RE: Japan Map (Full Version)

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Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 2:06:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

Railroads in N. Honshu
I can't comment on the railroad to Ominato, there is one there now, not sure about 1940s. No railroad in 1922 though.

On the 1935 map I have, the railway is not draw up to Ominato, but it reaches Aomori (which seems to be a large port on the same body of water than Ominato). On the 1944 map, the railway goes up to Ominato.
However, it is here on the WiF FE maps, so it should be here on the MWiF map.

quote:

Based in 1922 info starting from north (changes only)
There should be a railroad between hex NW of Sendai and hex east of the hex (Railroad between Sakata and Ishinomaki)
There should be a railroad running from the hex SW of Sendai to hex west of Sendai, to hex NW. (connecting to railroad running between Sakata and Ishinomaki IRL this is the railroad running from Shinjo to Fukushima via Yamagata and Yonezawa)

This one is shown as you describe on a 1912 map, but it is not complete on the 1944 & 1935 maps I have. On both, it stops at Tendo. I should receive a 1937 map, I'll see what it says.

quote:

There should also be railroad running from Niigata to the coast two hex NE of Tokyo
There was no railroad connecting Niigata to hex NE (i.e. there should be a gap).

This railway stops at Murakami (not far, north of Niigata) on the 1935 map I have. But the line is completed up to the north of Honshu on the 1944 map. I'll see on the 1937 map.
As a note, Harry Rowland (original designer of WiF FE) based the WiF FE maps mainly on a 1935 map, so the rail stops at Niigata. From a game consistency point of view, I think we should make as you say, stop the rail at Niigata.

quote:

There should also be a railroad from hex E of Tokyo to hex NE of Tokyo to hex NW of Tokyo

I'm suspicious with this one. Not sure there is such a line that goes around Tokyo. To go by rail from NW or NE of Tokyo to SW of it, you can't go around Tokyo hex.

quote:

There should be a railroad from Tokyo running down the peninsular SE of Tokyo all the way to the tip

Right.



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 2:14:53 AM)

Looks like that.
The railway from SW of Niigata to Tokyo may disapear, as it is not on the 1935 map and not on the WiF FE map, only on the 1944 map. I'll see on the 1937 map.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/992A2DD483DC47B497A18CE6A83619C7.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 2:17:49 AM)

Also, seems from the maps that there should be railways extending into the forest hexes south of Yokohama & Nagoya.

Japan was really well covered by railways in the 40s, especially if you compare it to other Asian countries such as China for example. That's amazing !



SemperAugustus -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 3:26:23 AM)

Japan was industrialized and densely populated, so it would have made good economic sense at the time. The Japanese also used narrow gauge railroads to cut down on the costs of tunnelling, so the costs of construction might have been lower than elsewhere.



SemperAugustus -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 4:10:59 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Japan was really well covered by railways in the 40s, especially if you compare it to other Asian countries such as China for example. That's amazing !

India had quite a dense network too, at least in places

Is the Korea map up? I haven't seen it...


[image]local://upfiles/15119/B0182ED1CADF45728AD7FBE034EE3F3A.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 4:47:56 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SemperAugustus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Japan was really well covered by railways in the 40s, especially if you compare it to other Asian countries such as China for example. That's amazing !

India had quite a dense network too, at least in places

Is the Korea map up? I haven't seen it...


[image]local://upfiles/15119/B0182ED1CADF45728AD7FBE034EE3F3A.jpg[/image]

Post #3 of this thread shows all of Korea. India was done earlier too (different thread).



Mziln -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 4:49:38 AM)

Link to: Korea is post 3

Link to: India



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/5/2007 11:59:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mziln
Link to: Korea is post 3

This one links to the first drafts of my coastline drawings.

Korea as it is right now in the game is shown here Korea (this same thread) in post #3.



trees -> RE: Japan Map (1/7/2007 8:50:57 PM)

uh-oh, much of NW Korea isn't in supply any more.



