An Australian Long Campaign? (Full Version)

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KG Erwin -> An Australian Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 1:11:12 AM)

Now THERE's a thought. Pick the Brits, and select only Australian units. Does that sound sound sporting, mates? I have some Aussie friends, so I should maybe give it a whirl.



FlashfyreSP -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 1:22:33 AM)

Give it a go, mate. I'm running one now with a British HQ and an all-Indian force, except for the armour (which is British, or course).



robot -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 4:35:09 PM)

In my long campaign battles I have selected a force consisting of 2 companys of Anzac and one company of Indian troops. They too have British armor like yours. The first battle I have with them begin in december of 1941. I am looking forward to fighting with this force against the Japanese. I have heard from my father that they are a very tough bunch of men and go hell bent for leather all the time in a battle. He fought along side a bunch of aussies in Lbyia during the II war.



Alby -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 5:09:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Now THERE's a thought. Pick the Brits, and select only ANZAC units. Does that sound sound sporting, mates? I have some Aussie friends, so I should maybe give it a whirl.

I thought you already started one??
[&:]



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 6:11:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Now THERE's a thought. Pick the Brits, and select only ANZAC units. Does that sound sound sporting, mates? I have some Aussie friends, so I should maybe give it a whirl.

I thought you already started one??
[&:]


Yes, Alby. I wrote this thread BEFORE I started the DAR.



Alby -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 6:12:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alby

quote:

ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

Now THERE's a thought. Pick the Brits, and select only ANZAC units. Does that sound sound sporting, mates? I have some Aussie friends, so I should maybe give it a whirl.

I thought you already started one??
[&:]


Yes, Alby. I wrote this thread BEFORE I started the DAR.


DOH!!!!!
[:o]



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 6:37:15 PM)

Honestly, I doubt if I'll get very far with the campaign, but it's a good example of the flexibility of the long campaign structure. The British template is a good one, and I suppose the German template would be fine for any of the Axis "minors".



Riun T -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/26/2006 8:02:24 PM)

Hopefully further than the 1/5 marines EH !,,,and start showing us some of the map after battle shots buddy, I wanna see where the AI leaves their stuff at the end of battle,it sort of lets me get a hypathetical guess at to what might have happened if the battle continued to the actual end or beyond.



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/27/2006 12:26:50 AM)

\
quote:

ORIGINAL: Riun T

Hopefully further than the 1/5 marines EH !,,,and start showing us some of the map after battle shots buddy, I wanna see where the AI leaves their stuff at the end of battle,it sort of lets me get a hypathetical guess at to what might have happened if the battle continued to the actual end or beyond.


You're right, man. We don't show the AFTER results of our battles. The enemy is frequently still there, in force, but with no central leadership. So, the game should continue. The mop-up is what is missing.

However, in game terms, all you're doing is adding experience points to your units by rounding up the enemy survivors. The possibility of a massacre rears its ugly head. Wouldn't be fair to allow this, now would it? It game terms, it would be murder, not combat. I, for one, will not condone atrocities. This possibility DOES exist in the game.

Let me take this to a different plane: can you be both a warrior and a humanitarian? Absolutely. That's a central value to ALL American soldiers/Marines/sailors.



azraelck -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/27/2006 3:41:57 AM)

Perhaps if the game engine allowed for more surrenders, but quite frankly I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen an enemy force surrender. Invariably, it's been minor nations in 8.x or late-war Germans. Japanese of course rarely surrendered; most would have rather committed  suicide than surrender themselves to the enemy. Many did.

Ususally, once I've reached the rear VHs, I don't advance anymore. I secure and strengthen my positions there; as those are the most distant objectives I was given for that assault/advance. Once those positions are established; I allow the enemy to either withdrawl, or make counter attacks. In a Defense, My forces remain rooted like trees; until I decide that it would be beneficial to reposition them for better effect or for safety's sake. Often I'm able to stop the enemy cold in their initial thrust, and the AI won't try to regroup and make a second thrust. My job isn't the utter death and destruction of the enemy forces; but to achieve whatever objectives set before me; be it the taking of a town; or holding the line. How I do it, isn't of importance, as long as I get it done.



