RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (Full Version)

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Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/21/2008 1:18:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

Changing terrain types for later version of MWIF sounds reasonable. Beside coastal barrier reef we also have 'useless' atoll.

Yes.

quote:

If you want to change the Snowy river, the graphic does not have to be changed. Just remove the river hexside from COA. That way the CutUpBitmaps program will ignore the unwanted part of the river.

Not sure it is that simple. If I do that, it will not only remove it on the last hexside, but also on all the hex. Also I prefer not to change rivers except if strong evidences show that they are wrong, and they are a biggie. Here, I think it's neither (for the moment).

Ah, as it is drawn you are correct.



Norman42 -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/21/2008 5:48:20 AM)

quote:

but I'd welcome comments from as much people as possible (who know something about Rockhampton).


Not really sure on what Rockhampton's status should be, but I can say that every WW2 Pacific board game I've ever played had it shown as a port. Purely anecdotal input fwiw.



Mike Fisher -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/22/2008 4:11:43 AM)


i am not sure about the mountain hexes on the victoria river in northern australia, southwest of darwin.

the most inland mountain hex on the river should go, there are no mountains there; there are some low ranges in the next two hexes downstream, but according to my local relief map, less than 300m in height, so probably not warranting mountain hexes.




Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/22/2008 1:00:42 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Fisher
i am not sure about the mountain hexes on the victoria river in northern australia, southwest of darwin.

the most inland mountain hex on the river should go, there are no mountains there; there are some low ranges in the next two hexes downstream, but according to my local relief map, less than 300m in height, so probably not warranting mountain hexes.

I have some difficulties seen which hexes you talk about. Could you just edit a part of a published screenshots with rough marks and post it to help me understand ?



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/22/2008 1:04:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Fisher
i am not sure about the mountain hexes on the victoria river in northern australia, southwest of darwin.

the most inland mountain hex on the river should go, there are no mountains there; there are some low ranges in the next two hexes downstream, but according to my local relief map, less than 300m in height, so probably not warranting mountain hexes.

I'd just add that the WiF FE map has 4 mountain hexes here, and this is an area that was left as designed originaly in CWiF.
These are the King Leopold Range, that is it ?



Mike Fisher -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/24/2008 7:30:40 AM)


patrice

this picture shows the hexes i mean.

[image]http://www.photoaccess.org.au/files/vicriver.jpg[/image]

i suspect they should be clear. they are not the king leopold ranges - the king leopold ranges end to the west of the ord river. the two northerly marked hexes contain the pinkerton and stokes ranges, but they probably oughtn't count as mountains, they are too low.

your call - thanks for the opportunity to comment.

mike



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (3/24/2008 12:18:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Fisher
this picture shows the hexes i mean.

[image]http://www.photoaccess.org.au/files/vicriver.jpg[/image]

i suspect they should be clear. they are not the king leopold ranges - the king leopold ranges end to the west of the ord river. the two northerly marked hexes contain the pinkerton and stokes ranges, but they probably oughtn't count as mountains, they are too low.

your call - thanks for the opportunity to comment.

mike

OK, I'll do that.
Thanks for the drawing, this is what I needed.
(You can also embed pictures to the post in the forum, you're not obliged to upload them somewhere else before)



DaleKent -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/28/2010 1:27:12 AM)

Hi all. :)
Long time fan of WiF from playing the board version back in Uni (93-95). I knew ADG were working on a computer version, but didn't know till today that Matrix had picked it up (totally AWESOME BTW). Looking forward to this very much as my current friends think this type of hobby is the extreme in nerdish, so I need an AI to play against. [&o]

Anyways, I was born and bred in Sale, which is east of Melbourne, and currently live/work in Melbourne. I just wanted to offer some suggestions on the map for my home-town area. [:)]

On the map I uploaded, you'll see the following:
1. The red line indicates where the railway goes, the current one is too far north. The railway terminates in Sale (an important trade port). The railway is also critical as it supplied Melbourne and Portland with coal for industry and electricity.
2. The orange line heading north-north-west from the Lakes is the Mitchell River. The current one marked Mitchell is actually the Latrobe River.
3. The Latrobe River (marked Mitchell on the map) flows into the left lake of the Lakes (I've modified the map to show its path).
4. Melbourne and the port are on the north peak of Port Phillip Bay (I've moved them to where they should be).
5. Wilson's Promontory I've marked the outline in black. The current one is too small and "leans" to the right.