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 12:14:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: trees

uh-oh, much of NW Korea isn't in supply any more.

You're right. Pyongyang (real WW2 name : Heijo, population 145k in 1935) and Seoul, used to put any troop on the northern Korean border in supply. Pyongyang was only usefull for TERR units though.
Unfortunately, no new city can be added in Korea (with 100k+ pop), to help here.
Well, Japanese troops can be on the Korean northern border and still be in supply, they just have to be on the border, so I suppose this is not too much of a problem.

There is the same problem in Manchuria. Harbin used to put in supply troops on the eastern and northern borders. In MWiF, this is no more. Troops can still be placed 4 hexes east of Harbin (to be in supply), and still not be very far from the Russian border (either on the border, or 1 hex from it), so here this is OK too for me.

On the north front, if a Japanese unit goes 4 hexes north of Harbin, it is still 2-3 hexes far from the Russian border. On WiF FE, Japanese units can be on the Russian border, hidden behind a river, on MWiF, they can't, and there's no more river (the Songhua was so wrongly placed on the WiF FE maps that it offered an extra protection for Japanese withdrawing from the northern russian border, now it is right north of Harbin, so Japanese troops need to be in Harbin to be protected by the Songhua river).

So, what should be done ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/E6425C856B914D8DAE57811BFAF945B0.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 12:34:07 AM)

Here is Manchuria's north and east parts. Nomonhan can barely be seen on the west.

Cities that could be added in Manchuria :
- Chilin (Kirin) (pop 100k in 1935, 143k in 1944), 1 hex E of Changchun, on the railway.
- Newchwang (Yingkow) (pop 106k in 1935), 1 hex SW of Mukden, on the coast, as a minor port too.

But they would be of not much help in the north.

Also, I see that Harbin used to put units in supply in the Nomonhan arae too. In MWiF, a unit 4 hexes west of Harbin would only be 4 hexes far from the Mongolian border.

Any comment, or advice here ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/0D60926166AE40E380A0B64B398F804D.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 12:37:09 AM)

Here is how the whole lot was in WiF FE, with the pacific scaled hexes.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/27083BC593AA44E0A8879862A6CE1DA6.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 12:40:28 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp
Cities that could be added in Manchuria :
- Chilin (Kirin) (pop 100k in 1935, 143k in 1944), 1 hex E of Changchun, on the railway.
- Newchwang (Yingkow) (pop 106k in 1935), 1 hex SW of Mukden, on the coast, as a minor port too.

The addition of Kirin would solve the supply problem in northern Korean and in eastern Manchuria, for Manchurian TERR. This would be a good addition in my opinion.



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 2:47:33 AM)


I posted this earlier on the russia thread. QiQihar = Tsitsihar(the resource on the map)

On the Manchurian side, I don't know how we missed Qiqihar in the previous discussion. Yes, it will change game balance somewhat, but it was militarily important historically, and was founded in 1691. It probably had the required size you'd expect for a mWif city? (I didn't find any 1940 population numbers, but current population is 900 000. That might not tell the wholde story, nearby Daqing has more than 2 million people today, but was founded as late as 1959).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiqihar

I'd also consider one of Yichun/Hegang/Jiamusi/Shuangyashan for inclusion. These are a cluster of 100 000+ cities halfway between Harbin and Kabarovsk.
Thay are outside the rail system but would allow some operations by manchurian territorials. Probably way to small for inclusion, but it would be fun with a few more cities in this area. 10-20 hexes between each city just isn't fun, and there ARE people living in this part of the world. As long as no production is added, a few more cities which glorious capture can be written about in Pravda just can't be bad...