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/28/2006 7:12:25 PM)

To broaden my background on ANZAC operations/TOEs, I'm gonna do some research on them.

Here's a great source to start with: "British and Dominion Forces 1939-41"

http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/017_britain/__uk.htm





FlashfyreSP -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/28/2006 9:11:44 PM)

Here's another:
http://www.regiments.org/



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (11/29/2006 12:00:47 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: FlashfyreSP

Here's another:
http://www.regiments.org/



Thanks, Flashfyre. I'll add that one to my favorites list.

Note: part of the above page is of particular interest to me. It is a listing of battalions and which theaters/battles they participated in. http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-conflicts-periods/ww2/pages-2aif-cmf/battle-honours.htm

So, in playing out a historical long campaign, I could choose which battalion I wanted to represent, and switch theaters within a reasonably historical timeline.

It appears that I could start as early as 1940 (North Africa), and switch in 1942 to the Pacific. I'm not sure how I'm gonna approach this, yet.

For this purpose, I may temporarily adopt a distinctive signature . I kinda like this battle flag, which is of the 28th Battalion, and prominently features the Southern Cross.


[image]local://upfiles/813/C1A9E1764C64456EA1CB4090368F57D3.gif[/image]



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/1/2006 7:19:13 AM)

The ANZAC Infantry Battalion, December 1940:

The thing that struck me about the basic infantry battalion is that it contained FOUR rifle companies. (4 Co HQ, 12 Plt HQ, 36 Rifle Sqd)

The other thing was the complete lack of medium MGs. WTF?

However, the support weapon attachments are these:

6 3-in Mortars
6 2-pdr ATGs (optional)
4 AAMGs
1 Pioneer Platoon
1 Carrier Platoon (optional)

To me, that seems like a crazy setup. The Aussies were preparing to refight WWI, but in truth, that's how they started out in North Africa.

Tank attachments, if any, were provided by the British forces.





FlashfyreSP -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/1/2006 4:42:59 PM)

Gunny
British force structures were based on the 'box' format, with 4 companies per battalion. The MGs were clustered in Machinegun Companies, which were regimental assets for the most part, at least in the early years of the war. These companies, and even their constituent platoons, would be parceled out to the rifle companies as needed, with the battalion or regimental commander determining where they were to go. Later, around 1943, these MG companies were disbanded and the MGs were incorporated into the Support Companies, including the mortars, ATGs, and AA guns.

The British and Commonwealth armies also operated under a program called "LOB", or "Left Out of Battle". This program was a direct result of the British experience in WWI, with its heavy losses in men. Basically, in each company a number of men were designated "LOB" and were sent to the rear, where they operated as a 'cadre' for that company, battalion, or regiment in the event their parent formation suffered casualties or was wiped out. These 'cadres' would then become cores of the new units.



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/2/2006 1:17:09 AM)

Thanks for that info, Flashfyre. From my limited research, it's become apparent that the British & Commonwealth forces offer many possibilities, but trying to narrow down specific equipment allocations for a given unit at a specific time is very difficult to pin down.

Even the Australian designations for their battalions was unique. To distinguish between the WWI units and their WWII equivalents, they append the designation 2/#. So, the re-established 1st Battalion in 1939 was called the "Second First". I wanted to recreate the 2/2, but it just sounds odd to refer to them as the "Second Second".

The "box" formation concept is also difficult to get my brain around. I am so used to the US "triangular" formation layouts, it requires a different mindset.

Nevertheless, the Brits/Commonwealth forces offer their own fascination for TOE students, and I commend you for your in-depth study , which is reflected in the Enhanced OOBs. I DO have a couple of minor quibbles, on which I will e-mail you privately.



pbhawkin1 -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/12/2006 6:15:59 AM)

KG,
Having served with the 2/40 (captured in Ambon Indonesia early in the fight to save Australia) and the 2/12 (both Tasmanian regiments), I think you will enjoy the variation to your favourite Gyrenes versus the Japs for Aussies versus the Japs!