Hope this helps. :)

EDIT:
I'm also not sure about the swamp hex for Lakes Entrance. Yes, Lake Reeve is swampy, but in an invasion in that area it would only trouble the invaders for a day or two. On the hex the swampy region would only inhabit the couple of mm's between the coast and the two lakes. The rest of this hex, plus the hexes west to Melbourne are extremely fertile grasslands. They are South-East Australia's dairy cattle belt. I personally would probably say the hex is 95% grasslands and 5% swamp. From the coast it's a couple hundred metres of sand dunes, then Lake Reeve which is fairly narrow (no more than 500 metres across but stretching the length of the Lakes), then the Lakes, then fertile grasslands right up to the Great Dividing Range.

[image]local://upfiles/35218/E3D432B8045B4A53920C82EF22CE1CCC.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/28/2010 1:45:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent

Hi all. :)
Long time fan of WiF from playing the board version back in Uni (93-95). I knew ADG were working on a computer version, but didn't know till today that Matrix had picked it up (totally AWESOME BTW). Looking forward to this very much as my current friends think this type of hobby is the extreme in nerdish, so I need an AI to play against. [&o]

Anyways, I was born and bred in Sale, which is east of Melbourne, and currently live/work in Melbourne. I just wanted to offer some suggestions on the map for my home-town area. [:)]

On the map I uploaded, you'll see the following:
1. The red line indicates where the railway goes, the current one is too far north. The railway terminates in Sale (an important trade port). The railway is also critical as it supplied Melbourne and Portland with coal for industry and electricity.
2. The orange line heading north-north-west from the Lakes is the Mitchell River. The current one marked Mitchell is actually the Latrobe River.
3. The Latrobe River (marked Mitchell on the map) flows into the left lake of the Lakes (I've modified the map to show its path).
4. Melbourne and the port are on the north peak of Port Phillip Bay (I've moved them to where they should be).
5. Wilson's Promontory I've marked the outline in black. The current one is too small and "leans" to the right.

Hope this helps. :)


[image]local://upfiles/35218/E3D432B8045B4A53920C82EF22CE1CCC.jpg[/image]

Welcome to the forum![:)]

Terrain details within each hex are a bit too much to handle. Someone else commented on Melbourne and as you can tell from editing the hex, there isn't much room for compressing everything into the upper left corner. Just to let you know Australia isn't being picked on, we had a similar problem around New York City (and many other cities, as I am sure Patrice can agree). Patrice has overseen the map graphics and though he lives just outside Marseilles, that city also suffers from the lack of space for placing several icons.

The fundamental problem is that a hex represents ~90 KM across, so there is a lot that can be going on in a hex. I have assigned 25 points within each hex for placing icons (e.g., city, port, factory, resource). Those are the center, 12 outside edge o'clock positions and 12 inner o'clock positions. Only one icon can be assigned to each position and depending on the size of the icon, some positions are unavailable due to oclusion.

The rivers were all drawn freehand (by an Australia artist[:D]). My instructions to him were to not worry about precision in where the riverbeds run, but to make sure that the players could understand clearly when a river lies between two hexes.

Patrice will fix the name of the river as soon as he sees your post (thanks[&o]).

Keeping the terrain all within the one hex is probably why the SE tip is mutated - anyway, growing up on the New Jersy coast and living in Hawaii now, I know that beaches come and go[;)].



DaleKent -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/28/2010 1:55:49 AM)

Not a problem and thanks for replying. [:)]
Totally understand about the squeeze within the hexes and it does look really tight sitting there.
Just figured since everyone else was suggesting things I'd chime in too. If you (or Patrice) want other comments on Victoria just let me know. [:D]



Anendrue -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/28/2010 2:15:02 AM)

Welcome to the forums.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/29/2010 11:19:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent

Hi all. :)
Long time fan of WiF from playing the board version back in Uni (93-95). I knew ADG were working on a computer version, but didn't know till today that Matrix had picked it up (totally AWESOME BTW). Looking forward to this very much as my current friends think this type of hobby is the extreme in nerdish, so I need an AI to play against. [&o]

Anyways, I was born and bred in Sale, which is east of Melbourne, and currently live/work in Melbourne. I just wanted to offer some suggestions on the map for my home-town area. [:)]

On the map I uploaded, you'll see the following:
1. The red line indicates where the railway goes, the current one is too far north. The railway terminates in Sale (an important trade port). The railway is also critical as it supplied Melbourne and Portland with coal for industry and electricity.
2. The orange line heading north-north-west from the Lakes is the Mitchell River. The current one marked Mitchell is actually the Latrobe River.
3. The Latrobe River (marked Mitchell on the map) flows into the left lake of the Lakes (I've modified the map to show its path).
4. Melbourne and the port are on the north peak of Port Phillip Bay (I've moved them to where they should be).
5. Wilson's Promontory I've marked the outline in black. The current one is too small and "leans" to the right.