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/8/2007 2:51:13 AM)

I found this excellent wikipedia article on Manchuckuo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo

Population of main cities:
Yingkow (119,000 or 180,871 in 1940)
Mukden (339,000 or 1,135,801 in 1940)
Hsinking or Changchung (126,000 or 544,202 in 1940)
Harbin (405,000 or 661,948 in 1940)
Dairen (400,000 or 555,562 in 1939)
Antung (92,000 or 315,242 in 1940)
Kirin (119,000 or 173,624 in 1940)
Tsitsihar (75,000 in 1940)

Based on this map, we missed quite a bit of railroad in manchuria too:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Manchukuo.jpg



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 12:35:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
Based on this map, we missed quite a bit of railroad in manchuria too:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Manchukuo.jpg

Good map, too bad I do not understand the writings.

Helped with this map, and with another one from 1930 that I have, I've modified some railway lines in Manchuria, and moved Mukden 1 hex E to where it was.

Here is view of southern Manchuria as of today.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
I found this excellent wikipedia article on Manchuckuo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchukuo

Population of main cities:
Yingkow (119,000 or 180,871 in 1940)
Mukden (339,000 or 1,135,801 in 1940)
Hsinking or Changchung (126,000 or 544,202 in 1940)
Harbin (405,000 or 661,948 in 1940)
Dairen (400,000 or 555,562 in 1939)
Antung (92,000 or 315,242 in 1940)
Kirin (119,000 or 173,624 in 1940)
Tsitsihar (75,000 in 1940)

I've looked at all those cities.
Mukden, Changchung (Hsinking), Harbin, Dairen (Port Arthur) are already on the map.
Yingkow is situated on the Southern shore of Manchuria, west of the resource.
Antung is on the Korean border and on the sea shore too.
Only Kirin is situated at a place where it provide some wanted game effect. So I added it, as a try.
Tsitsihar could be added, it would provide a wanted game effect (providing supply to Manchurian troops to the north and to the west). I did not place it yet, as its position is already written on the map (the resource west of Harbin).
So, Opinions about that ?
Do you agree with Kirin addition ?
Would you agree with Tsitsihar addition ?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
On the Manchurian side, I don't know how we missed Qiqihar in the previous discussion. Yes, it will change game balance somewhat, but it was militarily important historically, and was founded in 1691. It probably had the required size you'd expect for a mWif city? (I didn't find any 1940 population numbers, but current population is 900 000. That might not tell the wholde story, nearby Daqing has more than 2 million people today, but was founded as late as 1959).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qiqihar

I'd also consider one of Yichun/Hegang/Jiamusi/Shuangyashan for inclusion. These are a cluster of 100 000+ cities halfway between Harbin and Kabarovsk.
Thay are outside the rail system but would allow some operations by manchurian territorials. Probably way to small for inclusion, but it would be fun with a few more cities in this area. 10-20 hexes between each city just isn't fun, and there ARE people living in this part of the world. As long as no production is added, a few more cities which glorious capture can be written about in Pravda just can't be bad...


About thoss cities that you propose to add (Yichun / Hegang / Jiamusi / Shuangyashan) halfway between Harbin and Kabarovsk, I do not find any of them on the Collier 1935 Atlas, nor on the 1930 Manchuria map I have found on the Web. Where would be placed ? Are their population reaching 100k when adding them all ? Where did you found info about them ?

[image]local://upfiles/10447/559D3839997043C6B128E44BF6268816.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 12:43:37 AM)

Here is the north of Manchuria.

Frankly, I think that the addition of Kirin and Tsitsihar should be suffficient. They allow good supply toward the Russian border around Vlad, and fair supply toward the north (Blagovyeshchensk) and the west (Nomonhan).

Adding more cities toward Khabarovsk seems less needed to me, as in WiF FE this area is also far from supply (see post #102). Units walking 4 hexes from Harbin manage to reach the swamps that block the way toward Khabarovsk, as on the WiF FE map.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/1B2FB990811B435CA2ED8402BC93DA0B.jpg[/image]



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 2:33:33 AM)

I like the Kirin addition, but I am not so sure about Tsitsihar, because of it's smaller population. Are there any larger cities thereabouts?



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 5:16:55 AM)

From wikipedia:

Qiqihar is one of the oldest cities in the northeast of China and was founded in 1691. From 1931 until 1945 it was an important military base for the Japanese control of northeastern China.

