3 years I'll comment about that area too.

The rail line running north of Christchurch should extend to Picton, which is a small town on the other side of the Cook Strait (patch of water separating the North and South Islands of New Zealand) from Wellington. Basically the hex one hex W of Wellington.

Well, on my 1935-1940 maps, the railway from Christchurch to Picton is not yet finished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wharanui also states that this railway was not finished before 1945. The Picton - Wharanui railway is all what existed north of Christchurch. At the scale the map is drawn, I can even say that both are in the same hex, so the railway is not drawn.

quote:

Sorry if this disrupts game play, but Christchurch is not a port. The nearby port is Lyttleton, it's in the same hex as Christchurch but I'm not sure I'd rate it as a major port. There is a rail line between the two. Lyttleton harbour is significantly smaller and has less infrastructure than Wellington harbour and so I'm not sure why Lyttleton has major port status but Wellington does not.

Well, I can downgrade Christchurch to a Minor Port status then. Christchurch is not on the WiF FE maps, not even on the Pacific scaled ones, sot this is an area that is entirely new, but I would like to be sure. As I haev no opinion nor knowledge of New Zealand, I tend to trust the original MWiF map designer who did a good job overall, believe me. When I'm in doubt, I leave the thing as it is.

quote:

There should be more alpine hexes in the South Island of NZ. Basically the east/west route is impassable up and down the length of the island, except at 4 points -- (a) north of where the northernmost (isolated) alpine hexside is, (b) Lewis Pass which is the rail line shown running West to Westport (it actually runs to Greymouth, perhaps in the hex south of Westport and then runs north to Westport from there), (c) Arthurs Pass, which is where you have marked "Pelennor Fields" (very funny), and (d) west and southwest of Dunedin.

A drawing would help, but remember that alpine hexsides can only exist between 2 mountain hexes.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 4:55:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
I've changed Newcastle as you asked.


Yes, that's much better.



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 5:06:08 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Well, on my 1935-1940 maps, the railway from Christchurch to Picton is not yet finished. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wharanui also states that this railway was not finished before 1945. The Picton - Wharanui railway is all what existed north of Christchurch. At the scale the map is drawn, I can even say that both are in the same hex, so the railway is not drawn.

Well, I can downgrade Christchurch to a Minor Port status then. Christchurch is not on the WiF FE maps, not even on the Pacific scaled ones, sot this is an area that is entirely new, but I would like to be sure. As I haev no opinion nor knowledge of New Zealand, I tend to trust the original MWiF map designer who did a good job overall, believe me. When I'm in doubt, I leave the thing as it is.

A drawing would help, but remember that alpine hexsides can only exist between 2 mountain hexes.



OK, that's new information for me about the railway. The signs around the railway station in Christchurch always speak about the line to Picton having been open since 1915 or whenever. The fact that it didn't run all the way to Picton without breaks is interesting, I'll have to check up on that.

Yes, Christchurch as a minor port would make more sense. As I mentioned, Christchurch is not a port at all, the nearby port at Lyttleton is about 20km away (yes, still in the same hex) but there was a rail and road link between the two. Neither Lyttleton nor Dunedin are major shipping ports, although the harbour at Dunedin is a fair size. Christchurch is not a large town or port in comparison to any of the European "major port" towns, and wouldn't have had the infrastructure to support a fleet. Not only that I think that Lyttleton Harbour may in fact be too small to take anything the size of an aircraft carrier, I haven't spent a lot of time there but my recollection is that there is very little in the way of turning room inside the harbour itself.

I'll look for an updated map of the NZ south island to mark additional alpine hexsides on. I note that the one most recently posted to this thread, which is what I was commenting on, is out of date (hence Snares vs Stewart Island). Where can I find a more recent one?



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 5:35:12 AM)

Some more recent screen shots of New Zealand.
North Island and surrounds.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/79B69C56F1504593AB5BEE4EE866E4DC.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 5:36:20 AM)

South Island and surrounds.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/9426D07F819A428296689A79A8267EBF.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 5:37:49 AM)

A slightly closer look at the North Island.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/CB1AE7E6EC8E408A8C961B445A94CB9F.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 5:39:25 AM)

4th and last in series. A closer look at the South Island.

[image]local://upfiles/16701/0A297FB00D15409E9F9376BA2CEFA7F8.jpg[/image]



delatbabel -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 6:23:53 AM)

My inclination would be to put alpine hexsides on the W, NW, and NE edges of the hex in which the word "Waimakariri" begins. I know that it's not possible to put one on the NW edge because that's an edge between a mountain and a forest hex (although I would be inclined to make the hex containing Westport a mountain hex, the coastal strip is quite narrow there and the general area is very mountainous).

That wouldn't be 100% accurate but would more closely represent the challenges facing anyone crossing between the W and E coasts of the South Island of New Zealand.