Hope this helps. :)

EDIT:
I'm also not sure about the swamp hex for Lakes Entrance. Yes, Lake Reeve is swampy, but in an invasion in that area it would only trouble the invaders for a day or two. On the hex the swampy region would only inhabit the couple of mm's between the coast and the two lakes. The rest of this hex, plus the hexes west to Melbourne are extremely fertile grasslands. They are South-East Australia's dairy cattle belt. I personally would probably say the hex is 95% grasslands and 5% swamp. From the coast it's a couple hundred metres of sand dunes, then Lake Reeve which is fairly narrow (no more than 500 metres across but stretching the length of the Lakes), then the Lakes, then fertile grasslands right up to the Great Dividing Range.

Thanks for the contribution.
As Steve said, there are things that we can't modify, and things we can.
I beleive I can do the following :

- Move the rail in 164,176 so that it is more southwards.
- Add name “Sale” at the end of the rail in 164,176.
- Rename Mitchell River as Latrobe River

You seems to mention that Sale was an important trade port.
- Do you mean that this was during WW2 ?
- Do you think that it is at least as large as Portland (4 hexes west fro Melbourne) ?
- What was sale's population during WW2 ?



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/29/2010 11:28:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent
EDIT:
I'm also not sure about the swamp hex for Lakes Entrance. Yes, Lake Reeve is swampy, but in an invasion in that area it would only trouble the invaders for a day or two. On the hex the swampy region would only inhabit the couple of mm's between the coast and the two lakes. The rest of this hex, plus the hexes west to Melbourne are extremely fertile grasslands. They are South-East Australia's dairy cattle belt. I personally would probably say the hex is 95% grasslands and 5% swamp. From the coast it's a couple hundred metres of sand dunes, then Lake Reeve which is fairly narrow (no more than 500 metres across but stretching the length of the Lakes), then the Lakes, then fertile grasslands right up to the Great Dividing Range.


Well, post #21 in this thread had this :

quote:

ORIGINAL: amwild
The Lakes Entrance hex (The forest/beach hex two to the east of Melbourne) needs to be swamp for reasons I posted earlier in this thread - because the lakes extend practically the full width of the hex's beach just a few hundred metres across the dunes from the beach. I've been there and seen it, and it would be a nightmare place to stage an invasion - you'd beach your landing craft, then immediately have to cross another body of water...

So we made it Swamp. It was forest initialy.



DaleKent -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/29/2010 12:29:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Thanks for the contribution.
As Steve said, there are things that we can't modify, and things we can.
I beleive I can do the following :

- Move the rail in 164,176 so that it is more southwards.
- Add name “Sale” at the end of the rail in 164,176.
- Rename Mitchell River as Latrobe River

You seems to mention that Sale was an important trade port.
- Do you mean that this was during WW2 ?
- Do you think that it is at least as large as Portland (4 hexes west fro Melbourne) ?
- What was sale's population during WW2 ?


Sounds awesome! Didn't expect Sale to get on the map, but thanks. :)

The Port was very important for eastern Victoria from 1890's. I wouldn't say it had any importance to the war, it was really just a trade port (canal boat traffic came up from Lakes Entrance bringing supplies and taking away meat and dairy products). Here's a nice flyer on the Port and it's history, but like I said, it shouldn't be a port in the game as it was a domestic port only. http://121.50.208.46/Wellington/discover%20Port%20of%20Sale.pdf

Portland in importance during the war would much outweigh Sale's port. An airforce base was established in Sale in 1941 for bomber command, but that's about it for war importance. The airforce base still operates as Officer and Navigation training, as well as the home of the Roulettes (airforce aerobatic squadron).

Population currently of 14,000, just under 10,000 during the war.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/30/2010 11:32:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Thanks for the contribution.
As Steve said, there are things that we can't modify, and things we can.
I beleive I can do the following :

- Move the rail in 164,176 so that it is more southwards.
- Add name “Sale” at the end of the rail in 164,176.
- Rename Mitchell River as Latrobe River

You seems to mention that Sale was an important trade port.
- Do you mean that this was during WW2 ?
- Do you think that it is at least as large as Portland (4 hexes west fro Melbourne) ?
- What was sale's population during WW2 ?


Sounds awesome! Didn't expect Sale to get on the map, but thanks. :)

The Port was very important for eastern Victoria from 1890's. I wouldn't say it had any importance to the war, it was really just a trade port (canal boat traffic came up from Lakes Entrance bringing supplies and taking away meat and dairy products). Here's a nice flyer on the Port and it's history, but like I said, it shouldn't be a port in the game as it was a domestic port only. http://121.50.208.46/Wellington/discover%20Port%20of%20Sale.pdf

Portland in importance during the war would much outweigh Sale's port. An airforce base was established in Sale in 1941 for bomber command, but that's about it for war importance. The airforce base still operates as Officer and Navigation training, as well as the home of the Roulettes (airforce aerobatic squadron).