A major mustard gas tank leftover from the Second Sino-Japanese War buried underground was accidentally damaged in 2003. It caused major injuries and one death.

The population is about 5.611 million, where 883,550 (January 1, 2005) people live in the city.


http://encarta.msn.com/map_701512132/Manchuria.html
shows qiqihar to be a quite heavily populeted area today. Nearby Daqing (to the SE) has more than a million people, but was founded as late as 1959. There is also Hulan Ergi just across the river (283 000 in 2004).



As for Yichun / Hegang / Jiamusi / Shuangyashan, they lie in the Songhua river valley midway between Harbin and Khabarovsk. The encarta map above shows them well. I have no idea how large they were in 1940.


Some comments for the rail:
-the appendix 5 hexes west of harbin should extend further towards Manchuria?
-The link from the resource 2 N of Peking and eastwards doesn't seem to be historical, should remove 2 central mountain hexes?
-Missing link from hex E of Kirin Nortwards toward Harbin
-Vlad area seems wrongly connected, rail should connect directly to Vlad, then go from Vlad to resource (that maybe should be east, not NW of Vlad?)
-Vlad is actually slightly west of lake Kanka in reality, I think there is a problem with map here?
-missing extension of rail on Manchurian side near Vlad, almost up to lake Khanka



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 9:50:22 PM)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/68/Manchukuo.jpg
Can someone tell me from which date is this map from ? Wosung ?
The railways appearing on this one are slightly longer (for the unfinished bits) than those on my 1930 map.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy
As for Yichun / Hegang / Jiamusi / Shuangyashan, they lie in the Songhua river valley midway between Harbin and Khabarovsk. The encarta map above shows them well. I have no idea how large they were in 1940.

Frankly, this whole area seems sparsely inhabitated, I think that we should live it as is. As I said in post #107 "Adding more cities toward Khabarovsk seems less needed to me, as in WiF FE this area is also far from supply (see post #102). Units walking 4 hexes from Harbin manage to reach the swamps that block the way toward Khabarovsk, as on the WiF FE map. "

quote:

Some comments for the rail:
-the appendix 5 hexes west of harbin should extend further towards Manchuria?

Depends on what date is the map from.

quote:

-The link from the resource 2 N of Peking and eastwards doesn't seem to be historical, should remove 2 central mountain hexes?

No, its not, my 1935 China map has it.

quote:

-Missing link from hex E of Kirin Nortwards toward Harbin

Added.

quote:

-Vlad area seems wrongly connected, rail should connect directly to Vlad, then go from Vlad to resource (that maybe should be east, not NW of Vlad?)

Corrected.

quote:

-Vlad is actually slightly west of lake Kanka in reality, I think there is a problem with map here?

If there is one it is very minor.

quote:

-missing extension of rail on Manchurian side near Vlad, almost up to lake Khanka

Added.

[image]local://upfiles/10447/8050C664106C455099F2DBF526113A41.jpg[/image]



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/9/2007 11:35:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

I like the Kirin addition, but I am not so sure about Tsitsihar, because of it's smaller population. Are there any larger cities thereabouts?


Good you like Kirin.

Seems that Tsitsihar is the greatest settlement in the area.
I think that this is a good place to put an extra city in Manchuria.
Tsitsihar and Kirin would be 2 extra cities, and Komsomolsk & Ulan-Due makes 2 extra cities in Siberia, we can say this would be even.

I would love to hear Wosung comment on this.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 1:25:05 AM)

ok



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 3:44:35 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

quote:

-Vlad is actually slightly west of lake Kanka in reality, I think there is a problem with map here?

If there is one it is very minor.