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/12/2006 7:25:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pbhawkins

KG,
Having served with the 2/40 (captured in Ambon Indonesia early in the fight to save Australia) and the 2/12 (both Tasmanian regiments), I think you will enjoy the variation to your favourite Gyrenes versus the Japs for Aussies versus the Japs!


Thanks, Peter. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna work on a special customized ANZAC OOB, with ONLY Australian units. Maybe I'll call it "The Digger Mod".



vahauser -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 2:24:35 AM)

An ANZAC Long Campaign

I have chosen a 3,000-point core for an ANZAC Long Campaign. I will be changing my British HQ to an ANZAC unit within the first several battles (as soon as I have enough build points to do so). Further, I will only use ANZAC core units throughout the campaign. I reserve the right to use other nationalities as support units if they can be “historically” justified (per date and theater and location, etc.).

I chose a British Flag instead of an American Flag as my Nation HQ because choosing an American Flag means that you get American artillery response times. I chose the British Flag because British artillery response times are weaker than American.
Campaign Start Date = Sept 1940 (I chose this date because this was the earliest I could reasonably justify getting small ANZAC battlegroup into the war).

I am using Alby’s Enhanced PBEM/Long Campaign Mod.

SELF-IMPOSED LIMITS AND HANDICAPS
A. I am not allowed to use mines, barbed wire, or dragon’s teeth at any time in this campaign. The computer AI may freely do so.
B. Only the scattered mortar units that begin organic to my formations are allowed as on-map artillery throughout the campaign. I am allowed to upgrade these mortar units during the campaign to other mortars (including CS-mortars). No other on-map artillery is allowed (including support units). I am not allowed to buy any air strikes. I am allowed to buy off-map artillery with support points.
C. I am not allowed to use any airdrops.
D. I am not allowed to use any infiltration special operations.
E. During Delay Missions, I must withdraw all my units following Turn 21 of the mission. Note that due to Command/Control ON, my formations might have problems executing the withdrawal, but withdraw they must as soon as possible after Turn 21.

CORE COMPOSITION (3000 points)
1x LRDG Patrol
2x Inf Recon Troops
2x Type II(s) Tank Squadrons
3x Infantry Companies
1x Engineer Company
5x Forward Observer Groups (1 group per LRDG patrol vehicle)
2x 20mm AA Platoons
2x Morris Medium Truck Sections

PREFERENCES/SETTINGS: per the screenshot below.
I am using the FlashFyre Long Campaign Template with only two exceptions noted below.
Exceptions: I did NOT choose Reduced Squads and I did NOT choose Reduced Ammo because I am 100% convinced that these settings ALWAYS hurt the computer AI more than they hurt the human.





[image]local://upfiles/7691/6E994B87F8E74556BB64008C1597E41B.jpg[/image]



Alby -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 2:46:57 AM)

you gonna carry on a DAR up the dar section?
Might as well join the rest of us...[:)]
you never did say thanks for changing "historic ratings" button...
[;)]

[:D]



Riun T -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 5:01:02 AM)

I wouldn't mind that either,,I mean VA comming down off that mightyer than thou accusing others of slander,,, "ACCOUNTABILITY",, and KIBITZING,,,,, AND I'm gonna go look up the forum user agreement on another member and delete pages of posts ,,,,, ya this will be a real treat if he could leave his cheesegratter,terse,, know it all attitude out of it,,,,,, and maybe consider others feelings in a true "DEBATE" but we'll see. WHATS WRONG VA did u ware on everybodys nerves over at the depot,,, or the scenarios/campaigns slot here at SPWAW forums where your little buddy needed playtesters just this month?? ago ??? guess everybody wasn't holding u in the centre of attention and u figured u had to come back here to do another "heres the thing about long campaigns" topic interupt!!!!
Make him earn some respect,, and our attention ALBY,,, cause personally I don't like how he started his FORUMing



h_h_lightcap -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 7:23:20 AM)

Aussies---first to defeat the Japanese (New Guinea)...First to defeat the germans (Tobruk)---in a battle---------



hh



vahauser -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 4:55:11 PM)

Riun T,

I've been a member of this Forum since May 2000 (do a search on posts by "victorhauser" to verify this if you don't believe me).  I was one of the first to join the Matrix SPWAW Forum.  I've been "Foruming" here a lot longer than you have, so you don't have any idea how I started "foruming" here.