Population currently of 14,000, just under 10,000 during the war.

Thanks. I drop the idea of making Sale a minor port, and I will simply write "Sale" at the end of the railway.

I like having names for railways end, it will allow discussions to be more easy. It is easier to say : Go to sale, rather than to say Go to the end of the railway that extends west from Melbourne.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/30/2010 6:44:03 PM)

It looks like that now.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/55A980B0A2A549C59C78FD322A8B75D6.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/30/2010 6:45:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
[image]local://upfiles/10447/55A980B0A2A549C59C78FD322A8B75D6.jpg[/image]

What would be the name of the River south of the Murrumbidgee ?



DaleKent -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (5/30/2010 7:19:22 PM)

Looks good.

That river is the Murray. It runs all the way to the coast near Adelaide. It defines the State border between Victoria and New South Wales.

The railway running from Melbourne to the south-west ends at Geelong.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/13/2010 4:07:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent
The railway running from Melbourne to the south-west ends at Geelong.

Are you sure of that ?
There are reasons it does not feel right.
First, Geelong is not in that hex, it is in the hex to the NW.
Next, here is a map of this area from 1944, that seems to show some railways going to "Forrest", and another non named location.
The MWiF hex where the railway stub arrives is about inthe circled area.
So, which name should I put at the end of that railway ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/05588098BB734C88BFED867EC158D581.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/13/2010 5:27:25 PM)

I played around with names in the Victoria State of Australia.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/42033567F78B4396B2AFB235A44C1CD3.jpg[/image]



Orm -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/13/2010 6:31:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

I played around with names in the Victoria State of Australia.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/42033567F78B4396B2AFB235A44C1CD3.jpg[/image]

I find it difficult to see which of the railroad crossings that are suppsed to be Ballarat. Would it be possible to place that name further to the right?

On your map it looks like the left railroad crossing might be Ararat. Perhaps replace Hamilton with Ararat?

Not that I have any idea on how it really is in this part of the world. I just look at the nice map Froonp found.



Froonp -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/13/2010 6:49:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm
I find it difficult to see which of the railroad crossings that are suppsed to be Ballarat. Would it be possible to place that name further to the right?

On your map it looks like the left railroad crossing might be Ararat. Perhaps replace Hamilton with Ararat?

Not that I have any idea on how it really is in this part of the world. I just look at the nice map Froonp found.

Well, in game it is easier to know what is where, because the game "knows" which hex is named Ballarat, Hamilton and Geelong.

Otherwise, for all the named locations that don't have an icon on the map, I always tryed to put them so that they are written immediately to the right of the imaginary icon that would mark the location's position, except when it would put the name in a difficult position like for Geelong here that would have been in the sea and obscuring the coastline.



BallyJ -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/14/2010 3:11:20 AM)

Just a question regarding all the non game chrome on the map.
Will it be possible to diable it to make the map less clutered.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/14/2010 4:25:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: BallyJ

Just a question regarding all the non game chrome on the map.
Will it be possible to diable it to make the map less clutered.


These small names that Patrice is adding do not appear unless the zoom level is 6 or higher. At zoom levels 1-5 the program automatically removes them (for the reason you gave).

Here is a little more information about drawing labels/names on the map. This is from my embedded comments in the code.
===
// Large labels (size 13 or more) are always shown. Smaller than that are not
// shown at zoom level 0. Large labels get a shadow, except at zoom level 0,
// when they are all made very large (size 30) and shown without shadows.
// If the hex has storm or blizzard, then shadows are added for labels that are
// difficult to see: during blizzard, black shadows are added for white labels
// while during storm, white labels are added for black and maroon labels.



BallyJ -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/14/2010 5:00:43 AM)

Thanks for the reply Steve.
I know some people like this stuff.
From my point off view it is just clutter.
Be nice if it could be removed with a press of a button.
Keep working on that mountain.
I will be a customer when it is finished.
best regards John



DaleKent -> RE: Australia & New Zealand Map (6/14/2010 12:21:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

ORIGINAL: DaleKent
The railway running from Melbourne to the south-west ends at Geelong.

Are you sure of that ?
There are reasons it does not feel right.
First, Geelong is not in that hex, it is in the hex to the NW.
Next, here is a map of this area from 1944, that seems to show some railways going to "Forrest", and another non named location.
The MWiF hex where the railway stub arrives is about inthe circled area.
So, which name should I put at the end of that railway ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/05588098BB734C88BFED867EC158D581.jpg[/image]


To be honest, I wouldn't bother with Forrest. It's a town of 120 (2006 census) that supplied timber via the rail head in those times. Railway was closed 1957. Leave it how you have it, looks good. :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forrest,_Victoria



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