If you look at this map, I think it's clearer what I intend to say:
http://www.dalintourist.ru/img/map/map-g3.jpg

Compare that to
[image]local://upfiles/10447/E6425C856B914D8DAE57811BFAF945B0.jpg[/image]

In real life, Vlad is very near the Manchurian border, and there's not that much defensive terrain in front of the city either.
On the MWif map, Russia has a full 2 hexrows west of Vlad, complete with a very nice mountain line.
(Contrast that with WiFFE, where Japan starts with 2 hexes on Vlad)

Not sure how to best fix this, my best shout would probably be to move Vlad 1 hex west, and make the border hex NW of new into clear. The coastline might also need adjusting (maybe change hexside west of vlad into all-sea).

Btw, I'd also support making Vlad adjacent to fewer hexes (I'ts at the tip of a long, thin peninsula, yet it has 3 hexsides!!) but that would be a deviaion from how things work in WiFFE



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 3:59:52 AM)

Actually, on second thought, another solution (that doesn't reqire bitmaps to be changed!!) would be to move Lake Kanka 1 hex east, plus also move the border 1 hex east (making the 3 noncoastal mountain hexes in russia Manchurain).
Some terrain could also be changed, say making the southernmost swamp hex (that would now be west of lanke Khanka) into mountain.
The hex west of Vlad could also be made mountain



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 6:08:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Actually, on second thought, another solution (that doesn't reqire bitmaps to be changed!!) would be to move Lake Kanka 1 hex east, plus also move the border 1 hex east (making the 3 noncoastal mountain hexes in russia Manchurain).
Some terrain could also be changed, say making the southernmost swamp hex (that would now be west of lanke Khanka) into mountain.
The hex west of Vlad could also be made mountain


For these questions I always like to go back to general principles/philosophy about what we are doing. What are the criteria we should use to decide which of several different possiblities is best? If we do not have that criteria well defined, then we should do that first. Once that is in place, we can evaluate the different choices rather easily - it also helps prevent the discussion from turning into an argument.

Part of the criteria (as I understand it) are:

1 - true to geology and geography (e,g., terrain type and city placement)
2 - true to history (e.g., political boundaries and rail lines)
3 - true to WIF FE.

Perhaps there are more? Or subdivisions within these? We also need to set a priority order for the list to deal with when they are in conflict.

---
You are right, I do not want to redo the coastlines. Changing the terrain or country borders is easy, but modifying the bitmaps would be unpleasant.
---
Each hex is 90-100 kilometers, so though a city might be at the tip of a peninsula, the hex itself might not be. We had this problem with the terrain around New York City, for example.



Incy -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 6:44:19 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets


quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Actually, on second thought, another solution (that doesn't reqire bitmaps to be changed!!) would be to move Lake Kanka 1 hex east, plus also move the border 1 hex east (making the 3 noncoastal mountain hexes in russia Manchurain).
Some terrain could also be changed, say making the southernmost swamp hex (that would now be west of lanke Khanka) into mountain.
The hex west of Vlad could also be made mountain


For these questions I always like to go back to general principles/philosophy about what we are doing. What are the criteria we should use to decide which of several different possiblities is best? If we do not have that criteria well defined, then we should do that first. Once that is in place, we can evaluate the different choices rather easily - it also helps prevent the discussion from turning into an argument.

Part of the criteria (as I understand it) are:

1 - true to geology and geography (e,g., terrain type and city placement)
2 - true to history (e.g., political boundaries and rail lines)
3 - true to WIF FE.

Perhaps there are more? Or subdivisions within these? We also need to set a priority order for the list to deal with when they are in conflict.

---
You are right, I do not want to redo the coastlines. Changing the terrain or country borders is easy, but modifying the bitmaps would be unpleasant.
---
Each hex is 90-100 kilometers, so though a city might be at the tip of a peninsula, the hex itself might not be. We had this problem with the terrain around New York City, for example.


4 - good for game balance/playability (supply considerations, etc)



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 9:47:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Incy

Actually, on second thought, another solution (that doesn't reqire bitmaps to be changed!!) would be to move Lake Kanka 1 hex east, plus also move the border 1 hex east (making the 3 noncoastal mountain hexes in russia Manchurain).
Some terrain could also be changed, say making the southernmost swamp hex (that would now be west of lanke Khanka) into mountain.
The hex west of Vlad could also be made mountain


For these questions I always like to go back to general principles/philosophy about what we are doing. What are the criteria we should use to decide which of several different possiblities is best? If we do not have that criteria well defined, then we should do that first. Once that is in place, we can evaluate the different choices rather easily - it also helps prevent the discussion from turning into an argument.