My suggestion to you is for you to do what azraelck did and put me on permanent ignore.  That would make us both happier I think.  It would certainly make ME happier.



Riun T -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 5:38:19 PM)

Spineless phsyco-babble,nice try sport,, notice something else about my posting record,,I've never gotten a repremand or foul mention or "warnings" of political content from admin's,,, never deleted anything I've posted and give full free access to members PMing me and haveing my personal REAL military background discussed,,, I don't try and CATIGORIZE anybody and dilligently try to respond to ALL the questions and rebukes in a calm, respectful,intelligent manor,,,, and would never insult someone by calling them kibitzers,,,or suggesting to anyone to put me on ignore,just because I'm too good to reasonably answer them.... WHY do u see me having the problem? with the way U seem to butt in to what ever thread has the most action whenever u want,spew all kinds of blasphamy, degradation and topic destortion,,,,THAT screams "I know better than lowly stupid U" and then run off to go bother other forumers and not continue what U interupted!!?? I originally said that u completeing a "WHOLE" campaign using your extreme challenge settings was a whopper of a brag,,,, u showed us 1 battle of a camp.,and then stopped.... grab some balls and complete the thing for ALL of us to see and then maybe I'll respect you enough to leave u alone
DO U UNDERSTAND!!!!![:@]



Alby -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 5:54:48 PM)

kib·itz (k[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]b[image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gif[/image][image]http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gif[/image]ts)intr.v. kib·itzed, kib·itz·ing, kib·itz·es Informal
1. To look on and offer unwanted, usually meddlesome advice to others.
2. To chat; converse.
[X(][X(][X(][X(]



vahauser -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 6:23:22 PM)

Riun T,

You are delusional if you think that I care about anything you say.  I don't care.  I am not interested in anything you have to say.  I told you that over a month ago, but apparently you weren't paying attention.  I didn't care then and I still don't care now.

I told you over a month ago that I would not give you anything further.  You will get nothing from me.  Nothing.  Ever.  Get it?

P.S.  Wait.  It occurs to me that you ARE getting something from me.  My total indifference.  You can have that.




Riun T -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 6:37:11 PM)

WHAt a polite,careing,,forethought answer from a longstanding RESPECTFUL, concerned for the feelings and impressions of other forumers{ new members benifit} catigory U are buddy.[8|]



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/13/2006 7:18:13 PM)

Ok, back on topic. Apart from the Australian Official History, which is an invaluable online resource, I had difficulty finding anything readily available about the Aussie experience in the Pacific during WWII.

However, the local library does have a copy of Eric Bergerud's "Touched With Fire", which covers the experience of war as fought by the Americans & Australians in the Solomons and New Guinea from 1942-44.

Given that my forte is the USMC in WWII, it's high time that I examined the PTO from a different perspective.



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/14/2006 2:03:13 AM)

Something else that's bothering me is -- when to start the campaign? I'm leaning towards January 1942, with the focus on the Pacific. I've noticed that in the 1942 battles there was NO armored support at all. Grants, Stuarts & Matildas started deploying to New Guinea in 1943.

So, I'm thinking of going ahead and buying a Carrier Platoon, for conversion into armor later.

One other thing I'm gonna do -- in Australian parlance, the PIAT is called the PITA (Projector, Infantry, Tank-Attack). Between these and the earlier Boys ATRs, this is basically the only anti-tank defense the Aussies had early on. (Remember, I'm speaking strictly of the PTO).

Note: dang, and I thought that the US Marines' TOEs were difficult to sort out. [X(]



KG Erwin -> RE: An Anzac Long Campaign? (12/14/2006 2:23:17 AM)

Here's a photo of the type of diggers that faced the Japanese in mid-1942. These are members of the 39th Battalion, a militia unit. The veteran desert regulars of the 6th and 7th Divisions had not yet arrived in theater. A motley-looking crew, indeed, but they proved to be tough as nails.

[image]local://upfiles/813/53607F40CDAC4AA3A42409A94993BF75.jpg[/image]



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