Google maps gives a good terrain shot, here:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-43.259206,171.471863&spn=1.226157,2.252197&t=p&z=9

That covers the terrain N and NE of Lake Tekapo. There is no way across there, unless you have your mountaineering boots on and a team of sherpas. North of that you get to the Lewis Pass, about where Maruia is marked on this map:

http://maps.google.com.au/?ie=UTF8&ll=-41.969701,172.54303&spn=1.25181,2.252197&t=p&z=9

North East of that again you have nothing, unless you go up the coast route to Blenheim and then across. From the north & west of Maruia Springs on the Lewis Pass you can cut inland towards Nelson and the top of the South Island, it's a difficult trail but not impassable. That essentially takes you into the Westport hex and out towards the north east again.

For interest's sake, the alpine hexside between lakes Pukaki and Tekapo contains Mount Cook, this is where you'll see a statue of Sir Edmund Hillary, he did a lot of climbing there both before and after his ascent of Everest.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 9:52:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A slightly closer look at the North Island.

Not close enough [:D].
Size 6 texts are not showing [:D].



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 10:52:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

A slightly closer look at the North Island.

Not close enough [:D].
Size 6 texts are not showing [:D].

It was zoom 5.



marcuswatney -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 2:39:22 PM)

Surely Auckland should be a two-front port?  I understood it was a major Allied base and rear-area logistics centre during the war, the assembly point for new divisions coming from the States.  Wasn't it from Auckland that the Guadalcanal campaign was launched and supplied?  So it is very odd that at present Auckland is on one sea zone only, but Wellington is on two (...and if the Wellington/Christchurch debate results in Wellington being upgraded to a major port, then Wellington will usurp Auckland's role in the war).

Or does that tiny little inlet on the southwest corner of Auckland's hex permit naval movement from the port to the west?




Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/18/2008 6:47:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
Surely Auckland should be a two-front port?  I understood it was a major Allied base and rear-area logistics centre during the war, the assembly point for new divisions coming from the States.  Wasn't it from Auckland that the Guadalcanal campaign was launched and supplied?  So it is very odd that at present Auckland is on one sea zone only, but Wellington is on two (...and if the Wellington/Christchurch debate results in Wellington being upgraded to a major port, then Wellington will usurp Auckland's role in the war).

Or does that tiny little inlet on the southwest corner of Auckland's hex permit naval movement from the port to the west?

Auckland is a port on 2 adjacent sea areas, Tasman Sea (to the west) and New Zeland Coast (to the east). The Port Graphic is draw on the east side, but ships can enter or leave that port from both sea areas.

In reality and as drawn on the MWiF map Auckland is on the east side, but the original WiF FE maps had it to the tip of the northern island, so it was visualy sat on both sea areas. So it has been setup as connected to both sea areas.

As a side note, the Wellington/Christchurch debate won't result in Wellington upgraded to Major Port. At best it will result in Christchurch being downgraded to Minor Port, but I won't touch Wellington.



marcuswatney -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/19/2008 1:37:25 AM)

The question of the (un)importance of the location of a port symbol in a hex has come up before, but I do think it remains an ambiguity where a hex has two coasts that don't link up in that hex.  Effectively, players are being asked to treat Auckland like Kiel, when there isn't actually a canal there at all.

There are two ways to make it less ambiguous.  One would be to re-draw the front-boundary so that it approaches via Great Barrier and touches Auckland's northern apex    Or ... the isthmus upon which Auckland is built is only ten kilometres wide, so perhaps redraw the hex to make the neck much more narrow and then shift the port symbol to where the city dot is presently, so it is equi-distant from each coastline.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/19/2008 2:38:45 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

The question of the (un)importance of the location of a port symbol in a hex has come up before, but I do think it remains an ambiguity where a hex has two coasts that don't link up in that hex.  Effectively, players are being asked to treat Auckland like Kiel, when there isn't actually a canal there at all.

There are two ways to make it less ambiguous.  One would be to re-draw the front-boundary so that it approaches via Great Barrier and touches Auckland's northern apex    Or ... the isthmus upon which Auckland is built is only ten kilometres wide, so perhaps redraw the hex to make the neck much more narrow and then shift the port symbol to where the city dot is presently, so it is equi-distant from each coastline.

Yes.

I think the city icon can be moved to position 9 or 0 and the port to 21 to accomplish this.



marcuswatney -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/21/2008 10:15:36 PM)

Do the Cocos appear? They were not important - just cable and meteorolical stations - but they were occasionally bombed by Betties.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/21/2008 11:12:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Do the Cocos appear? They were not important - just cable and meteorolical stations - but they were occasionally bombed by Betties.

Which Cocos ?
Those Cocos ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/B724E6B0C53F4D33878CCA168ADCD407.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (2/21/2008 11:13:53 PM)

Or this Coco ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/E16756EE485846E18314760A1C302EB3.jpg[/image]



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