Part of the criteria (as I understand it) are:

1 - true to geology and geography (e,g., terrain type and city placement)
2 - true to history (e.g., political boundaries and rail lines)
3 - true to WIF FE.

Perhaps there are more? Or subdivisions within these? We also need to set a priority order for the list to deal with when they are in conflict.

---
You are right, I do not want to redo the coastlines. Changing the terrain or country borders is easy, but modifying the bitmaps would be unpleasant.
---
Each hex is 90-100 kilometers, so though a city might be at the tip of a peninsula, the hex itself might not be. We had this problem with the terrain around New York City, for example.


4 - good for game balance/playability (supply considerations, etc)

Which is imbedded in point 3 above IMO.

About the map you shown, it's true that there is some shift in the vertical alignement of Vlad & Lake Khanka, but now that the coastlines have been drawn by the graphic artist, it would be hard to change them. But I for one can live with this misalignement of the city and the lake.

On the other hand, you say that Vlad do not have defensive terrain but I do not agree. Your map show a good amount of brown terrain on the Manchu border (where "Vla" is written for instance). This brown terrain cannot be represented by less than 1 hexrow on our map, so I think that our map is pretty well representing the military difficulties of a Japanese agressor trying to enter Russia here. There are a bunch of mountains to cross.

The only thing that I see that could be done would be to change the mountain hex that is on the southern tip of the lake into a clear terrain hex, to represent the "hole" in the brown terrain that you see on the map you shown (around Ussuriysk -- Voroshilov during WW2), but I'd need to chack other maps to be sure that this hole really is a hole of clear terrain. This would also be a way to restore a bit of the original WiF FE situation that had Vlad in a clear hex, without russian mountain hexes to defend it, so it would be a way to go to have the map closer to WiF FE. I think I'll do that. Opinions ?

As for having 2 hexes on Vlad from the start, it's even 3 hexes, and its true that there is a departure from WiF FE, but how do this differently with the scale change ? Vlad is not on the border, so we can't change that. There is a tongue of russian territoty, which seem to be mountain, between Manchuria & Vlad.
But generaly the Vlad area is only defended by a couple of units in Vlad, and advancing to Vlad should not be a great difficulty for the Japanese, for whom all coastal terrain in 1939-1941 is granted.
That's why I summed it all previously in saying that I thought that this issue was not a big worry.



Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 11:25:01 AM)

At this point I would like to see a new picture with the proposed changes. I am uncertain what the current suggestions would look like.



Froonp -> RE: Japan Map (1/10/2007 2:46:17 PM)

quote:

The only thing that I see that could be done would be to change the mountain hex that is on the southern tip of the lake into a clear terrain hex, to represent the "hole" in the brown terrain that you see on the map you shown (around Ussuriysk -- Voroshilov during WW2), but I'd need to chack other maps to be sure that this hole really is a hole of clear terrain. This would also be a way to restore a bit of the original WiF FE situation that had Vlad in a clear hex, without russian mountain hexes to defend it, so it would be a way to go to have the map closer to WiF FE. I think I'll do that. Opinions ?


quote:

At this point I would like to see a new picture with the proposed changes. I am uncertain what the current suggestions would look like.


What I suggested (above), is best shown on this picture.
(with the modified railways -- already done -- around Vlad)

[image]local://upfiles/10447/3F782DD9167942C98DB4DD44DA3C41E5.jpg[/image]



trees -> RE: Japan Map (1/11/2007 2:23:21 AM)

maybe an elevation minimum could be set for mountain hexes? I thought in places in China areas of 'hills' were sometimes represented by a forest hex rather than a full mountain?




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